Top 15 finishers of all-time

[70sFan]

Alright so I compiled some rim finishing numbers for a few of the best guys I could find. There are others like Amare, Griffin, Jokic, Embiid, Zion etc. but their numbers are noticeably worse than these guys. And I didn't want to include low volume guys/dunk merchants like Deandre Jordan, Chandler etc.



With the exception of Durant, all other guys on here have very high volumes of rim shots too with Shaq being the highest. Durant is the only one who declines quite a lot in the postseason. Playoff numbers are not adjusted to defensive strength of competition and we can see everyone drops off a bit but Durant drops off a lot in the postseason.

Thank you for the data.

Who would you consider for the 20th century guys?

[Outside]

Much depends on the definition of "finisher." I'm old, and the definition back in the day was someone who finished well at the rim in transition or on slashes to the hoop, while this discussion seems more focused on players who score efficiently in the restricted area as part of halfcourt offense. Players like Shaq, Gilmore, and Jokic wouldn't be included for the first definition but would for the second.

Very few centers would qualify for the first definition, though Wilt is an interesting case. Early-career Wilt did get out on the break (though 70s could correct me if that is a misconception based on a few highlights), while later-career Wilt didn't get out on the break but was devastatingly effective in what would be the restricted area. After all, they widened the key specifically to combat Wilt's effectiveness in close (and widened it earlier for Mikan before that; I don't think Mikan has been mentioned).

Using the first definition, the best finishers were typically athletic wings, while the second opens up the field to bigs and crafty smalls like Steph and Kyrie.

Are put-backs at the rim considered finishing? Would a guy like Moses qualify?

I'm not saying one definition is better than another. Just making observations.

[Top10alltime]

Much depends on the definition of "finisher." I'm old, and the definition back in the day was someone who finished well at the rim in transition or on slashes to the hoop, while this discussion seems more focused on players who score efficiently in the restricted area as part of halfcourt offense. Players like Shaq, Gilmore, and Jokic wouldn't be included for the first definition but would for the second.

Very few centers would qualify for the first definition, though Wilt is an interesting case. Early-career Wilt did get out on the break (though 70s could correct me if that is a misconception based on a few highlights), while later-career Wilt didn't get out on the break but was devastatingly effective in what would be the restricted area. After all, they widened the key specifically to combat Wilt's effectiveness in close (and widened it earlier for Mikan before that; I don't think Mikan has been mentioned).

Using the first definition, the best finishers were typically athletic wings, while the second opens up the field to bigs and crafty smalls like Steph and Kyrie.

Are put-backs at the rim considered finishing? Would a guy like Moses qualify?

I'm not saying one definition is better than another. Just making observations.

Make your own definition. But please make the list

[Outside]

Much depends on the definition of "finisher." I'm old, and the definition back in the day was someone who finished well at the rim in transition or on slashes to the hoop, while this discussion seems more focused on players who score efficiently in the restricted area as part of halfcourt offense. Players like Shaq, Gilmore, and Jokic wouldn't be included for the first definition but would for the second.

Very few centers would qualify for the first definition, though Wilt is an interesting case. Early-career Wilt did get out on the break (though 70s could correct me if that is a misconception based on a few highlights), while later-career Wilt didn't get out on the break but was devastatingly effective in what would be the restricted area. After all, they widened the key specifically to combat Wilt's effectiveness in close (and widened it earlier for Mikan before that; I don't think Mikan has been mentioned).

Using the first definition, the best finishers were typically athletic wings, while the second opens up the field to bigs and crafty smalls like Steph and Kyrie.

Are put-backs at the rim considered finishing? Would a guy like Moses qualify?

I'm not saying one definition is better than another. Just making observations.

Make your own definition. But please make the list

The OP gets to make their own definition. Since you're the OP, you make the rules for the thread.

[parsnips33]

Man those Shaq numbers are nuts

[Djoker]

Who would you consider for the 20th century guys?

Oooohh that's an interesting question!

You actually tracked a bunch of games by all-timers and gave us some hugely valuable data. Here is a link to your thread in case people don't know.

First of all, I think Wilt gives Shaq a run for his money as the GOAT finisher. Maybe not in terms of raw % (although maybe even then) but especially in terms of relative %. In the 60's, rim baskets were at a premium and you'd get hammered if you went in. Heck, dunks were practically outlawed. Little guys would end up on a stretcher if they tried to posterize one of the C's of the era. So league average rim % were surely a lot lower than 60%... In your smallish sample tracking Wilt, he shot 77% at the rim. In 1967 he had a whole season shooting 68%. If half of the shots were at the rim, it's not hard to imagine him in that same ballpark which could be +20% or more above league average.

Kareem also looks unstoppable near the rim. Not as strong to get deep position as the power guys, but when he did, he was incredibly tough to stop. NCAA had to outlaw dunks to curtail him. Since league average shooting was probably higher in his era than in the 60's, I doubt his relative differentials were quite as high and his volume of rim attempts is also lower too but I feel confident saying he's top 10 . You also have him at 77% at the rim from your tracking.

Gilmore is another possible beast here. From just the eye test watching his footage, Gilmore pretty much only took dunks and point blank hooks and shot 65%+ numerous times. So he's probably top 10 ish as well.

And then there's Barkley. Dipper13 in this thread tracked 100 Barkley games from 1985-1996 including more than half of them being in the playoffs and the guy shot a ridiculous 81% from the rim. He looks like another guy who gives Shaq a run for his money for the GOAT title. Heck, from the sample that we have, he may be the outright GOAT finisher.

We don't have tracking for David Robinson but I think with his combination of power and athleticism, he must have been an amazing rim finisher. Could be a top 10 guy.

George Gervin is an interesting mention. I actually see him as more of a finesse finisher and a guy who excels at 3-10 feet not so much at the rim. Like he's good but I don't see him as cracking the top 10.

Jordan we have his playoff numbers from 1988-1991 where he's at a 71% average at the rim. That's incredible but from 1992 onwards it's much lower so I'd say peak for peak he could be top 10 ish but the bigger guys on here did it for 10+ years. He's not a serious contender for GOAT-level finishers.

Dr J is probably at about MJ's level. Again, probably not top 10 if I had to guess.

[lessthanjake]

Haven’t read anything others have said in this thread, but I’ll just say I’m pretty sure that the #1 here is definitely Shaq. After that there’s guys like Barkley, LeBron, Giannis, etc. But I think Shaq clearly stands alone at the top, with the only possible competitors being guys I have not watched contemporaneously such as Wilt.

[Ol Roy]

Probably worth considering how often players were fouled on drive/finishing attempts, that's sort of an assessment of how opposing defenses view someone's finishing ability.

[Top10alltime]

Who would you consider for the 20th century guys?

Oooohh that's an interesting question!

You actually tracked a bunch of games by all-timers and gave us some hugely valuable data. Here is a link to your thread in case people don't know.

First of all, I think Wilt gives Shaq a run for his money as the GOAT finisher.

And then there's Barkley. Dipper13 in this thread tracked 100 Barkley games from 1985-1996 including more than half of them being in the playoffs and the guy shot a ridiculous 81% from the rim. He looks like another guy who gives Shaq a run for his money for the GOAT title. Heck, from the sample that we have, he may be the outright GOAT finisher.

Jordan we have his playoff numbers from 1988-1991 where he's at a 71% average at the rim. That's incredible but from 1992 onwards it's much lower so I'd say peak for peak he could be top 10 ish but the bigger guys on here did it for 10+ years. He's not a serious contender for GOAT-level finishers.

Dr J is probably at about MJ's level. Again, probably not top 10 if I had to guess.

Shaq actually has no case over Lebron in finishing (maybe a very very very very very small case), there's a reason Bron has the GOAT rim pressure, and his playmaking makes it harder for defenses to focus on him (it's amazing how he still has the GOAT rim pressure). Lebron's slashing beats out what Shaq has on the inside, and he does it at a higher volume and efficiency than Shaq does dunks.

If you disagree, and if there will be enough people who will vote (If Shaq and Bron aren't locks, then realGM, unfortunately, can never be justified), I will track each against elite personnel (I'm thinking 2010 Celtics, 2013 or 2014 Finals for Lebron, and either 1995 Finals, 1999 Spurs, or 2001 Spurs series). Also if Chuck iss this high (IDK, but that will definitely put him higher), I think I'll do 1989 vs Knicks, 1991 vs Bulls, or 1996 vs Spurs, if this is consistent.

Also terrible there is almost no lists (only mine ). Whole point is some discussions, and 10-15 lists so yeah, there's been no discussion

Much depends on the definition of "finisher." I'm old, and the definition back in the day was someone who finished well at the rim in transition or on slashes to the hoop, while this discussion seems more focused on players who score efficiently in the restricted area as part of halfcourt offense. Players like Shaq, Gilmore, and Jokic wouldn't be included for the first definition but would for the second.

Very few centers would qualify for the first definition, though Wilt is an interesting case. Early-career Wilt did get out on the break (though 70s could correct me if that is a misconception based on a few highlights), while later-career Wilt didn't get out on the break but was devastatingly effective in what would be the restricted area. After all, they widened the key specifically to combat Wilt's effectiveness in close (and widened it earlier for Mikan before that; I don't think Mikan has been mentioned).

Using the first definition, the best finishers were typically athletic wings, while the second opens up the field to bigs and crafty smalls like Steph and Kyrie.

Are put-backs at the rim considered finishing? Would a guy like Moses qualify?

I'm not saying one definition is better than another. Just making observations.

Make your own definition. But please make the list

The OP gets to make their own definition. Since you're the OP, you make the rules for the thread.

viewtopic.php?p=119720102#p119720102

Here, this is my definition of finishing for this thread. Now, please make the top 15 list, there has rlly been almost no lists.

[Top10alltime]

Haven’t read anything others have said in this thread, but I’ll just say I’m pretty sure that the #1 here is definitely Shaq. After that there’s guys like Barkley, LeBron, Giannis, etc. But I think Shaq clearly stands alone at the top, with the only possible competitors being guys I have not watched contemporaneously such as Wilt.

Lebron is actually clear of Shaq IMO, but I may stand alone on this.

Do you have a top 15 finishers list? If so, can you share (I'm really trying here guys!)

[jalengreen]

This dude is definitely doing a bit btw

[homecourtloss]

Obviously it depends on definition of finishing, but I can’t see where Shaq and LeBron are in the same category as their respective “finishing” looks quite different.

[Top10alltime]

Obviously it depends on definition of finishing, but I can’t see where Shaq and LeBron are in the same category as their respective “finishing” looks quite different.

viewtopic.php?p=119720102#p119720102

What's your top 15 according to this definition?

[EmpireFalls]

Obviously it depends on definition of finishing, but I can’t see where Shaq and LeBron are in the same category as their respective “finishing” looks quite different.

And then you have Giannis at the nexus of them.

[Top10alltime]

Obviously it depends on definition of finishing, but I can’t see where Shaq and LeBron are in the same category as their respective “finishing” looks quite different.

And then you have Giannis at the nexus of them.

Definitely not top 3. Top 10 maybe, although that's hard to argue...

[EmpireFalls]

Obviously it depends on definition of finishing, but I can’t see where Shaq and LeBron are in the same category as their respective “finishing” looks quite different.

And then you have Giannis at the nexus of them.

Definitely not top 3. Top 10 maybe, although that's hard to argue...

You’re being too obvious

[Top10alltime]

If you’re talking about brute force finishing, then it’s Shaq, Giannis and Bron.

Add Wilt and Gilmore to that list and we are fine

Get Gilmore outside Jokic and Hakeem conversations before adding him up there.

[70sFan]

If you’re talking about brute force finishing, then it’s Shaq, Giannis and Bron.

Add Wilt and Gilmore to that list and we are fine

Get Gilmore outside Jokic and Hakeem conversations before adding him up there.

What's your problem with Gilmore finishing ability?

[Top10alltime]

Add Wilt and Gilmore to that list and we are fine

Get Gilmore outside Jokic and Hakeem conversations before adding him up there.

What's your problem with Gilmore finishing ability?

Mismatches. Other than scoring at stationary position. Still very great (top 15 maybe), just not top 10.

[70sFan]

Get Gilmore outside Jokic and Hakeem conversations before adding him up there.

What's your problem with Gilmore finishing ability?

Mismatches. Other than scoring at stationary position. Still very great (top 15 maybe), just not top 10.

I think it's very hard to put him outside top 10. The efficiency numbers he put up were absolutely insane, he looked like a modern rim runner by FG% but his playstyle was very typical to the oldschool post up center. He was insanely good at finishing through traffic, but also his finishing touch was really good, especially for a guy of his size.

I think you underrate older players here a little bit. I don't see how you can push Jordan tier ahead of Julius Erving either.