Bulls announce D-Rose Jersey Retirement

[jnrjr79]

if derrick rose were from literally any other city in the world there might be an interesting debate to have about whether his jersey merits retirement, but the fact is he's from chicago and people **** love him here and this decision is a no-brainer in the organization's eyes

Agree. Interestingly its the argument people like me make against retiring his number.

I always knew this was going to happen. There was never any doubt. Derrick Rose is one of the most beloved players in Bulls history and is near if not on the Mt. Rushmore of Chicago basketball players if you are looking at childhood through pro. From a business and marketing perspective you basically have to retire his number. He's so beloved that fans would actually revolt if the Bulls refused him the honor. As you said, no brainer.

For those of us who don't give a **** about the accident of his birthplace, the debate for retiring his number is different. Taking all emotion and sentimentality out of it (which is easy for me as an non-Chicagoan who has no emotional or sentimental feelings about Derrick Rose as a person at all), if I was in charge and marketing were not a factor, I wouldn't give more than 30 seconds thought to retiring his jersey. I wouldn't do it.

But then again there is a subjective factor to that too: What is your criteria? To me, jersey retirement is based on a career, not a pinnacle. Too bad Rose got injured young and his career was ruined. But that happened. I would retire someone like Noah before I would retire Rose. But this is all academic. The Bulls are a business and this is most certainly good business.

Speaking of good business, the cheapest seat in the house right now for the jersey retirement game on StubHub is $369. If you want to sit in the 100 level, it's $805.

[kodo]

if derrick rose were from literally any other city in the world there might be an interesting debate to have about whether his jersey merits retirement, but the fact is he's from chicago and people **** love him here and this decision is a no-brainer in the organization's eyes

Agree. Interestingly its the argument people like me make against retiring his number.

I always knew this was going to happen. There was never any doubt. Derrick Rose is one of the most beloved players in Bulls history and is near if not on the Mt. Rushmore of Chicago basketball players if you are looking at childhood through pro. From a business and marketing perspective you basically have to retire his number. He's so beloved that fans would actually revolt if the Bulls refused him the honor. As you said, no brainer.

For those of us who don't give a **** about the accident of his birthplace, the debate for retiring his number is different. Taking all emotion and sentimentality out of it (which is easy for me as an non-Chicagoan who has no emotional or sentimental feelings about Derrick Rose as a person at all), if I was in charge and marketing were not a factor, I wouldn't give more than 30 seconds thought to retiring his jersey. I wouldn't do it.

But then again there is a subjective factor to that too: What is your criteria? To me, jersey retirement is based on a career, not a pinnacle. Too bad Rose got injured young and his career was ruined. But that happened. I would retire someone like Noah before I would retire Rose. But this is all academic. The Bulls are a business and this is most certainly good business.

Fair enough about career vs pinnacle, I think that's often debated even for other awards like the Hall.
I tend to value peak a lot more than career.

For example, if we retired jerseys based on career points Michael & Scottie & Love are obvious, but the next retirements would be:
Luol Deng – 10,286 points
Jerry Sloan – 10,233 points
Zach LaVine – 10,056 points

Sloan is already retired so instead of Rose's retirements we'd be retiring Deng & Lavine, and I can't buy into that.
Lavine holds a # of significant milestones, like the 2nd most 30+ point games by a Bull and most 3 pointers. But there's no way we're retiring his #, Chicagoans for the most part hate Lavine and he's probably the 2nd best SG the franchise ever had. All based on his peak not being very high.

[nomorezorro]

i do think the fact that deng and lavine are so high on that list speaks to red’s points that there just really aren’t a lot of significantly notable figures in this franchise’s history, so it’s not like the relatively low number of retired jerseys is a matter of principle/high standards

[Red8911]

Let’s be honest even though Rose was MVP that season LeBron was still the best player then and he proved it to him and us once they met in the ECF.

This is coming from someone who loved Rose and hates LeBron. Regular season MVPs or records don’t mean sht if you don’t follow it up in the playoffs.

LeBron was certainly the best player, but Rose was absolutely the MVP that year too. Bulls were 3-0 against the Heat and finished with a better record, and Rose didn't have two hall of famers next to him like LeBron.

If you think winning the MVP is worthless, I'm not going to try to change your mind, but he absolutely deserved the award, and it is certainly an extremely difficult award to ever get given there have only been two players in Bulls history that have won it, and I would guess a bunch of franchises have never had a single player win it.

An MVP isn't worthless, it’s a great accomplishment for him but is it worth a jersey retirement and his name up in the rafters next to MJ just because of a regular season reward ?

Do the playoffs not matter more than the regular season? Everyone has their own opinion on this. You and others will say it’s enough to warrant a jersey retirement, I say not. He’s getting it anyway.

[dougthonus]

An MVP isn't worthless, it’s a great accomplishment for him but is it worth a jersey retirement and his name up in the rafters next to MJ just because of a regular season reward ?

What if I ask you if it is enough to deserve being next to Bob Love or Jerry Sloan?

Do the playoffs not matter more than the regular season? Everyone has their own opinion on this. You and others will say it’s enough to warrant a jersey retirement, I say not. He’s getting it anyway.

FWIW, I agree it isn't open and shut, but I would lean yes, but totally get your opinion too.

[Red Larrivee]

An MVP isn't worthless, it’s a great accomplishment for him but is it worth a jersey retirement and his name up in the rafters next to MJ just because of a regular season reward ?

Do the playoffs not matter more than the regular season? Everyone has their own opinion on this. You and others will say it’s enough to warrant a jersey retirement, I say not. He’s getting it anyway.

You're acting like Rose underachieved by not beating a team with 3 HOFers on it in their prime. The 2nd best player on that Bulls team was either Noah or Deng. Be for real.

Michael Jordan is not the bar for Chicago Bulls jersey retirements. We will be lucky to see another player in the next 20 years that impacts this franchise the way Rose did for any amount of time.

[DuckIII]

We will be lucky to see another player in the next 20 years that impacts this franchise the way Rose did for any amount of time.

Despite that I would still not retire his jersey in a vacuum in which we pretend money is irrelevant, you are absolutely right about that. He’s the second or third greatest Bull to ever perform in the uniform. And when the first greatest guy is the first greatest guy among all guys ever, that’s pretty damn hard to come by.

He was undeniably, jaw dropping, elite.

[kodo]

An MVP isn't worthless, it’s a great accomplishment for him but is it worth a jersey retirement and his name up in the rafters next to MJ just because of a regular season reward ?

What if I ask you if it is enough to deserve being next to Bob Love or Jerry Sloan?

Do the playoffs not matter more than the regular season? Everyone has their own opinion on this. You and others will say it’s enough to warrant a jersey retirement, I say not. He’s getting it anyway.

FWIW, I agree it isn't open and shut, but I would lean yes, but totally get your opinion too.

I'd say his playoff resume is better than Love's or Sloan's.

Sloan won 2 playoff series for Chicago.
Sloan has 703 playoff points for Chicago (although Sloan was more of a defender)
Furthest postseason was 2nd round.

Love won 2 playoff series for Chicago.
Love has 1096 playoff points for Chicago.
Furthest postseason was 2nd round.

Rose has 3 won playoff series for Chicago.
Rose has 973 playoff points for Chicago.
Furthest postseason was EC Finals.

Outside of the Jordan era, the Bulls have only gotten past the 1st round 6 times. 3 of those times were Rose teams, 2 of them were the Love/Sloan teams.

Throw in the MVP for the regular season, seems like he's a more notable Bull than Love. Sloan was mainly retired because he was literally the 1st Bull player ever and that opportunity will never come again.

[SalmonsSuperfan]

Any player accomplishing what Rose did in 4 seasons is still extremely rare in the NBA. It doesn't matter that injuries derailed everything.

It depends on how specific you are being. Rose delivered two really great regular seasons and one good playoff run where we got to the ECF. There are a whole host of players that have done that and not gotten their jersey retired. The MVP is really what sets him apart from the uniqueness perspective, but if you remove that reward, what he did is not even remotely close to special ore jersey retirement worthy.

He falls well short of the typical criteria required for a jersey retirement in terms of number of productive years and post seasons results.

But again, unique case. He's only the second MVP with the Bulls, and his peak was amazing and he had a special connection to the city, and has lack of longevity was not his fault and was tragic. I'd retire his jersey too, but I could see the case either way.

Let’s be honest even though Rose was MVP that season LeBron was still the best player then and he proved it to him and us once they met in the ECF.

This is coming from someone who loved Rose and hates LeBron. Regular season MVPs or records don’t mean sht if you don’t follow it up in the playoffs.

The context is important. LeBron left the Cavs and joined the Heat to create, arguably, the first free agency produced "super team". Certainly that was the rhetoric at the time. LeBron had to be extra special that season and, despite all the star power, they finished with a worse record than the Bulls. LeBron had better stats but it didn't result in a more successful regular season. The debate was between D Rose and Dwight, but the Magic finished 4th in the EFC that year. Realistically, Thibs was the MVP.

Furthermore, the fact that he's from Chicago is important regardless of what some on this board think. It's more than a game and Derrick's success was inspirational to a lot of kids born into a worse situation than you. I'm glad race-derived poverty doesn't apply to you, but it's insensitive to think it isn't important and socially beneficial. Or that people might have a connection to their home and aren't simply wayward and rootless.

My thing about D Rose was the rape trial that many seemingly forgot about (except you). Sure, it was a civil case and he "got off" on it, but clearly it's an example of a powerful man coercing a woman into bizarre sex acts she probably didn't want to do ("consensual" sex with your family members is still weird, dawg). I mean, you can say 'no', right, but there are certainly more factors at play even if it's not by-the-book, go-directly-to-jail rape. He did not come out looking good from it even if there wasn't enough evidence to prove that a rape occurred. "We men" is a timeless quote.

He has a complicated legacy, I think they should retire his jersey for 'on the court' reasons, but I feel like the 'off court' stuff really soured my view of him and I'm of the opinion the team shouldn't be endorsing this. Nobody seems to care about Kobe's indiscretions and he actually 'settled', implicit guilt, whereas D Rose won his case. Kobe was a much bigger dick in other regards too whereas Rose has always had the persona of a nice, humble dude (whether it's the truth or not...he also seems pretty simple).

I think both the Bulls and Sox have gone a different direction in terms of condoning these things and I'm not such a fan of it. Why did the Sox sign and then re-sign Mike Clevinger just to pitch to a 5 ERA on the AAA team, and then lie about knowing the allegations against him? I don't think any other team in the NBA was touching Giddey with a 10-foot pole, his lack of interest this offseason despite good stats seems to continue to speak to that. How about the sexual assault case against Omar Vizquel put forward by an autistic batboy that he settled on; why is Jerry Reinsdorf's personal mouthpiece, Bob Nightengale, trying to rehabilitate him?

Maybe all of these things are debatable or hearsay or whatever else, but in summation, it reflects poorly on the organization in my opinion. We weren't hearing about this stuff a decade ago, our issue as fans seemed to be "they care about personal character too much and they should just sign good players" and now it's just guys with sketchy pasts who are barely even difference-makers.

[jc23]

Its a city of Chicago jersey retirement. Which is fine, i dont think it lessens the other players hanging in the rafters or the organization. For many years we have had criticism about loyalty etc...well this the opposite of that talk.

[dougthonus]

An MVP isn't worthless, it’s a great accomplishment for him but is it worth a jersey retirement and his name up in the rafters next to MJ just because of a regular season reward ?

What if I ask you if it is enough to deserve being next to Bob Love or Jerry Sloan?

Do the playoffs not matter more than the regular season? Everyone has their own opinion on this. You and others will say it’s enough to warrant a jersey retirement, I say not. He’s getting it anyway.

FWIW, I agree it isn't open and shut, but I would lean yes, but totally get your opinion too.

I'd say his playoff resume is better than Love's or Sloan's.

Sloan won 2 playoff series for Chicago.
Sloan has 703 playoff points for Chicago (although Sloan was more of a defender)
Furthest postseason was 2nd round.

Love won 2 playoff series for Chicago.
Love has 1096 playoff points for Chicago.
Furthest postseason was 2nd round.

Rose has 3 won playoff series for Chicago.
Rose has 973 playoff points for Chicago.
Furthest postseason was EC Finals.

Outside of the Jordan era, the Bulls have only gotten past the 1st round 6 times. 3 of those times were Rose teams, 2 of them were the Love/Sloan teams.

Throw in the MVP for the regular season, seems like he's a more notable Bull than Love. Sloan was mainly retired because he was literally the 1st Bull player ever and that opportunity will never come again.

Hard to compare playoffs in that era vs this era. In that era, you had eight teams going instead of 16, also much fewer teams in the league. It's really apples/oranges scenario.

[kodo]

Hard to compare playoffs in that era vs this era. In that era, you had eight teams going instead of 16, also much fewer teams in the league. It's really apples/oranges scenario.

If we're going to weight accomplishments by era, I (just IMO) would weight Rose's much higher because of the traditional "plumbers" argument which has some merit. Very few rate Bill Russell over Michael Jordan, for example, even with the 11 rings. Although the era vs era is totally personal for sure.

[dougthonus]

Hard to compare playoffs in that era vs this era. In that era, you had eight teams going instead of 16, also much fewer teams in the league. It's really apples/oranges scenario.

If we're going to weight accomplishments by era, I (just IMO) would weight Rose's much higher because of the traditional "plumbers" argument which has some merit. Very few rate Bill Russell over Michael Jordan, for example, even with the 11 rings. Although the era vs era is totally personal for sure.

I think it's a bit different to compare a 1st round win when the first round moves from 8 teams to 16 teams vs a finals when when the league moved from 8 teams to 32 teams. In this sense, the value of a ring in the Jordan era is higher than the Russell era. It was harder to come out of that field. I think it is easier to get the first round win in this era than the previous era (though up for debate).

Also, beyond the value of the ring being more now than when Russell got them, Jordan's role on the team winning the ring was much bigger than Russell's role.

Again, it's all apples and oranges. I don't think it's way off, just pointing out there are some significant differences.

FWIW though, I do agree that Rose compared to Love/Sloan feels reasonable to me. Especially given the relative popularity of the sport. The Bulls had a good era post Jordan, though people don't often appreciate it as such, I think it compares similarly from a success period to that sloan/love early era, and it's fine to retire a couple jersey's from it.

I'd be good retiring Joakim's jersey as well.

[dice]

Great. Now do Rodman and Kukoc. The Hall of Famers should be up there, as well.

rodman and kukoc might have been HOFers w/o their bulls years

[dice]

Any player accomplishing what Rose did in 4 seasons is still extremely rare in the NBA. It doesn't matter that injuries derailed everything.

It depends on how specific you are being. Rose delivered two really great regular seasons and one good playoff run where we got to the ECF. There are a whole host of players that have done that and not gotten their jersey retired. The MVP is really what sets him apart from the uniqueness perspective, but if you remove that reward, what he did is not even remotely close to special ore jersey retirement worthy.

He falls well short of the typical criteria required for a jersey retirement in terms of number of productive years and post seasons results.

But again, unique case. He's only the second MVP with the Bulls, and his peak was amazing and he had a special connection to the city, and has lack of longevity was not his fault and was tragic. I'd retire his jersey too, but I could see the case either way.

Let’s be honest even though Rose was MVP that season LeBron was still the best player then and he proved it to him and us once they met in the ECF.

This is coming from someone who loved Rose and hates LeBron. Regular season MVPs or records don’t mean sht if you don’t follow it up in the playoffs.

which is why MVP should be awarded in the offseason after the dust has settled

rose was dinged up in the postseason. but yeah, he was awful in the ECF. that and bosh dominating booz were too much

[dice]

if derrick rose were from literally any other city in the world there might be an interesting debate to have about whether his jersey merits retirement, but the fact is he's from chicago and people **** love him here and this decision is a no-brainer in the organization's eyes

Agree. Interestingly its the argument people like me make against retiring his number.

I always knew this was going to happen. There was never any doubt. Derrick Rose is one of the most beloved players in Bulls history and is near if not on the Mt. Rushmore of Chicago basketball players if you are looking at childhood through pro. From a business and marketing perspective you basically have to retire his number. He's so beloved that fans would actually revolt if the Bulls refused him the honor. As you said, no brainer.

For those of us who don't give a **** about the accident of his birthplace, the debate for retiring his number is different. Taking all emotion and sentimentality out of it (which is easy for me as an non-Chicagoan who has no emotional or sentimental feelings about Derrick Rose as a person at all), if I was in charge and marketing were not a factor, I wouldn't give more than 30 seconds thought to retiring his jersey. I wouldn't do it.

But then again there is a subjective factor to that too: What is your criteria? To me, jersey retirement is based on a career, not a pinnacle. Too bad Rose got injured young and his career was ruined. But that happened. I would retire someone like Noah before I would retire Rose. But this is all academic. The Bulls are a business and this is most certainly good business.

Speaking of good business, the cheapest seat in the house right now for the jersey retirement game on StubHub is $369. If you want to sit in the 100 level, it's $805.

do the bulls get a cut of that?

[dice]

It's not like the Bulls are the Celtics or Lakers, where there's an abundance of HOF players and champions in the rafters. There's a Michael Jordan standard, and it can't be applied to everyone else.

The reality is the Bulls haven't had many great players. Rose had a better career than 99% of Bulls players even if it was abbreviated. If you had a player who accomplished the same things Rose did, but instead he did it spread out over 9 seasons, it wouldn't make that player more deserving.

It's a bit of an odd case, though. The Bulls only had one dominant run, but that run was still enough such that they have the 4th most championships of any NBA team.

I get it. The Bulls are still a premier franchise because of market and that dynasty. But, we're not the Yankees or Lakers or something like that. If we were, I'd maybe understand the case against Rose more.

Someone brought up Charles Barkley in Phoenix, and that's probably the closest comp. Finals in his MVP year. Didn't reach the conference finals after. Phoenix will probably retire Devin Booker with a Finals visit and 0 MVPs.

i don't care what standards a franchise has that's never won much

[dice]

the Bulls will give away collectible Derrick Rose figurines at gates throughout the United Center while supplies last.

The four figurines represent different chapters of Derrick’s Bulls career.

4 chapters?

does one of the figurines depict him sprawled on the ground grabbing his knee? how about sitting next to reggie w/ a giant feedbag of skittles?

[jnrjr79]

Agree. Interestingly its the argument people like me make against retiring his number.

I always knew this was going to happen. There was never any doubt. Derrick Rose is one of the most beloved players in Bulls history and is near if not on the Mt. Rushmore of Chicago basketball players if you are looking at childhood through pro. From a business and marketing perspective you basically have to retire his number. He's so beloved that fans would actually revolt if the Bulls refused him the honor. As you said, no brainer.

For those of us who don't give a **** about the accident of his birthplace, the debate for retiring his number is different. Taking all emotion and sentimentality out of it (which is easy for me as an non-Chicagoan who has no emotional or sentimental feelings about Derrick Rose as a person at all), if I was in charge and marketing were not a factor, I wouldn't give more than 30 seconds thought to retiring his jersey. I wouldn't do it.

But then again there is a subjective factor to that too: What is your criteria? To me, jersey retirement is based on a career, not a pinnacle. Too bad Rose got injured young and his career was ruined. But that happened. I would retire someone like Noah before I would retire Rose. But this is all academic. The Bulls are a business and this is most certainly good business.

Speaking of good business, the cheapest seat in the house right now for the jersey retirement game on StubHub is $369. If you want to sit in the 100 level, it's $805.

do the bulls get a cut of that?

Not on StubHub, where I was checking, but I think they do on Ticketmaster, which is the official reseller.

[Jcool0]

He was about to be market corrected by Steph Curry, so even if he never got injuried his career most likely to plays out like Russel Westbrook then anything. Also for his MVP, he probably was a borderline top 5 player that year. He had the narrative that year and people hated LeBron for the decision. He gets the retirement because of his popularity being from Chicago, which we all know.