Wilt vs Shaq

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Who's better?

Wilt
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50%
Shaq
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50%
 
Total votes: 58

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Re: Wilt vs Shaq 

Post#181 » by 70sFan » Sat Aug 16, 2025 8:46 am

One_and_Done wrote:Clearly the success of his teams speak to that, and alot of guys on Shaq's teams liked him as well.

We can say the exact thing about Wilt though, he had plenty of team success in his career and many of his teammates loved working with him.

The first thing that came to mind was 'how is a modern team supposed to function if their star refuses to live in the same city as the practise facility?' There's no way that could work.

That's a very era-specific thing though and it didn't last long.


For all Shaq's pouting he would mostly do what the coach was asking. Wilt wouldn't alot of the time.

This is a strange way to criticise Wilt. You can do that in a lot of ways, but the guy is known for reshaping his game multiple times in his career only because his coach asked him to do so. Wilt had issues with certain coaches, but the good ones he had did miracles with him, because he was coachable.

Shaq on the other hand played always the same way and refused to do things coaches wanted him to do, like play defense in 2001 season (he said he wasn't paid to play defense).

I think both players are just fine from coaching perspective, you just have to work around their egos.


He also insisted on going out and trying to 'get stats' early in his career, because he thought that was how he got paid.

That's actually not true, it's a well known fact that McGuire created this strategy of Wilt scoring as much as possible and Wilt agreed to try that.

The unwillingness to practise is also pretty problematic. Sign me up for Shaq turning up to practise, even if he's going to do 5 dumb things to try and get laughs and approval during each one.

Shaq also skipped practices and came in very out of shape at the camps. We're not comparing Wilt to Tim Duncan or Karl Malone here, Shaq didn't like and often didn't practice himself.
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Re: Wilt vs Shaq 

Post#182 » by TheGOATRises007 » Sat Aug 16, 2025 10:58 am

Wilt is better

I think their dominance at peak play is comparable

But after they both exit their athletic prime, Wilt showed far more adaptability in taking a lesser scoring role. He's a better defender, rebounder and passer than Shaq.
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Re: Wilt vs Shaq 

Post#183 » by 70sFan » Sat Aug 16, 2025 11:46 am

TheGOATRises007 wrote:Wilt is better

I think their dominance at peak play is comparable

But after they both exit their athletic prime, Wilt showed far more adaptability in taking a lesser scoring role. He's a better defender, rebounder and passer than Shaq.

That's a good point. People often point out 1969 for Wilt's inability to adjust his game but when you look at their careers after 32 years old (post 1969 and 2005), Wilt dealt with significant injuries and adapted his game to remain all-nba player for the rest of his career. Meanwhile Shaq was done after 2006 and even in 2006 he wasn't really better in postseason than an injured 1970 version of Wilt - and Chamberlain actually got better after the injury.

Shaq has an advantage because he started his career earlier, but his whole relevant career is 1993-06, which is identical to Wilt's career in length.
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Re: Wilt vs Shaq 

Post#184 » by tsherkin » Sat Aug 16, 2025 2:09 pm

70sFan wrote:Shaq has an advantage because he started his career earlier, but his whole relevant career is 1993-06, which is identical to Wilt's career in length.


I think he was relevant in 09 as well, and likely would have been more relevant for the intervening years after 06 if Miami's physical training staff had a similar point of emphasis as did Phoenix's. The Suns team managed to restore a good deal of mobility to Shaq for that season and it was his final All-Star appearance. The team was dreadful on defense and didn't make the playoffs, but it's at least worthy of note, I'd offer.
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Re: Wilt vs Shaq 

Post#185 » by eminence » Sat Aug 16, 2025 2:20 pm

'09 isn't an actively bad season, but post '06 I don't have Shaq ever above a decent starter season, which just don't do much historically.

Amar'e/Shaq were not even close to deserving Allstar appearances over Nash. Two of the worst same team decisions around.
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Re: Wilt vs Shaq 

Post#186 » by 70sFan » Sat Aug 16, 2025 2:54 pm

tsherkin wrote:
70sFan wrote:Shaq has an advantage because he started his career earlier, but his whole relevant career is 1993-06, which is identical to Wilt's career in length.


I think he was relevant in 09 as well, and likely would have been more relevant for the intervening years after 06 if Miami's physical training staff had a similar point of emphasis as did Phoenix's. The Suns team managed to restore a good deal of mobility to Shaq for that season and it was his final All-Star appearance. The team was dreadful on defense and didn't make the playoffs, but it's at least worthy of note, I'd offer.

He was relevant in a way that he could still provide something for the team, although I don't think he was positive for the Suns all things concerned.

Such season is basically nothing in all-time sense though and certainly not close to what Wilt was at the same age.
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Re: Wilt vs Shaq 

Post#187 » by penbeast0 » Sat Aug 16, 2025 6:46 pm

And for those who only look at how they would do today, Wilt would probably be much harder to hunt on PnR action as well as having better handles. Similar height, shaq was wider and stronger lower body which would give him an edge in post game but Wilt was quicker, faster, and better jumper. A bit more shooting range than Shaq as well.
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Re: Wilt vs Shaq 

Post#188 » by Outside » Sat Aug 16, 2025 7:49 pm

It's difficult to compare the two across such disparate eras, but it's clear that Wilt was the better rebounder and defender. Shaq didn't have the stamina or motivation to exert himself during the regular season.

Led league in rebounds - Wilt 11x in 14 seasons (including his last three seasons), Shaq 0
Led in total minutes played - Wilt 8x, Shaq 0 (despite playing 19 seasons vs 14 for Wilt, Shaq has almost 6k fewer career RS minutes, 41,918 vs 47,859)

The rebounding thing is huge for me. Shaq couldn't be bothered to exert himself like he should have.

A valid criticism of Wilt's defense is that he was hesitant to leave the post area, let alone guard on the perimeter, and wouldn't defend midrange screens. However, the same is true of Shaq.

Some argue that Wilt's advantage in numerous statistical categories is due to the pace of the era and the high minutes that most stars played. While there is truth to that, it's also true that, over much of his career, a player like Shaq would struggle with the pace and couldn't handle the minutes load, especially considering the compressed schedule. As I mentioned in the Oscar-KD thread, three games in a row was common, sometimes more, plus six games in seven nights, all while playing heavy minutes at an elevated pace. A potential counterargument to that is that young Shaq was more athletic and could keep up, but young Wilt did it better, and the difference between the two in their middle and late careers is starkly in Wilt's favor.

Shaq was obviously a tremendous player, an all-time great. His power and dominance is justly legendary. But this is a comparison with Wilt, whose power and dominance is a match for Shaq and has other advantages besides.
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Re: Wilt vs Shaq 

Post#189 » by Cavsfansince84 » Sat Aug 16, 2025 8:00 pm

I have Wilt at 7 and Shaq at 9. The main reason to rank Shaq higher imo is just his 00-02 playoff runs/titles. Wilt was a way more consistent force throughout his prime in terms of games/minutes and off/def impact though imo. Then even in the 71-73 years(age 34-36) he remained a very high impact player while Shaq became more like a legit role player after 06 though good in 09.
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Re: Wilt vs Shaq 

Post#190 » by 70sFan » Sat Aug 16, 2025 8:46 pm

penbeast0 wrote:And for those who only look at how they would do today, Wilt would probably be much harder to hunt on PnR action as well as having better handles. Similar height, shaq was wider and stronger lower body which would give him an edge in post game but Wilt was quicker, faster, and better jumper. A bit more shooting range than Shaq as well.

Only one thing I am not sure I agree with is the handles part. Wilt was extremely simplistic ball-handler from what I have seen. Even though I have heard about his PG time in Globetrotters, I don't think Wilt showed anything beyond very basic "moves". Shaq played in a looser era, but he was also more willing to attack from faceup position with live dribble.
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Re: Wilt vs Shaq 

Post#191 » by migya » Sun Aug 17, 2025 5:12 am

Cavsfansince84 wrote:I have Wilt at 7 and Shaq at 9. The main reason to rank Shaq higher imo is just his 00-02 playoff runs/titles. Wilt was a way more consistent force throughout his prime in terms of games/minutes and off/def impact though imo. Then even in the 71-73 years(age 34-36) he remained a very high impact player while Shaq became more like a legit role player after 06 though good in 09.


It's an interesting conversation how Wilt is not the greatest ever, not that I think ranking is totally possible. He was the most dominant, probably on both ends.
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Re: Wilt vs Shaq 

Post#192 » by Cavsfansince84 » Sun Aug 17, 2025 6:46 am

migya wrote:
It's an interesting conversation how Wilt is not the greatest ever, not that I think ranking is totally possible. He was the most dominant, probably on both ends.


Well its a team game so in that regard people question how well Wilt fit within a team concept.
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Re: Wilt vs Shaq 

Post#193 » by 70sFan » Sun Aug 17, 2025 7:30 am

migya wrote:
Cavsfansince84 wrote:I have Wilt at 7 and Shaq at 9. The main reason to rank Shaq higher imo is just his 00-02 playoff runs/titles. Wilt was a way more consistent force throughout his prime in terms of games/minutes and off/def impact though imo. Then even in the 71-73 years(age 34-36) he remained a very high impact player while Shaq became more like a legit role player after 06 though good in 09.


It's an interesting conversation how Wilt is not the greatest ever, not that I think ranking is totally possible. He was the most dominant, probably on both ends.

What makes you believe that Wilt was more dominant defensively than Russell?
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Re: Wilt vs Shaq 

Post#194 » by therealbig3 » Sun Aug 17, 2025 7:49 am

I think it’s crazy to act like Wilt was a bigger negative influence on a team than Shaq, knowing what we know about Shaq now. Shaq is one of the biggest locker room cancers of all time. He routinely wore out his welcome within a few years everywhere he went.

Shaq was still an amazing player, who was highly successful, and you can make an argument for him as a player over Wilt, although I’m finding that harder and harder to believe tbh. But as a teammate/locker room influence? Not many people I wouldn’t choose over Shaq.
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Re: Wilt vs Shaq 

Post#195 » by One_and_Done » Sun Aug 17, 2025 7:59 am

therealbig3 wrote:I think it’s crazy to act like Wilt was a bigger negative influence on a team than Shaq, knowing what we know about Shaq now. Shaq is one of the biggest locker room cancers of all time. He routinely wore out his welcome within a few years everywhere he went.

Shaq was still an amazing player, who was highly successful, and you can make an argument for him as a player over Wilt, although I’m finding that harder and harder to believe tbh. But as a teammate/locker room influence? Not many people I wouldn’t choose over Shaq.

Orlando: 4 years. They wanted to keep him.
Lakers: 8 years. They moved him because otherwise their younger (also troublesome) star would have left.
Heat: 3 years and then moved shortly thereafter.

At that point Shaq was out of his prime, and his problems weren't worth the hassle, but for the first 14 years of his career nobody was trying to move him because he was a locker room problem.

I never thought I'd be defending the childish and petulant Shaq, but he was basically a big kid acting out for attention. Kids are placated easily enough. Wilt hated practising at all, and for one team refused to live in the city he played for. How would that be workable today? It wouldn't.
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Re: Wilt vs Shaq 

Post#196 » by therealbig3 » Sun Aug 17, 2025 8:21 am

One_and_Done wrote:
therealbig3 wrote:I think it’s crazy to act like Wilt was a bigger negative influence on a team than Shaq, knowing what we know about Shaq now. Shaq is one of the biggest locker room cancers of all time. He routinely wore out his welcome within a few years everywhere he went.

Shaq was still an amazing player, who was highly successful, and you can make an argument for him as a player over Wilt, although I’m finding that harder and harder to believe tbh. But as a teammate/locker room influence? Not many people I wouldn’t choose over Shaq.

Orlando: 4 years. They wanted to keep him.
Lakers: 8 years. They moved him because otherwise their younger (also troublesome) star would have left.
Heat: 3 years and then moved shortly thereafter.

At that point Shaq was out of his prime, and his problems weren't worth the hassle, but for the first 14 years of his career nobody was trying to move him because he was a locker room problem.

I never thought I'd be defending the childish and petulant Shaq, but he was basically a big kid acting out for attention. Kids are placated easily enough. Wilt hated practising at all, and for one team refused to live in the city he played for. How would that be workable today? It wouldn't.


Wilts teams wanted to keep him too.

I mean yeah, I acknowledged that Shaq was still an amazing player, and when you’re good at something, people will deal with the negatives more readily because the end product is still great. That’s true of Wilt too though, so it doesn’t really affect this comparison. Shaq still chose to leave the Magic who had a very good team around him because of non basketball reasons. Then couldn’t get along with Kobe and forced management to pick one, and as good as Shaq was, he was still traded by the Lakers despite still being an MVP-level player, because they chose Kobe over him, which ended up being the correct move.

Goes to Miami and after one great season, immediately gains weight and plays subpar for most of the season, only for Wade to pull a miracle out of his hat and lead them to the title. And then basically irrelevant the rest of his career, but his end in Miami wasn’t pretty. Nor was his time in Phoenix either.

Wilt doesn’t really have the same issues. Speaking of practice, do you think Shaq was practicing as much as he should have, and didn’t skip out? What about rehabbing on “company time”? Refusing to play defense unless he got the ball on offense? None of that sounds like stuff that Wilt pulled. He always played hard on both sides of the ball and always kept himself in shape.
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Re: Wilt vs Shaq 

Post#197 » by One_and_Done » Sun Aug 17, 2025 8:55 am

Yeh, I disagree. I also find it bizarre to be complaining about Shaq' locker room issues after his 14th season. Wilt's entire career was only 14 years, and he spent it with as many teams as Shaq over that time.

Do you really think a team today could function with their star refusing to live in the same city?
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Re: Wilt vs Shaq 

Post#198 » by 70sFan » Sun Aug 17, 2025 9:22 am

Wilt lived in NY, which is 2 hours long from Philadelphia. Is this really that huge of a deal? Is it really worse than being a bully attacking his teammates?
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Re: Wilt vs Shaq 

Post#199 » by One_and_Done » Sun Aug 17, 2025 9:52 am

70sFan wrote:Wilt lived in NY, which is 2 hours long from Philadelphia. Is this really that huge of a deal? Is it really worse than being a bully attacking his teammates?

If the team is mostly cool with it, and it has no visible on court impact, why does it matter? I am anti-bullying obviously, but it would be naive to think there isn't alot of hazing and bullying in American sports. I find it weird and shameful personally, but it seems widespread. It's alot easier to work around than a guy not living in the city he plays for.

At any rate, this stuff isn't moving the needle much for me so I'll leave it there.
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Re: Wilt vs Shaq 

Post#200 » by tsherkin » Sun Aug 17, 2025 9:53 am

70sFan wrote:He was relevant in a way that he could still provide something for the team, although I don't think he was positive for the Suns all things concerned.


I think Phoenix was in such a disastrous situation that year that it's hard to really evaluate. But with that level of health, he was at a similar level to his 06 self, just not getting quite as many touches. So if 06 counts, then I'm inclined to say 09 should as well, you know?

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