We need to talk about Cade (Cunningham)

[MrBigShot]

He's amazing and so much fun to watch. It's an absolute privilege to get to watch this guy night in and night out.

[zimpy27]

I’ve never liked tsherkin’s takes on Cade because I think they miss some very important nuances about his role in the offense. I’ll save those for another day. But tsherkin is right about one thing — he’s actually not been that good offensively so far this year. His turnovers are down about 20% without sacrificing assists or the way he plays, but that’s about it. He’s not shooting well after tearing it up in the preseason, which is disappointing, but he’ll pick that up to some extent.

It's important to remember how I frame my remarks.

At baseline, I'm very happy to acknowledge that Cade is not just a good player, but a fantastic one. He's an excellent playmaker, and he's a high-value guy for a team's offense. He just isn't a tier 1 scorer, and that limits his ceiling when he is deployed in that kind of role. That isn't really a hot take; we already have a pretty good bead on the profile of the player type which is actually capable of leading a team to a title at this point. That doesn't mean that I don't think Cade is good for Detroit, or recognize that he's already a perennial All-Star-level talent who remains young and improving, though.

I would say Cade is going to be as good as the Billups that led Pistons to a championship. Yes the other pieces have to be near perfect but in the right context I could see him being the #1 option lead to a championship.

[tsherkin]

I would say Cade is going to be as good as the Billups that led Pistons to a championship. Yes the other pieces have to be near perfect but in the right context I could see him being the #1 option lead to a championship.

He's different than Billups in his approach. Billups was an efficient player who was a capable game manager and veteran presence but who was excellent at drawing fouls, shooting 3s, etc. Cade's got some pretty impressive mid-range ability, but is a far more capable playmaker. And that Detroit team was one of those "once every 30 years or so" kind of squads that didn't have a generational superstar on it, you know what I mean?

Still, he's going to keep Detroit relevant in the EC for a long time, especially if they keep playing this kind of defense around him.

[zimpy27]

I would say Cade is going to be as good as the Billups that led Pistons to a championship. Yes the other pieces have to be near perfect but in the right context I could see him being the #1 option lead to a championship.

He's different than Billups in his approach. Billups was an efficient player who was a capable game manager and veteran presence but who was excellent at drawing fouls, shooting 3s, etc. Cade's got some pretty impressive mid-range ability, but is a far more capable playmaker. And that Detroit team was one of those "once every 30 years or so" kind of squads that didn't have a generational superstar on it, you know what I mean?

Still, he's going to keep Detroit relevant in the EC for a long time, especially if they keep playing this kind of defense around him.

Yeah but I do think the Pistons have built a good young team around Cade.

Cade, Ivey, Ausar, Holland, Duren

I think they can collectively become and efficient scoring group where Cade can work on efficiency game over volume.

[tsherkin]

Yeah but I do think the Pistons have built a good young team around Cade.

Cade, Ivey, Ausar, Holland, Duren

They have, which is a big part of why they will be very successful, for sure. Good chemistry all around.

I think they can collectively become and efficient scoring group where Cade can work on efficiency game over volume.

He can, but unless he gets a lot more athletic, he isn't going to suddenly become a major rim-pressure guy, which is largest impediment to scoring efficiency. He's already an excellent mid-range shooter, and this early start notwithstanding, he'd improved notably from 3 the past two years. There's going to be some level of cap to his ability as a scorer. Which is fine, because if he wasn't, then we'd all be having very different conversations about his potential career arc (e.g. they'd be even more flattering for him).

Detroit's good, and Cade is very good. Like basically any player who isn't threatening to be the best in the entire league, though, he has his limitations.

I will say, I wish we had him on Toronto, heh.

[Capn'O]

Now you guys need to start watching Isiah Stewart. Get the bs out of your head from that Lebron scene a few seasons ago, this man has grown. He's spearheading our teams defensive impact in the paint. Even though Duren has grown and is showing us he's worth a big contract, Stewart still covers for his defensive deficiencies. The amount of crow I've seen tossed his way still is embarrassing from people who believe they know basketball.

I hope you're not lumping my comments in there. That's certainly not how they were intended.

Stewart seems like the kind of guy who will be volatile in an unstable environment and an x-factor in a stable environment. Like Rodman in Chicago, Sprewell in NYC, JR Smith in Cleveland, Draymond in GS, etc. He's got that chaotic energy that great teams need a small dose of. He's a good player and I think you've got the environment right for him to thrive.

Absolute stud.

He's REALLY pushing Brunson for the best PG in the East imo (HM: Maxey)...personally I like him more than Brunson & feel like JB has a better supporting cast so far AND deserves the VERY slight nod just due to track record/resume. But skillwise I like Cade and I think if he had the same level of supporting cast would have similar, if not better results but I can't just give him that...but it feels like Cade is working his way towards taking that crown. Of course I love Scottie, have utmost respect for Mobley and Sengun but Cade is still the best player from his class. If he could just get a good 2nd option (preferably that can shoot) & a PF that could provide a bit more spacing the Pistons would really take off.

He's the only guard in the East I'll entertain for that argument but I think you still have to put Brunson ahead. Brunson's a better scorer, Cade the better all around player. Both great leaders. I'd love to see the two of them together (in NYC, of course) but it'll likely never happen. They'd be perfect next to one another.

[chilluminati]

Now you guys need to start watching Isiah Stewart. Get the bs out of your head from that Lebron scene a few seasons ago, this man has grown. He's spearheading our teams defensive impact in the paint. Even though Duren has grown and is showing us he's worth a big contract, Stewart still covers for his defensive deficiencies. The amount of crow I've seen tossed his way still is embarrassing from people who believe they know basketball.

I hope you're not lumping my comments in there. That's certainly not how they were intended.

Stewart seems like the kind of guy who will be volatile in an unstable environment and an x-factor in a stable environment. Like Rodman in Chicago, Sprewell in NYC, JR Smith in Cleveland, Draymond in GS, etc. He's got that chaotic energy that great teams need a small dose of. He's a good player and I think you've got the environment right for him to thrive.

Nah not your words, but just the public's perception of him in general. I remember the threads on this forum saying he'd be out of the league. All of the NBA media's narrative labeling, etc. Stew has had more people rooting against him than for him. Not for a dumb reason though, Stew was a rage case his first few years, and still has some issues with overreacting. But he's getting a ton better, and is showing maturity. He got that tech last night or the game before and JB was yelling at the refs "That's reputation!" referring to the one sided tech being because of Stew's rep. Stew walked up to him and told him it's cool and just walked it off. It really was a moment where you could truly see his change in attitude.

[tmorgan]

Yeah but I do think the Pistons have built a good young team around Cade.

Cade, Ivey, Ausar, Holland, Duren

They have, which is a big part of why they will be very successful, for sure. Good chemistry all around.

I think they can collectively become and efficient scoring group where Cade can work on efficiency game over volume.

He can, but unless he gets a lot more athletic, he isn't going to suddenly become a major rim-pressure guy, which is largest impediment to scoring efficiency. He's already an excellent mid-range shooter, and this early start notwithstanding, he'd improved notably from 3 the past two years. There's going to be some level of cap to his ability as a scorer. Which is fine, because if he wasn't, then we'd all be having very different conversations about his potential career arc (e.g. they'd be even more flattering for him).

Detroit's good, and Cade is very good. Like basically any player who isn't threatening to be the best in the entire league, though, he has his limitations.

I will say, I wish we had him on Toronto, heh.

Actually, Cade is becoming a better rim pressure guy. Sample size, yeah, but his increased strength is helping him finish and also draw fouls. That’s the one part of his scoring that HAS been good this year. It’s his shooting, both mid-range and from three, that’s off to a slow start.

72% at the rim thus far, career 60.5%.

[bstein14]

He's clearly behind the top 5 of Jokic, Giannis, SGA, Wemby and Luka... but he's almost certainly in the next five. I guess you can make a case for being 11th or 12th but he's at a point where he should be a perennial top 10 player for a while.

He has actually not shot the ball very well to start this season. He was red hot in the pre-season but has been off most of the time to start this year. I think if he gets back to shooting the long ball a bit better it'll be hard for anyone to argue he isn't top 10.

It'll be interesting to see where the Pistons end up this year. They've already been missing Tobias most of the season and now Stewart just sprained his ankle the Pistons could fall back down a notch with 2 of their next 3 against a decent looking Philly team.

[tsherkin]

Actually, Cade is becoming a better rim pressure guy. Sample size, yeah, but his increased strength is helping him finish and also draw fouls. That’s the one part of his scoring that HAS been good this year. It’s his shooting, both mid-range and from three, that’s off to a slow start.

72% at the rim thus far, career 60.5%.

His finishing percentage is better right now. I've no faith he'll maintain that large a difference, but also, he's only taking those shots on 14% of his total attempts, which is more what I was talking about. He's never going to be a guy who relentlessly pressures the rim because he lacks the athleticism to do it. He's got handles, and he gets into that region more than the raw FGA suggest, and he does DRIVE quite a lot (among the most in the league so far this season, actually, and also last season). But it's not the same thing. And he's not going to get to the point where he's getting there on 25 or 30% of his attempts, which is a limitation on his overall efficiency.

I have faith in his shooting. I'm pretty sure he won't be a 31% 3P shooter all year, and he's proven himself an elite mid-range guy basically his entire career. Plus, he's an excellent FT shooter. Shooting is one of his best skills, so I'm not too worried about that. But no one will mistake him for possessing elite quickness, and that will never change, which caps his ability to do certain things. Same as anyone else without that quickness, or guys who had it and aged out.

[whitehops]

i think the more people watch cade they'll realize how good he is. luckily the pistons have more national tv games this year. i remember this off season there was a thread about best lob throwers and cade didn't even get a mention, despite him throwing the most lob passes last year. pretty much every game he throws a lob that you wouldn't think possible. and he gets into the paint at will (pistons lead the league in paint scoring) and can score from anywhere on the court. he has the SGA bump middy, can pull up when defenders go under the screen, can post up your wings or bigs, etc.

essentially whatever he needs to do on the court he can do, which makes it incredibly hard for opponents to defend. a lot of times you'll see a player go off and think "oh, they got hot" but with cade it's like he's controlling the entire game. it's hard to describe so i just recommend people watch him play. this season he seems to "coast" and get his teammates involved in the first 2-3 quarters and then takes over in the 4th if needed - he leads the league in 4th quarter scoring.

This is why I keep coming back to this site. In a month, NBA media will be talking about Cade, since this is where they get their talking points half the time. Former #1 pick and you'd think he was Markelle Fultz from the lack of coverage. That kind of makes me mad, now that I think about it.

Dude should be in the NBA marketing materials a lot more than he is.

this off season til now the nba media have been pushing him a lot more. it took frustratingly long but i'm glad he's getting the exposure he deserves.

[tmorgan]

Cade with an absolute stank butt first half and a really nice second half… again.

Posterizing Drummond was a nice extra gift. Let’s exorcise some of those extra bad Pistons vibes.

[MrBigShot]

Early in his career Cade absolutely sucked at getting to the line. When he did get there, he struggled to finish. Last year he was a turnover machine, and struggled to keep control of the ball under pressure at the end of the games.

Slowly but surely, he has shored his weaknesses up. His assists are up, his turnovers are down, and he's coming through at the end of games. He gets into the paint at will and puts an enormous amount of pressure on the defense. He's strong enough to hold his own defensively and can take any guard or wing you put on him into the post.

Watching him since he came into the league I always had confidence he could be this good, and better, because he's such a smart player, and has a great head on his shoulders. He's getting blitzed and double teamed every game and still dominating. Next step for him is to become more consistent shooting the 3 ball.

[Chuck Everett]

I'm telling you guys, this guy is reaching his enormous potential and as has been mentioned, he's an f'n leader. His mates look to him to lead them. Anyone commits a hard foul on Cade, they better prepare for war (or a street fight).

[chilluminati]

Early in his career Cade absolutely sucked at getting to the line. When he did get there, he struggled to finish. Last year he was a turnover machine, and struggled to keep control of the ball under pressure at the end of the games.

Slowly but surely, he has shored his weaknesses up. His assists are up, his turnovers are down, and he's coming through at the end of games. He gets into the paint at will and puts an enormous amount of pressure on the defense. He's strong enough to hold his own defensively and can take any guard or wing you put on him into the post.

Watching him since he came into the league I always had confidence he could be this good, and better, because he's such a smart player, and has a great head on his shoulders. He's getting blitzed and double teamed every game and still dominating. Next step for him is to become more consistent shooting the 3 ball.

That growth was on full display tonight.

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[GrindCityHustle]

He has taken the next step. Dude is so smooth going to the basket. It's really nice to watch.

[CodeBreaker]

Hes finally hitting his stride now as the player he was projected to be since last sesson. I believe hes going to start at pg for team usa in the olympics.

Him at PG and Edwards at SG would be dope

[Kalamazoo317]

Cade's athleticism is incredibly underrated, imo. The reason he's not constantly putting pressure on the rim is threefold:

1. We have really below average spacing as a team, which means the paint is usually clogged
2. Cade draws a ton of attention up and down the court and typically has 2-3 guys draped on him by the time he's even in position to drive to the rim
3. Cade makes the right decision and is typically going to pass to Duren in that situation, which results in some of the best rim pressure in the league

The Cade/Duren two man game has the potential to be an elite offensive engine, imo, so long as we get enough spacing around it (could use just a bit more).

[zeebneeb]

Cade's athleticism is incredibly underrated, imo. The reason he's not constantly putting pressure on the rim is threefold:

1. We have really below average spacing as a team, which means the paint is usually clogged
2. Cade draws a ton of attention up and down the court and typically has 2-3 guys draped on him by the time he's even in position to drive to the rim
3. Cade makes the right decision and is typically going to pass to Duren in that situation, which results in some of the best rim pressure in the league

The Cade/Duren two man game has the potential to be an elite offensive engine, imo, so long as we get enough spacing around it (could use just a bit more).

Insert Ivey (40% 3P shooter) and Beasley. (42% 3P shooter). Man, its gonna be fun on the bun!

[Invictus88]

Yeah but I do think the Pistons have built a good young team around Cade.

Cade, Ivey, Ausar, Holland, Duren

They have, which is a big part of why they will be very successful, for sure. Good chemistry all around.

I think they can collectively become and efficient scoring group where Cade can work on efficiency game over volume.

He can, but unless he gets a lot more athletic, he isn't going to suddenly become a major rim-pressure guy, which is largest impediment to scoring efficiency. He's already an excellent mid-range shooter, and this early start notwithstanding, he'd improved notably from 3 the past two years. There's going to be some level of cap to his ability as a scorer. Which is fine, because if he wasn't, then we'd all be having very different conversations about his potential career arc (e.g. they'd be even more flattering for him).

Detroit's good, and Cade is very good. Like basically any player who isn't threatening to be the best in the entire league, though, he has his limitations.

I will say, I wish we had him on Toronto, heh.

Actually, Cade is becoming a better rim pressure guy. Sample size, yeah, but his increased strength is helping him finish and also draw fouls. That’s the one part of his scoring that HAS been good this year. It’s his shooting, both mid-range and from three, that’s off to a slow start.

72% at the rim thus far, career 60.5%.

Yeah. He has been WAY better attacking the rim this year. It's not even close. Tsherkin is clearly not watching his games as of late. And if that is the primary impediment he mentions then he needs to reevaluate his outlook.