Realistic Wish List???

[DusterBuster]

The Kings with Vivek? He gave up on Hali literally during his ascension. And when they made that deal, they knew he was going to be really good, but they accepted a quick clear All Star over a guy who just looked like he would be that.

Using the term "gave up" in regards to the trade that sent Tyrese Haliburton to Indiana is utter insanity. They got Domantas Sabonis in return. As you said, a clear AllStar. Giving up on a guy is what we did with Martell Webster. If we traded Sharpe for an all-star would you declare that we gave up on him?

Ok, maybe not "gave up" if you'd like to split hairs about my phrasing. They did decide to move on from Hali for a more proven commodity tho, flat out. So my point wasn't trying to be that they let him go for nothing, it's that they have a track record of valuing more proven guys over younger guys.

While Grant is considerably less valuable than Sabas was at that time, the same would be true in the difference between Hali then and Murray now. Murray imo is never going to be anything better than a Marcus (or Markieff) Morris type PF. Caps out at probably a 14/15ppg player, 5rebs and decent shooting most years, but nothing to write home about.

IMO Keegan Murray is the kind of player teams are going to avoid paying in this new CBA era. He and his reps are gonna want 25+mil per year, teams are probably gonna want to cap him out at 20 per at most and I think you'll see Murray get into a prolonged RFA situation much like we're seeing this summer with guys like Giddy or Kuminga. In previous CBA's, teams would just pay those guys and hope for the best. Now days, teams don't want to pay a premium for young guys who are in that middle ground of being talent - but also not sure if they'll ever take that next step. So I just don't think Murray has a ton of value, and just purely talent standpoint, I could see the Kings viewing Grant as an upgrade over Keegan.

Again tho, salary concerns might negate the idea of Grant going to Sacramento as that might be prohibitive from them signing Westbrook.

[ebott]

If Sacramento wants to trade Keegan Murray for a more proven player maybe a trade for Grant isn't out if the question. After all, he's proven that HE SUCKS!!!!!!1!!!!!!!

[dckingsfan]

If Sacramento wants to trade Keegan Murray for a more proven player maybe a trade for Grant isn't out if the question. After all, he's proven that THE FO SUCKS!!!!!!!!!!!!!

And when yo say that - you mean against his contract, who is to blame for that? He has been above average at his position most of his career and had a couple of really good seasons.

So, FTFY.

But yeah, Murray was better than Grant last year - so there is that.

[dckingsfan]

I wonder if Trey Lyles could be an option with our remaining cap? Still searching for the "stretch 4" big option for this season.

[DusterBuster]

If Sacramento wants to trade Keegan Murray for a more proven player maybe a trade for Grant isn't out if the question. After all, he's proven that THE FO SUCKS!!!!!!!!!!!!!

And when yo say that - you mean against his contract, who is to blame for that? He has been above average at his position most of his career and had a couple of really good seasons.

So, FTFY.

But yeah, Murray was better than Grant last year - so there is that.

Was he tho?

https://stathead.com/tiny/pSUkD

Great bested Murray in Pts, Asts, St, Blk, 3pt and FT last year.

Grant had an absolutely putrid year from the field, like shockingly bad, but also according to those around the team, that's somewhat a byproduct of Billups' first half of the year offensive scheme which basically dropped any sort of a midrange game (3's and inside paint points only) which made a lot of players upset (including Grant) and wasn't fixed until the back half of the season (which Grant didn't play much in due to "injuries").

Murray is younger and - currently - cheaper, but if you give Murray a 25-30mil per year deal (which he will demand/hold for in RFA), do you really want to pay that for the "hope" this past season for him wasn't just a blip and that he is who he is?

For me personally, if a player has a dip like that in their 2nd or 3rd season, the likelihood they course correct and then take a major jump the next season is slim to none. I can't think of a player who ended up being really good ever doing that. Guys who become worth paying for consistently make jumps for their first 3-5 years, not dip in year 2 or 3. Guys who do that usually end up with unmemorable careers (tho I'm sure there are examples I'm not remembering or aware of).

[dckingsfan]

If Sacramento wants to trade Keegan Murray for a more proven player maybe a trade for Grant isn't out if the question. After all, he's proven that THE FO SUCKS!!!!!!!!!!!!!

And when yo say that - you mean against his contract, who is to blame for that? He has been above average at his position most of his career and had a couple of really good seasons.

So, FTFY.

But yeah, Murray was better than Grant last year - so there is that.

Was he tho?

https://stathead.com/tiny/pSUkD

Great bested Murray in Pts, Asts, St, Blk, 3pt and FT last year.

Grant had an absolutely putrid year from the field, like shockingly bad, but also according to those around the team, that's somewhat a byproduct of Billups' first half of the year offensive scheme which basically dropped any sort of a midrange game (3's and inside paint points only) which made a lot of players upset (including Grant) and wasn't fixed until the back half of the season (which Grant didn't play much in due to "injuries").

Murray is younger and - currently - cheaper, but if you give Murray a 25-30mil per year deal (which he will demand/hold for in RFA), do you really want to pay that for the "hope" this past season for him wasn't just a blip and that he is who he is?

For me personally, if a player has a dip like that in their 2nd or 3rd season, the likelihood they course correct and then take a major jump the next season is slim to none. I can't think of a player who ended up being really good ever doing that. Guys who become worth paying for consistently make jumps for their first 3-5 years, not dip in year 2 or 3. Guys who do that usually end up with unmemorable careers (tho I'm sure there are examples I'm not remembering or aware of).

Well, small sample size and even then Keegan was better on lower usage offensively and defensively.

The question really is the opposite. Does Sac want to do that?

[DusterBuster]

The question really is the opposite. Does Sac want to do that?

Well, to be fair, that is the question I've been asking more broadly.

I'm still of the believe that Murray isn't actually a high-level prospect and very valued in the league. I also believe Grant is wildly overpaid and not a good asset either. Grant is already paid, Murray is about to be paid. I think Grant is probably a better basketball fit with the current Kings.

I also believe, if I were running the Kangz, I wouldn't want either. I would have moved Murray this season for whatever I could get draft-capital and let his extension be someone else's problem and I would skip out on Grant's contract. And if I were running the Blazers, I would have just bought out Grant's contract (not a stretch waive) and bought out Simons deal (or trade him for 2nds as long as not bad contracts came back) vs trade him for Jrue... so what the hell do I know.

That said, with how the Kangz have operated in the last 2 years and seemingly want to operate this summer, a deal for taking on an expensive veteran isn't something they automatically turn their noses up at. Would they trade for Grant? I don't know. Do they want to pay Murray after his rookie deal? Again, I don't know.

[Wizenheimer]

the thread title says "realistic"

at this point are there really any 'realistic' Grant trades that actually improve the Blazers? I'm thinking there's not.

Maybe the most realistic scenario is assuming that Grant's season, last season, was more an aberration than predictive of his next couple of seasons. Now, he is 31 and sometimes wings begin to lose their impact value around that age. But he didn't appear to have lost any athleticism last year....he just couldn't stop tossing bricks at the hoop

I'm not on board the 'It's Winning Time Now Train" that the Blazer F.O. is selling tickets for and promoting like crazy. I don't believe the Blazers have any future all-NBA players on the roster; they might not even have any future all-stars on the roster. And without one of the former and a couple of the latter, their ceiling is 1st round exits. But that's pretty obviously the direction Cronin has committed too, and the Jerami Grant of his 1st two seasons in Portland would help that winning-time-now effort.

I would expect that the front office would seriously consider a trade that got the Blazers out of the last year for Grant's salary.

I would also expect that when Dundon actually takes over, there will be some changes in direction

[DusterBuster]

the thread title says "realistic"

at this point are there really any 'realistic' Grant trades that actually improve the Blazers? I'm thinking there's not.

Now this is an absolutely fair point. August NBA brain - very little to talk about.

[Wizenheimer]

the thread title says "realistic"

at this point are there really any 'realistic' Grant trades that actually improve the Blazers? I'm thinking there's not.

Now this is an absolutely fair point. August NBA brain - very little to talk about.

well, August NBA Brain is about to be diverted by 'september-college-football-brain-waiting-for-november-NBA-season-brain'

just in time for the annual major carriage dispute that screws over sports fans. This year's version is Fox Sports vs YoutubeTV