NBA Trade Thread #13

[Infinity2152]

AD has had 2 seasons of 41 games or less (half season) in his whole career. His median season is around 65 games or so. 64, 67, 68, 61, 75, 75, 56, 62, 36, 40, 56, 76, 51. This missing half the season is such an over exaggeration. He had a three-year run where he missed a lot of games and he's a big man playing 36 minutes a game.

8 seasons of 60+ games out of 13. He's not Zion. And he wouldn't be expected to play 36 minutes here either.

[nomorezorro]

i don't really see what incentive the mavericks have to trade him for fire sale prices

They don’t have their own picks from 2027-30 (Yes they really **** up this bad)

This is the only draft where they’ll have a shot to add another Dude.

didn't realize they still had this year's first; that makes it a lot more plausible than i thought. my bad!

[prolific passer]

Mavs have Flagg, Lively, and Christie to build around.

[kodo]

Ja is forcing his way out of Memphis so hard I wonder if the Bulls could afford him.
Last 5:

28% FG% 17% 3P 5.8 TOV

[Infinity2152]

Bulls look like a Cinderella team now. Everybody playing hard, the sum of the whole better than the sum of the parts. It could be really detrimental adding talent and temperaments that don't fit. Ja can't play off ball and can't shoot, we'd have to take lead guard from Giddey. I'd advocate for guys like AD, JJJ, even Brandon Ingram over Ja, even though he is arguably just as talented or more. They could fit in much better with how we're playing.

I'm actually afraid we're going to be the team that ends up with Ja, unfortunately. Much more afraid than trading for AD or JJJ, and Coby's likely included.

[Indomitable]

Bulls look like a Cinderella team now. Everybody playing hard, the sum of the whole better than the sum of the parts. It could be really detrimental adding talent and temperaments that don't fit. Ja can't play off ball and can't shoot, we'd have to take lead guard from Giddey. I'd advocate for guys like AD, JJJ, even Brandon Ingram over Ja, even though he is arguably just as talented or more. They could fit in much better with how we're playing.

I'm actually fairly afraid we're going to be the team that ends up with Ja, unfortunately. Much more afraid than trading for AD or JJJ, and Coby's likely included.

Why? When was the last time we brought in a cancer. This is not happening

[Infinity2152]

Bulls look like a Cinderella team now. Everybody playing hard, the sum of the whole better than the sum of the parts. It could be really detrimental adding talent and temperaments that don't fit. Ja can't play off ball and can't shoot, we'd have to take lead guard from Giddey. I'd advocate for guys like AD, JJJ, even Brandon Ingram over Ja, even though he is arguably just as talented or more. They could fit in much better with how we're playing.

I'm actually fairly afraid we're going to be the team that ends up with Ja, unfortunately. Much more afraid than trading for AD or JJJ, and Coby's likely included.

Why? When was the last time we brought in a cancer. This is not happening

Man, I hope you're right. Out of all the potential trades brought up, that's just the one that scares me the most. I do think we're getting a big ticket player before all these contracts expire, but if the Bulls keep playing well, they just may ride it out. Can say the Bulls definitely focus on character players. Morant's story has been pretty rough. I've heard many NBA players tell the stories where the team they got drafted to, the vets there, the environment, led a lot of guys out of the league. Sometimes they were the vets setting the bad examples, lol.

Don't know that he's a cancer so much as rich, talented immature young guy that wants to look tough, looking for likes and validation. Basically just know the general media presentation of him, think his dad and family have not been the best influences either.

Hasn't Dillon Brooks been like a team captain/vet for him most of his career? No other real vets on the squad?

[nhasko]

Vucevic, Pat, Terry and POR 1st is what I would offer for AD

[coldfish]

I wouldn't touch AD. His contract is simply too high. His age and injury concerns too great. Wouldn't give expirings for him. It would just be another Lonzo Ball / Derrick post ACL situation where one player and their contract kills the whole team.

[MikeDC]

My offer for AD would be insulting.

[Muzbar]

Hell no to Anthony 'street clothes' Davis.

[Repeat 3-peat]

Yeah I'm not sure about trading for AD, an offer would definitely (or should) be similar to what 'nhasko' proposed, but even then as CF wrote, the contract would kill this team when he misses time. But when healthy, he's a top 10 player, a reason to not completely dismiss the idea.

[sco]

IDK, I look at picking up guys in terms of opportunity cost. Who are we not going to be able to sign for that $60M? I think the key is including PWill in the deal to effectively make it $40M. But if we get AD at the cost of keeping Vuc, Ayo, Huerter and Collins, but can keep Coby, I'd think hard about it. The other key would be how many 1sts would need to be added? One, I'd do, Two, maybe, three, NO.

[jnrjr79]

i don't really see what incentive the mavericks have to trade him for fire sale prices

They control their draft pick this year, then don't have one in 2027, and don't control their picks in 2029 and 2030. So, this is the year for a tank if they want another big piece to pair with Flagg.

[jnrjr79]

Why are people so scared for the Bulls to make a risky play for a player that fits? I swear, every single trade for a major player gets hit with resistance. Most in here say they want us to get a top 10-15 player. Nobody wants to pay what it costs to get one. You're either going to deal with age and injury risks or giving up a ton of picks. Should we give up 5 firsts instead of two to get one with average injury risk, or just not get one?

There has to be a balance. AD plays a LOT of minutes for a center, averages 35-36 minutes most years. Played center a lot when he wants to be at PF. Most big guys who play that many minutes are injured a lot. Check the stats. We could have a special season if we trade for AD and keep Vucevic and our main guys.

I'm not going to ignore the fact that these guys look great right now. A JJJ or AD boost, they look like a top team. Without a "superstar". Who knows what the league looks like next year, and I don't think AD's contract would cripple us even if he plays 60 gms/season next 2-3 seasons.

He's literally everything you want in a PF, once you discount his price for injury risk. He's played at least 60 games 8 of his 13 seasons, what's the average for 7 footers?

Re: the bolded, the "why" is really easy to answer, regardless of whether you agree or not. Most players that are big names and become available are highly paid and have some sort of black mark - age, injuries, etc. Other than obviously the insane Luka trade, reliable young stars barely ever become available. So, doing a trade for AD or Zion or Ja or whoever is just a massive risk. It potentially has high upside, but you may also wreck your team doing it (and there are many examples of teams acquiring big names in recent years and having it blow up in their faces). So, some people prefer an "organic" build via the draft and more measured free agency signings. You obviously disagree with that approach, but it's not a hard approach to understand.

[jnrjr79]

i don't really see what incentive the mavericks have to trade him for fire sale prices

They don’t have their own picks from 2027-30 (Yes they really **** up this bad)

This is the only draft where they’ll have a shot to add another Dude.

Right. It's basically imperative that they tank this year, given their current situation. Just avoiding the wins Davis would bring if healthy is reason enough to deal him, let alone whatever you can get in return. They are in a tough spot. And the new GM will have the leeway to do it, because firing Nico will placate the fan base and the new guy(s) can say "we have to fix the mess he made."

[jnrjr79]

Easy blueprint for Mavs: Trade Klay Thompson for expirings, AD for expirings, young players, picks. Tank hard this season.

Let's say AD, Brandon Willams for Collins, Huerter, Williams and two firsts. Clear $36 mill with Huerter and Collins in the summer. Expirings for Klay gives you another $16 mill. Probably re-sign Huerter.

Get a high draft pick, say a SG, they're looking at Irving, Rookie, PJ Washington, Flagg, Lively, Gafford, Christie, Russell, much more cap space and extra picks. If one of those picks is a 2026 pick, even better. Add two rookies to Flagg and the bunch. Much younger team quickly, still talented.

Could be another team of course, but similar type trade, they're much better off.

Pat's contract would pretty much have to be included in any AD trade, of course. I really wish somebody could pull up injury numbers for 7 footers playing 34-36 minutes a game the last 15 years or so, so we could see if he's really "injury prone" compared to the average 7 footer. Wonder what that would look like. Do we just not want players 7ft or taller? Who wants that Wemby, Holgrem type center, they've played less games than AD the last two years, lol. Played more than Walker Kessler, guess he's out. No Porzingas, Embid of course. Who's left besides Jokic and Vucevic? KAT played 7 more games than AD over the last 2 years, guess he sticks. But he played 29 the year before.

It's actually fairly easy to match salaries without Pat in the deal if Dallas doesn't want to take on that contract. Vooch + Collins + Huerter for Davis and Powell works. Vooch + Collins + Coby works for Davis in the event the Bulls have somehow decided they want to move on from Coby, though I'd probably prefer to separately trade Coby in that event for something more draft-focused.

[prolific passer]

I wouldnt mind Zion as he is still young enough to turn it around and I believe he has said some positive things about the bulls the last few years. He finally got into shape because Dumars sold him some hope for the pels which isnt going well right now. Zion coming down the floor in the bulls fast break offense that they are running and Giddey throwing lobs to him would be something.

[Infinity2152]

IDK, I look at picking up guys in terms of opportunity cost. Who are we not going to be able to sign for that $60M? I think the key is including PWill in the deal to effectively make it $40M. But if we get AD at the cost of keeping Vuc, Ayo, Huerter and Collins, but can keep Coby, I'd think hard about it. The other key would be how many 1sts would need to be added? One, I'd do, Two, maybe, three, NO.

Opportunity cost is the big thing, I agree. Potential AD trade includes us getting a good deal, no more than two firsts, imo.

Games played last two years:
Jonas Valenciunas 163
Jarret Allen 159
Brook Lopez 159
Nikola Jokic- 149
Nikola Vucevic 149
Myles Turner -149
Bam Adebayo- 149
Ivaca Zubac 148
Rudy Gobert 148
Nic Claxton 141
Jaren Jackson Jr 140

Alperen Sengun 139
Karl Anthony Towns-134
Isaiah Hartenstein- 132
Daniel Gafford 131

Clint Capela 128
Anthony Davis-127
Jusef Nurkic 127
Al Horford -125
Wendell Carter Jr- 123
Walker Kessler 122
Kelly Olynyk 122
Mason Plumlee 120

Andre Drummond 119
Victor Wembanyama 117
Chet Holgrem 114
Jakob Poetl 107
Steven Adams 100
Kristap Porzingas 99
DeAndre Ayton 95
DeAndre Jordan 92
Derrick Lively 91
Joel Embid-58

Notice almost every center that played more than 140 is 29 or older? AD plays more minutes on both ends than almost all those guys. AD doesn't look more injury prone than the average center who gets big minutes. His average games played last two years is 63.5, career median around 65. Puts him around the median.

JJJ is one of the few young ones, guys have called him injury prone, too expensive, and don't sign him because of his rebounding.

[Infinity2152]

Why are people so scared for the Bulls to make a risky play for a player that fits? I swear, every single trade for a major player gets hit with resistance. Most in here say they want us to get a top 10-15 player. Nobody wants to pay what it costs to get one. You're either going to deal with age and injury risks or giving up a ton of picks. Should we give up 5 firsts instead of two to get one with average injury risk, or just not get one?

There has to be a balance. AD plays a LOT of minutes for a center, averages 35-36 minutes most years. Played center a lot when he wants to be at PF. Most big guys who play that many minutes are injured a lot. Check the stats. We could have a special season if we trade for AD and keep Vucevic and our main guys.

I'm not going to ignore the fact that these guys look great right now. A JJJ or AD boost, they look like a top team. Without a "superstar". Who knows what the league looks like next year, and I don't think AD's contract would cripple us even if he plays 60 gms/season next 2-3 seasons.

He's literally everything you want in a PF, once you discount his price for injury risk. He's played at least 60 games 8 of his 13 seasons, what's the average for 7 footers?

Re: the bolded, the "why" is really easy to answer, regardless of whether you agree or not. Most players that are big names and become available are highly paid and have some sort of black mark - age, injuries, etc. Other than obviously the insane Luka trade, reliable young stars barely ever become available. So, doing a trade for AD or Zion or Ja or whoever is just a massive risk. It potentially has high upside, but you may also wreck your team doing it (and there are many examples of teams acquiring big names in recent years and having it blow up in their faces). So, some people prefer an "organic" build via the draft and more measured free agency signings. You obviously disagree with that approach, but it's not a hard approach to understand.

I get the build organically approach. You have to draft high end rookies for "organically" to work. Not Coby White, Daniel Gafford, Pat Williams, Dalen Terry, Julian Phillips, Ayo Dosunmu, Marko Simonovic.

We're building organically but continuing to get rid of every single player. Check last season forums to see how many people did not want to pay Giddey as a starter. How many want Vucevic gone now. How many wanted Ball, Lavine, Derozan gone. Want Pat Williams gone. Dalen Terry and Julian Phillips gone. Okoro gone. How many do NOT want to pay Coby $30+ mill. Still a debate on re-signing Ayo.

We are going to have to add at least 6-7 players next year, you guys can prepare to be mad about every contract, lmao! We're adding free agents and traded players before the end of next summer even if we re-sign every expiring player.

Tell me the "organically built" team that's great without at least one max contract. Guys here are losing their minds over every single max contract suggestion, without fail. It's real easy to do nothing, rather than trying to make moves to improve. All doing nothing does is waste Coby's year at $12 mill, Matas on rookie salary, Giddey at $25 mill, cheap team that might win the East with one trade of non-essential players. AD plays his average 65 games, Bulls are a top seed. Same with JJJ. We're way too good to tank and add a high draft pick player already.

Spurs build organically, traded for De Aaron Fox. Rocket organically, traded for KD. Warriors added KD. Celtics started organically, all types of free agent adds. Pacers added Siakam. Magic, Desmond Bane. At some point organic teams add a top FA/Trade player.