PG - Matas good

[ShouldaPaidBG]

20/6 with 3 stocks is basically the high end of what you could possibly expect from a second year Matas.

Unless......

[ShouldaPaidBG]

Okoro gave us a very Lonzo-like game. Good defense, made some good assists, couldn't shoot worth a damn. And overall he was +17 on the night much higher than any other player in the building. It's a vintage Lonzo game, but he's available every night and pretty young. Lonzo was 1-7 himself tonight.

Jalen Smith was actually terrible, on either end.

Giddey & Tre with 19 assists was nice to watch, it's not easy to generate offense as a bad team with your best scorer out but they kept the offense for 3 quarters. Vuc obviously did most of the damage, but he was set up on every single make.

Having actual point guards Giddey and Tre on the floor at all times is such a breath of fresh air after watching Zach and Demar do whatever the f that was for years.

[Ice Man]

Having actual point guards Giddey and Tre on the floor at all times is such a breath of fresh air after watching Zach and Demar do whatever the f that was for years.

Yep. In addition to the Bulls, I watched some of San Antonio - Dallas. The Mavs have no PG and man is that defect evident.

[DuckIII]

Good:

1. Matas is a franchise player. He put up 21/6/3 and wasn’t even being aggressive. He has it all mentally and physically.

2. Giddey picked up where he left off and looked terrific. Hopefully as the season goes on he’ll get more respect from the refs. Detroit was straight mugging him on drives all night long.

3. Vuc. Freaking awesome game by him.

4. Tre was instrumental to this win. Steadying force, effectively ran the offense, solid D. If he’s not the best non-rookie bargain deal in the league, who is?

Pretty Good:

Pat, Ayo, and Huerter.

Consistent with the only preseason game I was able to see, this is the most energized Pat has ever looked in the opening games of a season. He normally looks abysmal and lifeless for the first few games. Fingers crossed.

Bad:

Okoro: the idea was that the pace and full court style we play would help Okoro score a bit more. We’ll see. I thought he looked pretty poor all night, including being badly outplayed by Pat on D.

Smith: I have said BD’s failure to give him more run last year was confusing. If that was what BD has been seeing in practice, I get it now.

Terry/BD: Why did Terry play? And why the hell did those minutes come late in a tight game? He’s TERRIBLE. In an otherwise highly enjoyable night, his presence was like someone baking small turd nugget into the middle of a delicious chocolate cake. Just stop it.

How did you think Okoro was bad on D? He was the primary guy on Cade and absolutely shut him down almost all night long. I thought he was great on defense all night.

I didn't say he was bad on D. I should explain. He "looked poor all night" - in context of him being an elite defensive specialist who pretty much provides only that. I agree with JCool somewhat on this one. He did a decent job on Cade but some of it was just missed shots. He even shot 60% from the line. Okoro is still who he is, an excellent defender. I just don't think he was all that good at it last night for a dude who is supposed to be elite at it. Which is why I mentioned Pat, who had a very impactful game defensively.

Its not an insult to get outplayed defensively by a fully engaged Pat Williams. One of the nice things about Okoro is we anticipate being able to rely on his consistency, which we cannot do with Pat. But when you also can't score, it calls into question how much you are adding if Pat is engaged.

But it was one game and I was making a single game observation. I still think Okoro will be fine. I'm one of the folks who liked the trade.

[DuckIII]

Giddey was being defended by Ausar. Then Holland.

Enough said.

And being hack fouled with no call virtually every time he got a step and penetrated. Your answer is still correct, I just wanted to take another shot at the way the crew officiated Giddey. Kudos to Giddey for not being like Luka and moaning about it all game instead of playing.

[Hangtime84]

Will Perdue believes Jalen has a leg issue

I think so too. He wraps his one knee more than most and always using some padding wrapped around like old vets do.

[Stratmaster]

Crazy pace and physicality across the whole league…

- Lots of injuries incoming

- Many teams won’t continue this high effort play

- Teams without depth are going to suck

Yeah I was watching some highlights of other games and it seemed like every team came out running like crazy.

[DuckIII]

We have something going with Giddey and Matas. Been a long since we’ve had two young players produce like this. They can be cornerstones for the next decade.

And they actually compliment each other to form the core of a logically constructed roster, rather than shoving puzzle pieces together by force.

Wait until we add Essengue. The three of them have the potential to be scary together.

How quickly we forget about Coby White who would also fit with the above three players

I'm sloppy today. To clarify, when I say add Essengue I'm referring to really, consistently adding him as a high minute core player. So I'm referring to 1-2 years from now and depending on if Noa is as good as I think he is. Certainly, by a significant margin, Coby will help more this season.

In my opinion, if this team has a meaningful future it will be because Giddey, Matas and Noa evolve into a huge, fast, athletic three headed monster who can run like crazy with Noa and Matas creating defensive havoc behind Giddey. To me, that is the "special" vision that represents a path to consistent higher level postseason success.

Coby, in my mind, is not special. He's a very good shooting guard, but a guy I believe is far easier to replace in a variety of ways. As of today, I'm not even convinced he's the best option on our own roster when projecting future salaries.

[DuckIII]

Something about Vuc's game, that I hope to see more of, is that his shots all seemed to just come in the flow of what the offense was doing. He shot it when open, passed it otherwise. As long as he plays that simple game, he will be much more palatable to watch than someone who views himself as the veteran man on a young team.

[WesPeace]

I just wish Matas would get more open looks, open shots, more shots overall.. 12 is kinda low for him and Coby isnt even playing yet.

[El Ridda]

Loving the Matas vibes. Feels like he’s developing into what we hoped Tyrus Thomas could be.

[rosenthall]

Something about Vuc's game, that I hope to see more of, is that his shots all seemed to just come in the flow of what the offense was doing. He shot it when open, passed it otherwise. As long as he plays that simple game, he will be much more palatable to watch than someone who views himself as the veteran man on a young team.

I think it's mostly just PG play.

He was like this at the end of last year too. Giddey and Vuc really benefit each other on offense.

[mack2354]

Devil's Advocate take here. Yes, Giddey had a good game. That last play with Giddey getting the ball knocked out of bounds and then the refs changing it to a foul is what bothers me about him.

A good/great ballhandler doesn't get put in that situation to begin with. Giddey just isn't quick enough or have a good enough handle when defenders are going 100%. NBA players are typically only going 80%. 4th quarters, chippy games, playoff/play-in games and contract years are usually the only times guys are really going all out.

That play was just another example in a long track record of Giddey's history where when good defenders are going 100% at him that he simply can't overcome it. Giddey has talent, is a great passer and has a great knack for getting rebounds. Im not saying Giddey is a "bad" player at all.

The Bulls really should have 1 or possibly 2 ball handling guards on the court with Giddey down the stretch of games and especially in the playoffs.

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[DuckIII]

Devil's Advocate take here. Yes, Giddey had a good game. That last play with Giddey getting the ball knocked out of bounds and then the refs changing it to a foul is what bothers me about him.

A good/great ballhandler doesn't get put in that situation to begin with. Giddey just isn't quick enough or have a good enough handle when defenders are going 100%. NBA players are typically only going 80%. 4th quarters, chippy games, playoff/play-in games and contract years are usually the only times guys are really going all out.

That play was just another example in a long track record of Giddey's history where when good defenders are going 100% at him that he simply can't overcome it. Giddey has talent, is a great passer and has a great knack for getting rebounds. Im not saying Giddey is a "bad" player at all.

The Bulls really should have 1 or possibly 2 ball handling guards on the court with Giddey down the stretch of games and especially in the playoffs.

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Giddey was being guarded ferociously and being fouled all game long. One thing that was obvious from go is that, contrary to common concerns here, Detroit clearly considered Giddey a focal point of their defensive attention. More accurately, the clear focal point. Its a miracle he didn't have more turnovers than he did. Cunningham hammering him from behind on that double team had been happening to Giddey all game long. It might be only time they actually called it a foul, and that required a challenge.

I don't know your prior opinion of Giddey, but am I wrong to guess you are detractor? Describing that play as "Giddey getting the ball knocked out of bounds and then the refs changing to a foul" rather than "Giddey getting fouled hard by Cunningham, causing the ball to roll out of bounds" is odd. He was hacked from behind in real time and the replay confirmed it.

[ShouldaPaidBG]

How did you think Okoro was bad on D? He was the primary guy on Cade and absolutely shut him down almost all night long. I thought he was great on defense all night.

I didn't say he was bad on D. I should explain. He "looked poor all night" - in context of him being an elite defensive specialist who pretty much provides only that. I agree with JCool somewhat on this one. He did a decent job on Cade but some of it was just missed shots. He even shot 60% from the line. Okoro is still who he is, an excellent defender. I just don't think he was all that good at it last night for a dude who is supposed to be elite at it. Which is why I mentioned Pat, who had a very impactful game defensively.

Its not an insult to get outplayed defensively by a fully engaged Pat Williams. One of the nice things about Okoro is we anticipate being able to rely on his consistency, which we cannot do with Pat. But when you also can't score, it calls into question how much you are adding if Pat is engaged.

But it was one game and I was making a single game observation. I still think Okoro will be fine. I'm one of the folks who liked the trade.

I'm hoping Okoro mentally unlocks Pat via Pat comparing himself to Okoro and being like god damn, I'm better than this mirror image of myself.

[Red Larrivee]

Devil's Advocate take here. Yes, Giddey had a good game. That last play with Giddey getting the ball knocked out of bounds and then the refs changing it to a foul is what bothers me about him.

A good/great ballhandler doesn't get put in that situation to begin with. Giddey just isn't quick enough or have a good enough handle when defenders are going 100%. NBA players are typically only going 80%. 4th quarters, chippy games, playoff/play-in games and contract years are usually the only times guys are really going all out.

That play was just another example in a long track record of Giddey's history where when good defenders are going 100% at him that he simply can't overcome it. Giddey has talent, is a great passer and has a great knack for getting rebounds. Im not saying Giddey is a "bad" player at all.

The Bulls really should have 1 or possibly 2 ball handling guards on the court with Giddey down the stretch of games and especially in the playoffs.

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Let's not do this.

There was an entire offseason of people dismissing his improvement as bum slaying and then he plays well in preseason and follows it with 19p/5r/11a in 28 minutes against a team that people believe is a dark horse contender in the East. At some point, we just gotta give dude credit.

[League Circles]

TBH I'm really surprised anyone thinks Giddey looked or played particularly well. That's fine though, I'm not worried at all. Like many guys he probably just needs to settle into more of a rhythm.

If Patrick can look like he did last night and Essengue can add muscle and be what we hope, a defensive frontcourt of Noa, Matas and Patrick might be incredibly strong and versatile and allow us to roll with Coby and Giddey as the other two.

I keep saying that our 5th starter is a hot competition and remains open short term and long term between Okoro, Ayo, Huerter and yes, still Patrick.

Vuc, incredibly flawed on D when it matters, is still shockingly competent as an all around offensive player. But with his age and proven liability on D, we need to keep eyeing the future at C, and who knows maybe it can be Noa. Smith looked bad, Collins is injured and Vuc is old.

[waffle]

If anything I was more impressed by Giddey last night.

He was getting hacked at and bumped all night. His ability to get to within a few feet of the basket is AMAZING. his handles are pretty darn good and he uses his size well.

By being the focus for the opposing D he opens up opportunities on O for other Bulls and I think the Bulls are playing to that strength right now

Giddey is more disruptive, in a good way, than most give him credit for.

[League Circles]

It was kind of amazing to see arguably the two best setup floor generals we've had in the modern era in Giddey and Jones orchestrate things. These guys are BOTH better as pure points than perhaps any player I can recall for the Bulls. Over Derrick Rose, Pippen, etc. Not as players of course, but as offensive quarterbacks.

[drosestruts]

And they actually compliment each other to form the core of a logically constructed roster, rather than shoving puzzle pieces together by force.

Wait until we add Essengue. The three of them have the potential to be scary together.

How quickly we forget about Coby White who would also fit with the above three players

I'm sloppy today. To clarify, when I say add Essengue I'm referring to really, consistently adding him as a high minute core player. So I'm referring to 1-2 years from now and depending on if Noa is as good as I think he is. Certainly, by a significant margin, Coby will help more this season.

In my opinion, if this team has a meaningful future it will be because Giddey, Matas and Noa evolve into a huge, fast, athletic three headed monster who can run like crazy with Noa and Matas creating defensive havoc behind Giddey. To me, that is the "special" vision that represents a path to consistent higher level postseason success.

Coby, in my mind, is not special. He's a very good shooting guard, but a guy I believe is far easier to replace in a variety of ways. As of today, I'm not even convinced he's the best option on our own roster when projecting future salaries.

I agree with you that the future success of this team will largely be due to how Giddey, Matas, and Noah play and evolve

I have slight disagreements about Coby. Mainly he is a very good shooting guard, but that is not easy to replace.

Amongst guards who score 16+ points per game last year he was 11th in TS% at pretty much 60% even. If you look at post-all star game he would rank 6th amongst all guards.

Coby last season on the whole was a very good scoring guard. Post all-star break he was an elite scoring guard.

And unlike previous elite scorers at that position (like Zach LaVine) Coby was having a positive on-court Net Rating.

Coby is only 25 and has nicely shown improvement pretty much every year. Had a very good season, and was at times for stretches during that season an elite scorer.

These don't grow on trees.

I fully view Coby as a part of our core