LAL/MEM/MIA - could do it the sneaky way

[nykballa2k4]

Premise is that Lakers want Wiggins, don't want to pay that price, but also sort-of like KCP.

Griz trade KCP, Konchar, worst of ORL/MEM 2026 (so they still keep the best pick) for Wiggins.
Wiggins basically is a lesser mans Bane, has won a ring, and overall this deal doesn't break the bank. Wiggins can easily step into the 3rd guy role, provide a reliable ~20 points and play good defense. really a no-brainer trade. Why hope KCP turns it around when for 1 FRP you can get exactly what you need?

Heat trade Wiggins, get KCP, Konchar, and a 2026 FRP. Immediately flip KCP, Konchar for Rui and Kleber
Rationale: Riley has said the price for Wiggins is an immediately useful player and a FRP. This satisfies that. Rui fills a role in the front-court, adds to the team depth. Kleber probably is bought out, but also could be held onto for future trades. Kleber+Rozier = 35ish M, so they could use draft assets and this salary fodder for a big fish later on or mid-season. Trae young is my player to watch for Miami.


Lakers trade Rui, Kleber and get Konchar, KCP
Even with SlimDoncic, defense will be a problem. KCP could be an answer. Konchar adds further shooting depth, he is playable.
Follow up move would/should be K4 for 2 SRP

[JB2]

For LA, it creates a redundancy of guards and further exasperates their need for a wings and to a lesser extent, size.

Luka, AR, KCP, Smart, Gabe, Konchar, Bronny
LeBron, Vando, Laravia, Knecht, Adou
Ayton, Hayes

Value wise, is the cost of KCP really Rui? I like KCP to LA but feels like an overpay while also creating another major hole.

[nykballa2k4]

For LA, it creates a redundancy of guards and further exasperates their need for a wings and to a lesser extent, size.

Luka, AR, KCP, Smart, Gabe, Konchar, Bronny
LeBron, Vando, Laravia, Knecht, Adou
Ayton, Hayes

Value wise, is the cost of KCP really Rui? I like KCP to LA but feels like an overpay while also creating another major hole.

I think filling the DFS role is a bigger need than Rui at the back-up 4 at the moment. KCP is a gamble, and if I were any other team, I probably would not take on his contract after his production last year. Lakers are probably his best fit.
There are some decent options out there on FA or for cheap trade I would imagine. just as an example how far apart would Pacers be in a Gabe + Knecht for Toppin deal?

The only reason LA entertains this is if they believe they can at least get Caleb Martin level play out of KCP.

[BBallFreak]

I mean, for Miami, sure, but I agree with the Lakers fans when they say this is an overpay for KCP.

[psman2]

That pick is likely a mid 1st, with us having the Phoenix pick to swap with as well. I think we likely stay put and give Coward a lot of early minutes.

[JB2]

For LA, it creates a redundancy of guards and further exasperates their need for a wings and to a lesser extent, size.

Luka, AR, KCP, Smart, Gabe, Konchar, Bronny
LeBron, Vando, Laravia, Knecht, Adou
Ayton, Hayes

Value wise, is the cost of KCP really Rui? I like KCP to LA but feels like an overpay while also creating another major hole.

I think filling the DFS role is a bigger need than Rui at the back-up 4 at the moment. KCP is a gamble, and if I were any other team, I probably would not take on his contract after his production last year. Lakers are probably his best fit.
There are some decent options out there on FA or for cheap trade I would imagine. just as an example how far apart would Pacers be in a Gabe + Knecht for Toppin deal?

The only reason LA entertains this is if they believe they can at least get Caleb Martin level play out of KCP.

Your intent in finding the defense to replace DFS is sound. But KCP can’t do that. Finney-Smith guards 3/4’s best. KCP is mostly between guards some smaller forwards- same ways Smart does that.

[Scoot McGroot]

. just as an example how far apart would Pacers be in a Gabe + Knecht for Toppin deal?
.

I just don’t see a major interest in that type of move by Indy? Sure, could use a 3rd PG for one year, and that’s Gabe and he expires. But Obi is the 6th man, so hard to swap him for a 10th-12th man that may not play every night? And Knecht has value, but I don’t think he’s really needed in Indy, and has a tough road to minutes, when Indy would be playing Nembhard, McConnell, Mathurin, Nesmith, Sheppard, and Walker ahead of him at the 1-3? Add in young guys Indy has interest in developing in Furphy and Kam Jones, and all 3 two way guys (all g/sf type players)….And Gabe if acquired? Dalton would be a wasted asset, and Indy would likely need to go out and try to acquire a solid 6th man F/C to backfill the hole, which Obi would perfectly fill?

The value isn’t bad, but the fit/beed is pretty terrible for Indy? Created a bigger hole than the one it doesn’t really solve?

[jayjaysee]

If Memphis actually owned Mem and Orl firsts, I think it’s fair as is. But they likely own the Mem and Phoenix firsts.. And I don’t think Wiggins is worth either of those picks unprotected.

For LAL, I’d probably want to try to get Miami to give up Highsmith and keep Konchar? Figure out what else goes into that?

[BBallFreak]

If Memphis actually owned Mem and Orl firsts, I think it’s fair as is. But they likely own the Mem and Phoenix firsts.. And I don’t think Wiggins is worth either of those picks unprotected.

For LAL, I’d probably want to try to get Miami to give up Highsmith and keep Konchar? Figure out what else goes into that?

I don't think there's anything they would offer that would get us to do that. We really like Highsmith for that defense and versatility.

[esvl]

The value seems ok from the Memphis perspective, but it doesn’t look like Wiggins is a missing piece for us. To pay 1st to swap one veteran for a similar one is like to make a move for the sake of move. I can see the swap without 1st which Miami shouldn’t probably do.

[QMemphis]

Grizz perspective Wiggins on paper makes sense but in reality likely not a fit. He is a pretty up and down guy both on and off the floor. We value KCP’s toughness and shooting and also are looking to develop Coward as a future starter (Vince and GG getting left over minutes).

So Grizz pass also screw the Lakers lol.

Lakers perspective they should be looking to move Dalton for some value and Gabe Vincent as contract filler. Rui still provides scoring for them and allows them to be versatile in lineups.

[nykballa2k4]

. just as an example how far apart would Pacers be in a Gabe + Knecht for Toppin deal?
.

I just don’t see a major interest in that type of move by Indy? Sure, could use a 3rd PG for one year, and that’s Gabe and he expires. But Obi is the 6th man, so hard to swap him for a 10th-12th man that may not play every night? And Knecht has value, but I don’t think he’s really needed in Indy, and has a tough road to minutes, when Indy would be playing Nembhard, McConnell, Mathurin, Nesmith, Sheppard, and Walker ahead of him at the 1-3? Add in young guys Indy has interest in developing in Furphy and Kam Jones, and all 3 two way guys (all g/sf type players)….And Gabe if acquired? Dalton would be a wasted asset, and Indy would likely need to go out and try to acquire a solid 6th man F/C to backfill the hole, which Obi would perfectly fill?

The value isn’t bad, but the fit/beed is pretty terrible for Indy? Created a bigger hole than the one it doesn’t really solve?

I think I was putting more value on isiaih jackson and Jarace Walker. I figure both of those guys are due to move up. Also with Hali out, adding extra pg depth would be a plus.
In my head it was something like:
Siakam/Bryant/Huff/Wiseman
Walker/Jackson/James johnson
Mathurin/Knecht
Nesmith/Sheppard
Nembard/McConnell/Gabe

Admittedly it's a deep team really only lacking at C, but that's for a different trade thread.

[Scoot McGroot]

. just as an example how far apart would Pacers be in a Gabe + Knecht for Toppin deal?
.

I just don’t see a major interest in that type of move by Indy? Sure, could use a 3rd PG for one year, and that’s Gabe and he expires. But Obi is the 6th man, so hard to swap him for a 10th-12th man that may not play every night? And Knecht has value, but I don’t think he’s really needed in Indy, and has a tough road to minutes, when Indy would be playing Nembhard, McConnell, Mathurin, Nesmith, Sheppard, and Walker ahead of him at the 1-3? Add in young guys Indy has interest in developing in Furphy and Kam Jones, and all 3 two way guys (all g/sf type players)….And Gabe if acquired? Dalton would be a wasted asset, and Indy would likely need to go out and try to acquire a solid 6th man F/C to backfill the hole, which Obi would perfectly fill?

The value isn’t bad, but the fit/beed is pretty terrible for Indy? Created a bigger hole than the one it doesn’t really solve?

I think I was putting more value on isiaih jackson and Jarace Walker. I figure both of those guys are due to move up. Also with Hali out, adding extra pg depth would be a plus.
In my head it was something like:
Siakam/Bryant/Huff/Wiseman
Walker/Jackson/James johnson
Mathurin/Knecht
Nesmith/Sheppard
Nembard/McConnell/Gabe

Admittedly it's a deep team really only lacking at C, but that's for a different trade thread.

Siakam absolutely should not be a starting center. Situational minutes some nights? Maybe.
Thomas Bryant has/is signing overseas.
James Johnson is retiring.
Jackson is a center.


Realistically, if Indy did this deal, it's gotta be something like:
Jackson/Huff/Bradley*/Wiseman
Siakam/
Nesmith/Walker/Furphy/Knecht
Mathurin/Sheppard/Peter(TW)
Nembhard/McConnell/Gabe, Jones, Jackson, Dennis all handling 3rd PG minutes depending on the night
*Bradley may just be waived and the 15th roster spot kept empty

Sure, Gabe would probably be 3rd PG. Knecht would likely be 5th or 6th at the SG/SF rotation, and 6th or 7th when Indy plays Nembhard/McConnell together. At a certain point, Indy is dealing their 6th man for 2 guys that are looking to be 7th-9th in the 1-3 rotation? Or 10th-12th in the overall rotation at best? And when they're that deep, why wouldn't Indy focus on developing the guys THEY like that THEY drafted in Furphy, Kam Jones, Taelon Peter, etc?

But no, Indy's not going to burn out the relationship with Pascal Siakam by playing him at center just to find a few minutes a night for Dalton Knecht and Gabe Vincent. More realistically Indy may just look for a camp tryout at PG as the 3rd PG to compete with Tony Bradley for the 15th roster spot, and just let their young guys develop with some minutes each night, based on who's practicing hard and producing? As you see above, it's pretty empty behind Siakam, and while Walker can step up there, Indy probably needs both Walker and Obi to help stabilize the 4/5 spots with Siakam and whomever is playing well at the 5? Why trade out Obi for a lesser need when Monte Morris or Delon Wright are still out there for a vet minimum and can handle 3rd PG minutes ok?

[nykballa2k4]

I just don’t see a major interest in that type of move by Indy? Sure, could use a 3rd PG for one year, and that’s Gabe and he expires. But Obi is the 6th man, so hard to swap him for a 10th-12th man that may not play every night? And Knecht has value, but I don’t think he’s really needed in Indy, and has a tough road to minutes, when Indy would be playing Nembhard, McConnell, Mathurin, Nesmith, Sheppard, and Walker ahead of him at the 1-3? Add in young guys Indy has interest in developing in Furphy and Kam Jones, and all 3 two way guys (all g/sf type players)….And Gabe if acquired? Dalton would be a wasted asset, and Indy would likely need to go out and try to acquire a solid 6th man F/C to backfill the hole, which Obi would perfectly fill?

The value isn’t bad, but the fit/beed is pretty terrible for Indy? Created a bigger hole than the one it doesn’t really solve?

I think I was putting more value on isiaih jackson and Jarace Walker. I figure both of those guys are due to move up. Also with Hali out, adding extra pg depth would be a plus.
In my head it was something like:
Siakam/Bryant/Huff/Wiseman
Walker/Jackson/James johnson
Mathurin/Knecht
Nesmith/Sheppard
Nembard/McConnell/Gabe

Admittedly it's a deep team really only lacking at C, but that's for a different trade thread.

Siakam absolutely should not be a starting center. Situational minutes some nights? Maybe.
Thomas Bryant has/is signing overseas.
James Johnson is retiring.
Jackson is a center.


Realistically, if Indy did this deal, it's gotta be something like:
Jackson/Huff/Bradley*/Wiseman
Siakam/
Nesmith/Walker/Furphy/Knecht
Mathurin/Sheppard/Peter(TW)
Nembhard/McConnell/Gabe, Jones, Jackson, Dennis all handling 3rd PG minutes depending on the night
*Bradley may just be waived and the 15th roster spot kept empty

Sure, Gabe would probably be 3rd PG. Knecht would likely be 5th or 6th at the SG/SF rotation, and 6th or 7th when Indy plays Nembhard/McConnell together. At a certain point, Indy is dealing their 6th man for 2 guys that are looking to be 7th-9th in the 1-3 rotation? Or 10th-12th in the overall rotation at best? And when they're that deep, why wouldn't Indy focus on developing the guys THEY like that THEY drafted in Furphy, Kam Jones, Taelon Peter, etc?

But no, Indy's not going to burn out the relationship with Pascal Siakam by playing him at center just to find a few minutes a night for Dalton Knecht and Gabe Vincent. More realistically Indy may just look for a camp tryout at PG as the 3rd PG to compete with Tony Bradley for the 15th roster spot, and just let their young guys develop with some minutes each night, based on who's practicing hard and producing? As you see above, it's pretty empty behind Siakam, and while Walker can step up there, Indy probably needs both Walker and Obi to help stabilize the 4/5 spots with Siakam and whomever is playing well at the 5? Why trade out Obi for a lesser need when Monte Morris or Delon Wright are still out there for a vet minimum and can handle 3rd PG minutes ok?

My only retort is that Walker is a PF if there is no Toppin in front of him on the depth chart.

The reason Pacers consider this sort of a deal is because they want to open up playing time at PF.

As much as I lamented losing to the Pacers, I love Carlisle, I love that you guys have useful players 15 deep. I am sad that if we were trying to tamper with head coaches around the league, we didn't try to steal your dude!

I say all that to say I think there could easily be a role for Vincent and Knecht. I think Carlisle can get the most out of them because I have seen him do it with similar players before.

You have Furphy ahead of Knecht on the depth chart, that's no guarantee of course.

Of course, the concept I was going off of here is that if LA needs to replace a backup PF role Knecht should be worth 2 SRP, Vincent a playable EC those assets combined should be able to land a useful back up 4. Not elite, not Naz Reid, but Boucher level, Toppin level. Hell they could just sign Precious

[Scoot McGroot]

My only retort is that Walker is a PF if there is no Toppin in front of him on the depth chart.

Well, he'd have to be...there'd be no other PF on the roster to play behind Siakam? But sure, could be. He could also be a SF. Maybe he's a Point Center. He's a weird flexible guy who can guard up and down a bit, so not much pressure to find him minutes. Especially as he's still super young (only turns 22 next month).

The reason Pacers consider this sort of a deal is because they want to open up playing time at PF.

Don't really need to? They need guys to play minutes at the 4/5. There's plenty of minutes to play guys at the 3/4/5 with only Nesmith and Siakam (and bench minutes, Obi) established as reliable players.

I say all that to say I think there could easily be a role for Vincent and Knecht. I think Carlisle can get the most out of them because I have seen him do it with similar players before.

There absolutely is a role. It'd be emergency depth, or in the 10th-13th spots on the roster. At which point, play the young guys you already invested in?

You have Furphy ahead of Knecht on the depth chart, that's no guarantee of course.

Absolutely. But one guy was drafted by this current management, while the other has already been traded once, and struggled down the stretch. He was also pretty terrible in Summer League. There's some cause for concern? Dalton is also already 4 years older than Furphy?

Of course, the concept I was going off of here is that if LA needs to replace a backup PF role Knecht should be worth 2 SRP, Vincent a playable EC those assets combined should be able to land a useful back up 4. Not elite, not Naz Reid, but Boucher level, Toppin level. Hell they could just sign Precious

I get that the values are probably close. As I pointed out, there's just very little need for the 2 guys in particular in Indy. But there's also a HUGE need for Obi in Indy since Myles Turner walked for nothing. The value is probably fine. The concept and motivation for Indy is just completely lacking?

[kobe_vs_jordan]

Don't think lakers needed in deal. If you need some expiring Lakers offer Gabe and Maxi

[gom]

If Memphis actually owned Mem and Orl firsts, I think it’s fair as is. But they likely own the Mem and Phoenix firsts.. And I don’t think Wiggins is worth either of those picks unprotected.

For LAL, I’d probably want to try to get Miami to give up Highsmith and keep Konchar? Figure out what else goes into that?

I don't think there's anything they would offer that would get us to do that. We really like Highsmith for that defense and versatility.

Maybe not as much as we thought though?

[BBallFreak]

If Memphis actually owned Mem and Orl firsts, I think it’s fair as is. But they likely own the Mem and Phoenix firsts.. And I don’t think Wiggins is worth either of those picks unprotected.

For LAL, I’d probably want to try to get Miami to give up Highsmith and keep Konchar? Figure out what else goes into that?

I don't think there's anything they would offer that would get us to do that. We really like Highsmith for that defense and versatility.

Maybe not as much as we thought though?

Lol! That torn meniscus really did him in