Varsho/Moreno/Kirk Discussion Thread

[brwnman]

Since Game 2 of the Yankees series, here are Varsho’s stats:

72 Plate Appearances
.164/.222./254
1 HR
19 Ks
-0.618WPA


His career postseason with the Jays, he had a .667 OPS and a -0.605WPA. Never forget, Varsho single-handedly lost the Jays the World Series.

And the last two postseason for the Jays ended with Varsho striking out against the Twins, and Kirk being doubled up with the tying run at 3rd with less than 2 outs.

[brwnman]

We gonna talk about Varsho raking so far vs. the Yanks?

Boy, I wish we had GURRIEL instead!

Should I repeat myself?

Repeat yourself!

[DelAbbot]

Yup, the fact that Barger and Clement were hitting below Varsho for most of the series was downright criminal. If you want to talk about lefty/righty matchup then fine, but at least Barger needs to be above Varsho. Game 6 hurt us heavily with Varsho coming up empty with runners on base repeatedly.

I 100% blame Schneider for that. Roberts would not have played this seven game series keeping Barger and Clement below Varsho, I promise you that.

It's their stupidness insisting they need a LF bat at #5, and then finally make the move to move him down, but just 7th again because they wanted to have RF/LF/RF/LF combo just in case Dodgers bring in their lfs (But that's only valid if you can actually hit), meanwhile ERNIE who is breaking records for post season is batting 8th? Make it make sense? Yes Ernie isn't a power threat, but dude was having a series, and meanwhile Varsho had like 2 hits all series.

In the end he's not the SOLE reason we lost the game, but he definitely played a role, can't be coming up to bat in game 6/7, and not get one hit, even by accident you should be able to get a hit at some point, hell just bunt if he can't do anything else.

But agree it's not his fault the FO or manager thinks he's ideal #5 or #7 hitter, when he's producing like #9 hitter if that.

We need to sign Bellinger LHB to break this cycle of stupid stubbornness

[brwnman]

Is a 3000 OPS good?

What he end the postseason with?

[brwnman]

Here for the Daulton Var-Show

Stayed for the Daulton No-Show.

[brwnman]

Kirk and Varsho combined for 24 total bases over 2 playoff games this weekend while also playing the best defense at their positions in the sport.

Imagine still trying to desperately cling on to the idea that this trade wasn't a massive win for this organization. Does it get any sadder?

Varsho had 17 total bases in the next 16 games. “Massive Win”

[brwnman]

i don't know, i think i'd really like the light hitting HOF-bound gabby moreno on the team right now. we could really have used some bloop singles this past weekend. or if not him, the other HOF-caliber player we should have traded varsho for instead.

Bloop singles would have been more useful than shrinking in every important situation for the duration of the playoffs.

[DelAbbot]

brwnman taking out his anger by bumping all the receipts

[Mehar]

brwnman taking out his anger by bumping all the receipts

Much respect to brwnman for telling it like it is. Nothing wrong with being angry, when Varsho left 13 men on base in both Game 6 and Game 7, and was one of the primary factors this team choked in the final two games at home and lost the World Series.

This front office needs to start looking for potential Centre Field replacements for Noodle Arm Varsho starting tomorrow. He can take his buddies IKF and Little with him in the next city he will play in. Forget about talking about Moreno, Gurriel, or Kirk. Let's talk about declining Varsho's 10 million arbitration number and going with a better hitter in Centre Field for 2026.

[brwnman]

Alejandro Kirk's GIDP is the most impactful defensive play in major league history.

It had a Championship WPA of -44.7%. No play in MLB history has had as large a WPA in favor of the team on defense.

[Clay Davis]

If Kirk's bat didn't shatter he'd have had one of the most iconic runs in baseball history. His legacy, his rizz... all because of a **** BAT SHATTERING OFF OF A POTENTIAL WALK-OFF HOME RUN TO CLINCH THE WORLD SERIES!!

[JaysRule25]

Varsho is an easy punching bag but the reality is that this game is about peaks and valleys. Players slump. Barger went through a vicious slump in August himself, Vladdy had a slump, etc.

Blame Schneider for refusing to see reason and continuously batting Varsho in the top 5. Same with Lukes. These guys were literally doing nothing for multiple games. Meanwhile you have Barger who hit .500 in the world series consistently hitting behind Varsho. You have Ernie Clement who just set the record for most post-season hits hitting 8th behind Varsho. It's just crazy to me.

Roberts straight up benched Pages (a 27 homer hitter in the regular season) because he was trash in the playoffs. And look how it paid off. I'm not even saying that Varsho should be benched. His defense alone warrants him playing. But it's absolutely crazy that we had him hitting middle of the order with runners on base and watching him struggle to even make contact.

Varsho in game 6: -11.51% cWPA
Varsho in game 7: -24.26% cWPA

cWPA is an advanced stat which calculates championship win probability added.

[Mehar]

Varsho is an easy punching bag but the reality is that this game is about peaks and valleys. Players slump. Barger went through a vicious slump in August himself, Vladdy had a slump, etc.

Blame Schneider for refusing to see reason and continuously batting Varsho in the top 5. Same with Lukes. These guys were literally doing nothing for multiple games. Meanwhile you have Barger who hit .500 in the world series consistently hitting behind Varsho. You have Ernie Clement who just set the record for most post-season hits hitting 8th behind Varsho. It's just crazy to me.

Roberts straight up benched Pages (a 27 homer hitter in the regular season) because he was trash in the playoffs. And look how it paid off. I'm not even saying that Varsho should be benched. His defense alone warrants him playing. But it's absolutely crazy that we had him hitting middle of the order with runners on base and watching him struggle to even make contact.

Varsho in game 6: -11.51% cWPA
Varsho in game 7: -24.26% cWPA

cWPA is an advanced stat which calculates championship win probability added.

In the end, what you said is correct. It was not Varsho's decision for this foolish manager and front office to continuously slot Varsho at 5, ahead of Barger and Clement. That being said, I hope this front office goes in a different direction for 2026, and acquires another Centre Fielder who is a much better hitter than Varsho.

A Centre Fielder who you can regularly hit in the middle of the order. A guy like Bellinger would fit nicely, and he will be much cheaper than Tucker.

[Los_29]

Finally some closure. Varsho and Kirk on the way to the WS.

Closure.

What they gonna say now?

The closure needs to be Varsho playing elsewhere in 2026. Jays declining his arbitration number and letting him walk. Fan Boy Randle can follow his Man Crush to the next team noodle arm Varsho plays for. All this choker needed to do was hit a Sac Fly, and the Jays win the World Series.

Instead he goes 0 for 5 in Game 7. He leaves a mindboggling 13 men on base in both Game 6 and Game 7. One of the most pathetic performances by a hitter in a World Series I have ever witnessed. I do not want to see this bum again in a Jays uniform. Go get another Centre Fielder who can hit a lick with all the money Rogers made this post-season.

It’s amazing that you guys are doing it after this team went to 7 games in the WS against a powerhouse in the Dodgers.

Keep the tears flowing.

[Cyrus]

Closure.

What they gonna say now?

The closure needs to be Varsho playing elsewhere in 2026. Jays declining his arbitration number and letting him walk. Fan Boy Randle can follow his Man Crush to the next team noodle arm Varsho plays for. All this choker needed to do was hit a Sac Fly, and the Jays win the World Series.

Instead he goes 0 for 5 in Game 7. He leaves a mindboggling 13 men on base in both Game 6 and Game 7. One of the most pathetic performances by a hitter in a World Series I have ever witnessed. I do not want to see this bum again in a Jays uniform. Go get another Centre Fielder who can hit a lick with all the money Rogers made this post-season.

It’s amazing that you guys are doing it after this team went to 7 games in the WS against a powerhouse in the Dodgers.

Keep the tears flowing.

But dodgers weren't a powerhouse (On paper sure), they didn't steam roll, and looked so beatable, there was like 2-3 people contributing, basically got nothing out of betts, and pretty much everyone else not named othani and maybe will smith.

Their bullpen was trash

[brwnman]

Closure.

What they gonna say now?

The closure needs to be Varsho playing elsewhere in 2026. Jays declining his arbitration number and letting him walk. Fan Boy Randle can follow his Man Crush to the next team noodle arm Varsho plays for. All this choker needed to do was hit a Sac Fly, and the Jays win the World Series.

Instead he goes 0 for 5 in Game 7. He leaves a mindboggling 13 men on base in both Game 6 and Game 7. One of the most pathetic performances by a hitter in a World Series I have ever witnessed. I do not want to see this bum again in a Jays uniform. Go get another Centre Fielder who can hit a lick with all the money Rogers made this post-season.

It’s amazing that you guys are doing it after this team went to 7 games in the WS against a powerhouse in the Dodgers.

Keep the tears flowing.

When would you prefer to do this? Last year? Done. The year before? Done. After they were heading to WS this year? Done.

It’s been pretty consistent. The only difference about now is, you can see it clearly too. But can’t take the L. Closure.

[brwnman]

Varsho is an easy punching bag but the reality is that this game is about peaks and valleys. Players slump. Barger went through a vicious slump in August himself, Vladdy had a slump, etc.

Blame Schneider for refusing to see reason and continuously batting Varsho in the top 5. Same with Lukes. These guys were literally doing nothing for multiple games. Meanwhile you have Barger who hit .500 in the world series consistently hitting behind Varsho. You have Ernie Clement who just set the record for most post-season hits hitting 8th behind Varsho. It's just crazy to me.

Roberts straight up benched Pages (a 27 homer hitter in the regular season) because he was trash in the playoffs. And look how it paid off. I'm not even saying that Varsho should be benched. His defense alone warrants him playing. But it's absolutely crazy that we had him hitting middle of the order with runners on base and watching him struggle to even make contact.

Varsho in game 6: -11.51% cWPA
Varsho in game 7: -24.26% cWPA

cWPA is an advanced stat which calculates championship win probability added.

I saw cWPA but didn’t know what it was… my goodness.

Ernie not moving up in the order after what he was doing and Varsho batting 5th in Game 6? It was ridiculous. It’s not like the Jays had a team with established hitters with pedigree that you knew it was a matter or time. I was generally ok with Top 4 but after that, it should have been whoever is hot.

I agree players slump, Varsho is on a 3-year slump.

[brwnman]

The closure needs to be Varsho playing elsewhere in 2026. Jays declining his arbitration number and letting him walk. Fan Boy Randle can follow his Man Crush to the next team noodle arm Varsho plays for. All this choker needed to do was hit a Sac Fly, and the Jays win the World Series.

Instead he goes 0 for 5 in Game 7. He leaves a mindboggling 13 men on base in both Game 6 and Game 7. One of the most pathetic performances by a hitter in a World Series I have ever witnessed. I do not want to see this bum again in a Jays uniform. Go get another Centre Fielder who can hit a lick with all the money Rogers made this post-season.

It’s amazing that you guys are doing it after this team went to 7 games in the WS against a powerhouse in the Dodgers.

Keep the tears flowing.

But dodgers weren't a powerhouse (On paper sure), they didn't steam roll, and looked so beatable, there was like 2-3 people contributing, basically got nothing out of betts, and pretty much everyone else not named othani and maybe will smith.

Their bullpen was trash

Exactly, the only advantage Dodgers had coming in was their Starting Pitching. It was negated by Yesavage, who got you two wins that Yama got them. Freeman and Betts were not great for them and their bottom half of the order was atrocious.

Jays played like the better team for majority of the series, they just couldn’t cash in the runs that mattered in the last two games. Varsho left 13 runners on base in the last 2 games.

[Mehar]

Closure.

What they gonna say now?

The closure needs to be Varsho playing elsewhere in 2026. Jays declining his arbitration number and letting him walk. Fan Boy Randle can follow his Man Crush to the next team noodle arm Varsho plays for. All this choker needed to do was hit a Sac Fly, and the Jays win the World Series.

Instead he goes 0 for 5 in Game 7. He leaves a mindboggling 13 men on base in both Game 6 and Game 7. One of the most pathetic performances by a hitter in a World Series I have ever witnessed. I do not want to see this bum again in a Jays uniform. Go get another Centre Fielder who can hit a lick with all the money Rogers made this post-season.

It’s amazing that you guys are doing it after this team went to 7 games in the WS against a powerhouse in the Dodgers.

Keep the tears flowing.

What the hell are you talking about? The Jays in the World Series were the better team overall in my opinion against the Powerhouse Dodgers. I should have been celebrating in the Streets of Toronto, along with fans across Canada. However, your and Randle's hero Noodle Arm Varsho was one of the primary reasons that did not happen. He singlehandedly cost the team in Game 6 and Game 7, and possibly Game 3. A record 13 men left on base the last two games. All you needed was a Sac Fly and he could not even deliver in that area. Not entirely his fault, since this goof manager and joke front office insisted on hitting him above Clement. When this bum Varsho should have been hitting 8th below Clement all along. I mentioned it just yesterday, when Fan Boy Randle thought that was idiotic to have his Man Crush hit 8th.

One of the most pathetic hitting displays in the World Series I have ever witnessed by one player in all of my decades watching baseball. Actually since Game 2 of the ALDS. Did Bradley Zimmer proud. Three years of seeing this bum chase balls out of the Strike Zone, and not make contact when needed is enough. He can go elsewhere for 2026. Take Brendon Little and IKF with him in his next destination. Forget about talking about Gurriel, Moreno, or Kirk. Kirk might have struggled hitting wise in the World Series, but he was one of the reasons we were in the World Series. His exceptional framing and performance in the last game of the regular season to clinch the division was incredible. However, this team performed better record wise when this bum Varsho was not even playing. Decline his arbitration number. Go get a better hitter in CF for 2026. That is true closure, after witnessing the most pathetic performance by a hitter in the World Series that cost this city and country a title.

[PowerPlant1]

Varsho had a great season and had a pivotal HR when the rest of the team couldn't hit a beach ball to get the Jays a division win. This effect cannot be understated. Based on the season and his ability to hit some clutch HRs, I understand why he wasn't moved down in the lineup but along with Lukes likely should have. Dodgers changed things up more moving up Smith for Betts for instance and their moves paid off.

The noodle arm made it much too easy to score on sac flies. The Bassitt run in particular, the throw looked awful.

The DRS only makes a difference when it does. It did in game 7 but so did the lack of hits and noodle arm. That being said, congrats to him on his great season.