Top 25 peaks of the 2001-25: #19-#20 Spots

[70sFan]

We might want to consider getting someone else to run the project and getting these voting threads down to 5 days in order to move things along. I'd also say that certain people who aren't even voting and are resorting to throwing out insults at people who are might benefit from some time in the penalty box. My .02.

If the others don't mind, I can take over as temporary project commish like with the 2019 peaks project until 70sFan is back.
Not sure about the entire order but top two vote getters have been comfortably Davis and Luka throughout this entire round.

Firstly, let me apologize for the lack of consistency in running the project. I had extremely busy time in the last 2 weeks and I hope that will end after Thursday.

If the participants prefer to change the project manager, I won't feel bad about it because I understand that could be frustrating to participate with fuzzy deadlines. If you don't mind though, I will try to do better in the next rounds, because I feel that I have the worst days behind myself.

Questions to anyone who is familiar with the Kemeny Young method: Is it mathematically possible for candidates appearing on under half the number of ballots of others to win at all? Given we are only interested in the top 2 and their order, can't we prune a lot of the other candidates? For example, the difference in ranking score between ABCD...XYZ and BACD...XYZ is just the H2H count between A and B. The order of the long chain of candidates afterwards is inconsequential. By eliminating those who have zero chance of winning, I'm thinking we can reduce the O(n!) complexity considerably. Or am I way off here?

Don't mind waiting for mod approval to takeover but we are also nearing 4 days past the deadline. And there is 75% of the project still to go...

Thank you for stepping up LA Bird. Let's give it another day, and also see if anyone can answer:

How can we most easily replicate 70s method if we need to move on without him?

One other thing though, I want to make sure I'm on the right page here: What do you mean 75%? I was under the impression it was supposed to run as a trio of 25 thread projects. Do you have a different understanding?

I can provide the code calculating the results. Using Kemeny-method with so many candidates would take days to calculate.

Anyway, I will end the round today within next few hours after collecting the votes.

[ReggiesKnicks]

We might want to consider getting someone else to run the project and getting these voting threads down to 5 days in order to move things along. I'd also say that certain people who aren't even voting and are resorting to throwing out insults at people who are might benefit from some time in the penalty box. My .02.

If the others don't mind, I can take over as temporary project commish like with the 2019 peaks project until 70sFan is back.
Not sure about the entire order but top two vote getters have been comfortably Davis and Luka throughout this entire round.

Firstly, let me apologize for the lack of consistency in running the project. I had extremely busy time in the last 2 weeks and I hope that will end after Thursday.

If the participants prefer to change the project manager, I won't feel bad about it because I understand that could be frustrating to participate with fuzzy deadlines. If you don't mind though, I will try to do better in the next rounds, because I feel that I have the worst days behind myself.

Questions to anyone who is familiar with the Kemeny Young method: Is it mathematically possible for candidates appearing on under half the number of ballots of others to win at all? Given we are only interested in the top 2 and their order, can't we prune a lot of the other candidates? For example, the difference in ranking score between ABCD...XYZ and BACD...XYZ is just the H2H count between A and B. The order of the long chain of candidates afterwards is inconsequential. By eliminating those who have zero chance of winning, I'm thinking we can reduce the O(n!) complexity considerably. Or am I way off here?

Don't mind waiting for mod approval to takeover but we are also nearing 4 days past the deadline. And there is 75% of the project still to go...

Thank you for stepping up LA Bird. Let's give it another day, and also see if anyone can answer:

How can we most easily replicate 70s method if we need to move on without him?

One other thing though, I want to make sure I'm on the right page here: What do you mean 75%? I was under the impression it was supposed to run as a trio of 25 thread projects. Do you have a different understanding?

I can provide the code calculating the results. Using Kemeny-method with so many candidates would take days to calculate.

Anyway, I will end the round today within next few hours after collecting the votes.

I think we should simply have a Co-Manager or Vice Manager. You have been doing an exceptional job

[Djoker]

Two thoughts.

1) Let 70sFan continue running this. He's back now and everyone goes through busy spells. He's been doing a phenomenal job.

2) Keep the Kemeny method. It's what we've been using so far. As a few above said, no need to make changes mid-project.

[70sFan]

20. 2020/21 Joel Embiid (HM: 2022/23)

The hardest player to rank for obvious reasons. I decided to go with 2020/21. Even with the injuries and disappointing end of the Hawks series, I think that Embiid is more valuable than anyone else left. I wish I had more time to do some deep dive on his defensive abilities, but I am fine with younger version. 2023 Embiid is still a good rim protector, but he was very sluggish outside the paint.

21. 2008/09 Dwight Howard (HM: 2010/11, 2009/10)

I think the discussion in this project made me even lower on Dwight, but I can't see him outside top 25. He's an excellent defensive presence inside and although he had a lot of weaknesses offensively, his strengths were very hard to gameplan against (though it's possible with the right personel).

22. 2002/03 Tracy Mcgrady

23. 2021/22 Jimmy Butler (HM: 2019/20, 2022/23

[70sFan]

Voting results

Votes:

Spoiler:

Code: Select all

       
        "Djoker": ["Anthony Davis", "Joel Embiid", "Luka Doncic", "Tracy McGrady"],
        "One_and_Done": ["Luka Doncic", "Jimmy Butler", "Tracy McGrady", "Anthony Davis"],
        "trelos6": ["Anthony Davis", "Jimmy Butler", "Luka Doncic", "Joel Embiid"],
        "-Luke-": ["Anthony Davis", "Luka Doncic", "Joel Embiid", "Jayson Tatum"],
        "DraymondGold": ["Joel Embiid", "Anthony Davis", "Luka Doncic", "Tracy McGrady"],
        "lessthanjake": ["Anthony Davis", "Luka Doncic", "Jayson Tatum", "Jimmy Butler"],
        "Cavsfansince84": ["Luka Doncic", "Anthony Davis", "Jimmy Butler", "Jayson Tatum"],
        "Docor MJ": ["Luka Doncic", "Jayson Tatum", "Anthony Davis", "Jimmy Butler"],
        "eminence": ["Jayson Tatum", "Joel Embiid", "Ben Wallace", "Russell Westbrook"],
        "Jaivl": ["Anthony Davis", "Tracy McGrady", "Joel Embiid", "Luka Doncic"],
        "TrueLAfan": ["Luka Doncic", "Russell Westbrook", "Anthony Davis", "Tracy McGrady"],
        "70sFan": ["Anthony Davis", "Joel Embiid", "Luka Doncic", "Dwight Howard"]

Number of voters: 12

Best Kemeny score:

Spoiler:

1. Anthony Davis
2. Luka Doncic
3. Joel Embiid
4. Jayson Tatum
5. Jimmy Butler
6. Tracy McGrady
7. Ben Wallace
8. Russell Westbrook
9. Dwight Howard
Kemeny score: 251

Top 25 peaks of the 2001-25: #19-#20 Spots:

#19. 2019/20 Anthony Davis



#20. 2023/24 Luka Doncic

[Doctor MJ]

We might want to consider getting someone else to run the project and getting these voting threads down to 5 days in order to move things along. I'd also say that certain people who aren't even voting and are resorting to throwing out insults at people who are might benefit from some time in the penalty box. My .02.

If the others don't mind, I can take over as temporary project commish like with the 2019 peaks project until 70sFan is back.
Not sure about the entire order but top two vote getters have been comfortably Davis and Luka throughout this entire round.

Firstly, let me apologize for the lack of consistency in running the project. I had extremely busy time in the last 2 weeks and I hope that will end after Thursday.

If the participants prefer to change the project manager, I won't feel bad about it because I understand that could be frustrating to participate with fuzzy deadlines. If you don't mind though, I will try to do better in the next rounds, because I feel that I have the worst days behind myself.

Questions to anyone who is familiar with the Kemeny Young method: Is it mathematically possible for candidates appearing on under half the number of ballots of others to win at all? Given we are only interested in the top 2 and their order, can't we prune a lot of the other candidates? For example, the difference in ranking score between ABCD...XYZ and BACD...XYZ is just the H2H count between A and B. The order of the long chain of candidates afterwards is inconsequential. By eliminating those who have zero chance of winning, I'm thinking we can reduce the O(n!) complexity considerably. Or am I way off here?

Don't mind waiting for mod approval to takeover but we are also nearing 4 days past the deadline. And there is 75% of the project still to go...

Thank you for stepping up LA Bird. Let's give it another day, and also see if anyone can answer:

How can we most easily replicate 70s method if we need to move on without him?

One other thing though, I want to make sure I'm on the right page here: What do you mean 75%? I was under the impression it was supposed to run as a trio of 25 thread projects. Do you have a different understanding?

I can provide the code calculating the results. Using Kemeny-method with so many candidates would take days to calculate.

Anyway, I will end the round today within next few hours after collecting the votes.

Hey 70s, hope you’re well!

To be clear, I don’t think we should replace you if you’re available to do the job, but real life with real children is the more important job.

If you think your availability will be spotty after this first 25 project is over, I think you should consider taking on a partner or partners.

If you’d like to talk to me via PM feel free, but to be clear, no reason it has to be me. I’ve been enjoying not having that responsibility.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[ShotCreator]

Westbrook was occupying 2-3 panicky, overhelping defenders on his drives in his sleep from 2014-2017, while being able to make practically any pass with either hand at any speed. You put him on a team like 2021 Suns and you would’ve seen ridiculously high level shot making and foul drawing, next to guys who can actually make shots and create their own.


It’s ironic, I didn’t even see this discussion but I said it in the Jokic thread last night, Westbrook is brutally underrated now. And I’m glad LA Bird actually brought metrics to empirically show that.


When he retires, I think he’ll get somewhat of a boost, and hopefully soon because I will have an aneurysm if I have to read people say Cade Cunningham or Darius Garland are about peak Westbrook level.

Here I'll say I'm glad you're putting forth a specific example.

You think that the 2021 Suns, presumably with Westbrook in Paul's place, would have been really, really good. How good exactly is not made clear so I'll ask: How would that Westbrook Suns team do against the KD Warriors?

If that doesn't seem like a fair comparison, why not? What else do we need to add?

I reject that this is a valid way to measure a player. I was talking about Westbrook’s ability to positively affect EFG%, TOV %, and FTR. I do regret that I didn't just mention 2013 OKC, who were elite in EFG% and Ftr, and had the #1 offense in the NBA as a well as a 9+ SRS raring. I’m looking at the previous replies, I realize this is more about Durant vs. Westbrook somehow than Westbrook’s quality general.

I’ll just say this, there are probably not even 10 teams better than the 2016 GSW to begin with.

So demanding a realistic scenario when wanting a hypothetical better team than that + an MVP level guy in his prime is kind of crazy.

Not that I don’t think I could do it, if you replace 2014 Tony Parker with a 28 year old Westbrook, you are getting one of the best offenses of all-time with a really strong defense. With Westbrook being the clear #1.

But to me, that’s not even fun to think about. It’s as absurd as the 17 Warriors though for sure.

Secondly, Kevin Durant is not this team-friendly guy in reality. I think we can dismiss that by now.

https://www.oklahoman.com/story/sports/nba/thunder/2013/11/06/kevin-durant-brushes-off-potential-slight-from-former-thunder-guard-kevin-martin/60868560007/


Kevin Durant, when boiled down his most habitual and most comfortable, is a ball dominator and on-ball creator at-heart. His clashes with Draymond primarily came from this in GS, And Kerr went out of his way to publicly call him out on multiple occasions, especially in the playoffs about this.

https://warriorswire.usatoday.com/story/sports/nba/warriors/2018/05/24/steve-kerr-michael-jordan-story-durant-pass-the-ball-video/76270652007/

https://www.nbcsports.com/nba/news/warriors-coach-steve-kerr-were-not-moving-the-ball-kevin-durant-we-pass-the-ball-too-much

[Top10alltime]

Voting results

Votes:

Spoiler:

Code: Select all

       
        "Djoker": ["Anthony Davis", "Joel Embiid", "Luka Doncic", "Tracy McGrady"],
        "One_and_Done": ["Luka Doncic", "Jimmy Butler", "Tracy McGrady", "Anthony Davis"],
        "trelos6": ["Anthony Davis", "Jimmy Butler", "Luka Doncic", "Joel Embiid"],
        "-Luke-": ["Anthony Davis", "Luka Doncic", "Joel Embiid", "Jayson Tatum"],
        "DraymondGold": ["Joel Embiid", "Anthony Davis", "Luka Doncic", "Tracy McGrady"],
        "lessthanjake": ["Anthony Davis", "Luka Doncic", "Jayson Tatum", "Jimmy Butler"],
        "Cavsfansince84": ["Luka Doncic", "Anthony Davis", "Jimmy Butler", "Jayson Tatum"],
        "Docor MJ": ["Luka Doncic", "Jayson Tatum", "Anthony Davis", "Jimmy Butler"],
        "eminence": ["Jayson Tatum", "Joel Embiid", "Ben Wallace", "Russell Westbrook"],
        "Jaivl": ["Anthony Davis", "Tracy McGrady", "Joel Embiid", "Luka Doncic"],
        "TrueLAfan": ["Luka Doncic", "Russell Westbrook", "Anthony Davis", "Tracy McGrady"],
        "70sFan": ["Anthony Davis", "Joel Embiid", "Luka Doncic", "Dwight Howard"]

Number of voters: 12

Best Kemeny score:

Spoiler:

1. Anthony Davis
2. Luka Doncic
3. Joel Embiid
4. Jayson Tatum
5. Jimmy Butler
6. Tracy McGrady
7. Ben Wallace
8. Russell Westbrook
9. Dwight Howard
Kemeny score: 251

Top 25 peaks of the 2001-25: #19-#20 Spots:

#19. 2019/20 Anthony Davis



#20. 2023/24 Luka Doncic

This is ridiculous. Joel Embiid outside the top 20 peaks of the 2000s. RealGM has just proven, they are evaluating Embiid in nothing but bias, when it comes to Embiid, because they hate him. There is no objective argument whatsoever, for Embiid to be outside top 20 peaks in the 2000s.
Noone should ever take RealGM seriously, when evaluating some players like Embiid. Some players, RealGM evaluates very very well. Others? They are worse than casuals at.

[Top10alltime]

Are these the same Hawks that took out the Knicks with Rose, Randle, and Barrett?

They managed THAT? How is that even possible??????? Truly a juggernaut team.

I never said this. I said they were an underrated team, and Embiid was carrying KG Wolves level of trash squad to a 7th game against the Hawks, who were an underrated team. It's really hypocritical for you guys to say that "Embiid lost to the Hawks", while he and Danny was injured while still outscoring him, when the same guy who went right below freaking KG (should be nowhere close), went 2-2 against the Hawks in, all while..... outscoring them.

Since everyone is so low on Embiid in the playoffs, I'll just leave this here (comparison to where he should've been, in the 04 KG to 25 Shai tiers) No garbage time included

21 Embiid on: +9.4 rORtg, and -7.9 rDRtg. A +17.4 NRTG overall
21 Embiid on/off: +25.3 on/off

04 KG on: +5.8 rORtg, and +3.1 rDRtg. A +2.7 NRTG overall
04 KG on/off: +27.0 on/off

21 Giannis on: -2.1 rORtg, and -9.8 rDRtg. A +7.7 NRTG overall
21 Giannis on/off: +8.1 on/off

06 Wade on: +1.4 rORtg, and -6.3 rDRtg. A +7.7 NRTG overall
06 Wade on/off: +24.2 on/off

17 Kawhi on: +10.6 rORtg, and -1.8 rDRtg. A +12.5 NRTG overall
17 Kawhi on/off: +24.0 on/off

25 Shai on: +2.6 rORtg, and -5.9 rDRtg. A +8.5 NRTG overall
25 Shai on/off: +2.6 on/off

Embiid: #2 offense led, #2 defense led, and #1 team led (by like 5 points). #2 on/off
KG: #3 offense led, worst defense led, and worst team led. #1 on/off
Giannis: worst offense led, #1 defense led, and 2nd worst team led. 2nd worst on/off
Wade: 2nd worst offense led, #3 defense led, and 2nd worst team led. #3 on/off
Kawhi: #1 offense led, 2nd worst defense led, and #2 team led. #4 on/off
Shai: #4 offense led, #4 defense led, and #3 team led. Worst on/off

Embiid is easily here, and it's ridiculous that RealGM hates him so much, they left him off the top 20, when he is top 10.

[70sFan]

Voting results

Votes:

Spoiler:

Code: Select all

       
        "Djoker": ["Anthony Davis", "Joel Embiid", "Luka Doncic", "Tracy McGrady"],
        "One_and_Done": ["Luka Doncic", "Jimmy Butler", "Tracy McGrady", "Anthony Davis"],
        "trelos6": ["Anthony Davis", "Jimmy Butler", "Luka Doncic", "Joel Embiid"],
        "-Luke-": ["Anthony Davis", "Luka Doncic", "Joel Embiid", "Jayson Tatum"],
        "DraymondGold": ["Joel Embiid", "Anthony Davis", "Luka Doncic", "Tracy McGrady"],
        "lessthanjake": ["Anthony Davis", "Luka Doncic", "Jayson Tatum", "Jimmy Butler"],
        "Cavsfansince84": ["Luka Doncic", "Anthony Davis", "Jimmy Butler", "Jayson Tatum"],
        "Docor MJ": ["Luka Doncic", "Jayson Tatum", "Anthony Davis", "Jimmy Butler"],
        "eminence": ["Jayson Tatum", "Joel Embiid", "Ben Wallace", "Russell Westbrook"],
        "Jaivl": ["Anthony Davis", "Tracy McGrady", "Joel Embiid", "Luka Doncic"],
        "TrueLAfan": ["Luka Doncic", "Russell Westbrook", "Anthony Davis", "Tracy McGrady"],
        "70sFan": ["Anthony Davis", "Joel Embiid", "Luka Doncic", "Dwight Howard"]

Number of voters: 12

Best Kemeny score:

Spoiler:

1. Anthony Davis
2. Luka Doncic
3. Joel Embiid
4. Jayson Tatum
5. Jimmy Butler
6. Tracy McGrady
7. Ben Wallace
8. Russell Westbrook
9. Dwight Howard
Kemeny score: 251

Top 25 peaks of the 2001-25: #19-#20 Spots:

#19. 2019/20 Anthony Davis



#20. 2023/24 Luka Doncic

This is ridiculous. Joel Embiid outside the top 20 peaks of the 2000s. RealGM has just proven, they are evaluating Embiid in nothing but bias, when it comes to Embiid, because they hate him. There is no objective argument whatsoever, for Embiid to be outside top 20 peaks in the 2000s.
Noone should ever take RealGM seriously, when evaluating some players like Embiid. Some players, RealGM evaluates very very well. Others? They are worse than casuals at.

We understood, you don't like the outcome. Move on.

[Top10alltime]

Voting results

Votes:

Spoiler:

Code: Select all

       
        "Djoker": ["Anthony Davis", "Joel Embiid", "Luka Doncic", "Tracy McGrady"],
        "One_and_Done": ["Luka Doncic", "Jimmy Butler", "Tracy McGrady", "Anthony Davis"],
        "trelos6": ["Anthony Davis", "Jimmy Butler", "Luka Doncic", "Joel Embiid"],
        "-Luke-": ["Anthony Davis", "Luka Doncic", "Joel Embiid", "Jayson Tatum"],
        "DraymondGold": ["Joel Embiid", "Anthony Davis", "Luka Doncic", "Tracy McGrady"],
        "lessthanjake": ["Anthony Davis", "Luka Doncic", "Jayson Tatum", "Jimmy Butler"],
        "Cavsfansince84": ["Luka Doncic", "Anthony Davis", "Jimmy Butler", "Jayson Tatum"],
        "Docor MJ": ["Luka Doncic", "Jayson Tatum", "Anthony Davis", "Jimmy Butler"],
        "eminence": ["Jayson Tatum", "Joel Embiid", "Ben Wallace", "Russell Westbrook"],
        "Jaivl": ["Anthony Davis", "Tracy McGrady", "Joel Embiid", "Luka Doncic"],
        "TrueLAfan": ["Luka Doncic", "Russell Westbrook", "Anthony Davis", "Tracy McGrady"],
        "70sFan": ["Anthony Davis", "Joel Embiid", "Luka Doncic", "Dwight Howard"]

Number of voters: 12

Best Kemeny score:

Spoiler:

1. Anthony Davis
2. Luka Doncic
3. Joel Embiid
4. Jayson Tatum
5. Jimmy Butler
6. Tracy McGrady
7. Ben Wallace
8. Russell Westbrook
9. Dwight Howard
Kemeny score: 251

Top 25 peaks of the 2001-25: #19-#20 Spots:

#19. 2019/20 Anthony Davis



#20. 2023/24 Luka Doncic

This is ridiculous. Joel Embiid outside the top 20 peaks of the 2000s. RealGM has just proven, they are evaluating Embiid in nothing but bias, when it comes to Embiid, because they hate him. There is no objective argument whatsoever, for Embiid to be outside top 20 peaks in the 2000s.
Noone should ever take RealGM seriously, when evaluating some players like Embiid. Some players, RealGM evaluates very very well. Others? They are worse than casuals at.

We understood, you don't like the outcome. Move on.

I just don't understand how someone who, when healthy, averaged (OA/75) 36.6/8.8/3.4 on +21.7 opp adj rTS, and led a team that had +25.7 rORtg, and a -7.3 rDRtg, which was literally 1-1 without him. And in addition, he had an elite series with the Hawks where the 76ers literally completely relied on an injured Embiid to win every game for them.

You have 2023-24 Luka, and 2019-20 AD with postseasons worse than this, and they're getting praised for this. You have Shaq, and Wade, and Kawhi with similar playoffs performances, and they get utterly praised for this.

Like, the only time you dominate a playoffs of this caliber, and it gets called "mediocre" and "choking in the playoffs", as well as "disappointing", is only applied to Embiid, as well as a few others. That's it. I don't understand, how can you have a high-end elite, or fringe ATG playoffs performance, and it gets called this level.

Only Embiid gets this level of hate. It comes in spades with KD & Jokic, but it isn't more obvious than Embiid. And this is the mainstream media's opinion too. Coincidence? Perhaps not.

Also outside of this basketball discussion, I hope everything goes well with your kids! Christ bless you and them

[Cavsfansince84]

I just don't understand how someone who, when healthy, averaged (OA/75) 36.6/8.8/3.4 on +21.7 opp adj rTS, and led a team that had +25.7 rORtg, and a -7.3 rDRtg, which was literally 1-1 without him. And in addition, he had an elite series with the Hawks where the 76ers literally completely relied on an injured Embiid to win every game for them.

You have 2023-24 Luka, and 2019-20 AD with postseasons worse than this, and they're getting praised for this. You have Shaq, and Wade, and Kawhi with similar playoffs performances, and they get utterly praised for this.

Like, the only time you dominate a playoffs of this caliber, and it gets called "mediocre" and "choking in the playoffs", as well as "disappointing", is only applied to Embiid, as well as a few others. That's it. I don't understand, how can you have a high-end elite, or fringe ATG playoffs performance, and it gets called this level.

Only Embiid gets this level of hate. It comes in spades with KD & Jokic, but it isn't more obvious than Embiid. And this is the mainstream media's opinion too. Coincidence? Perhaps not.

Also outside of this basketball discussion, I hope everything goes well with your kids! Christ bless you and them

Does it ever occur to you that what you always refer to as hate may just be Embiid not meeting criteria that some people put a lot of emphasis on when it comes to what makes for a great peak? Here is what Embiid has working against him here:

1. games missed
2. the way his ppg and efficiency both tend to go drastically down in the playoffs
3. team playoff results
4. team record when he is out(it doesn't drop off near as much as the on/off impact number you use would suggest it might)

You can't just sweep all of this under the rug in favor of on/off which is pretty much what you do. You could at least admit that there's a lot of things he does not check and stop acting like people are being so dishonest in how they rank him.

[Top10alltime]

I just don't understand how someone who, when healthy, averaged (OA/75) 36.6/8.8/3.4 on +21.7 opp adj rTS, and led a team that had +25.7 rORtg, and a -7.3 rDRtg, which was literally 1-1 without him. And in addition, he had an elite series with the Hawks where the 76ers literally completely relied on an injured Embiid to win every game for them.

You have 2023-24 Luka, and 2019-20 AD with postseasons worse than this, and they're getting praised for this. You have Shaq, and Wade, and Kawhi with similar playoffs performances, and they get utterly praised for this.

Like, the only time you dominate a playoffs of this caliber, and it gets called "mediocre" and "choking in the playoffs", as well as "disappointing", is only applied to Embiid, as well as a few others. That's it. I don't understand, how can you have a high-end elite, or fringe ATG playoffs performance, and it gets called this level.

Only Embiid gets this level of hate. It comes in spades with KD & Jokic, but it isn't more obvious than Embiid. And this is the mainstream media's opinion too. Coincidence? Perhaps not.

Also outside of this basketball discussion, I hope everything goes well with your kids! Christ bless you and them

Does it ever occur to you that what you always refer to as hate may just be Embiid not meeting criteria that some people put a lot of emphasis on when it comes to what makes for a great peak? Here is what Embiid has working against him here:

1. games missed
2. the way his ppg and efficiency both tend to go drastically down in the playoffs
3. team playoff results
4. team record when he is out(it doesn't drop off near as much as the on/off impact number you use would infer it might)

You can't just sweep all of this under the rug in favor of on/off which is pretty much what you do. You could at least admit that there's a lot of things he does not check and stop acting like people are being so dishonest in how they rank him.

All of this is irrelevant in 2021, he checked all of those boxes. I am acting this way because it is the truth.

[Cavsfansince84]

All of this is irrelevant in 2021, he checked all of those boxes. I am acting this way because it is the truth.

No he most definitely did not. A 2nd loss to a 2.1 srs Hawks team is not checking all the boxes for him here. I mean you can blame his teammates all you want but this is the one playoff where Joel plays near to his rs level and he was great the first 2 games but it was still a 2nd rd exit. Luka in 2024 took out 2 top 3 teams by srs then loses in the finals to a team with one of the best srs in nba history. Plus he still missed 21 games in the rs.

[Top10alltime]

All of this is irrelevant in 2021, he checked all of those boxes. I am acting this way because it is the truth.

No he most definitely did not. A 2nd loss to a 2.1 srs Hawks team is not checking all the boxes for him here. I mean you can blame his teammates all you want but this is the one playoff where Joel plays near to his rs level and he was great the first 2 games but it was still a 2nd rd exit. Luka in 2024 took out 2 top 3 teams by srs then loses in the finals to a team with one of the best srs in nba history.

The 76ers was complete dog poop without him on the floor. He was injured and so was Danny Green. He played near his RS levels in 2024, as well, along with 2018. None of the blame should go on Embiid, he dragged a KG Timberwolves level squad to a game 7.

Luka had Kyrie, and a championship level defense, which is a squad that has a big chance of making the finals. Big difference.

[Cavsfansince84]

The 76ers was complete dog poop without him on the floor. He was injured and so was Danny Green. He played near his RS levels in 2024, as well, along with 2018. None of the blame should go on Embiid, he dragged a KG Timberwolves level squad to a game 7.

Luka had Kyrie, and a championship level defense, which is a squad that has a big chance of making the finals. Big difference.

In 2021 the Sixers were 10-11 without Embiid. The Mavs had a strong defense over the last 30 games and in the playoffs but Luka was the engine of that team and results do matter. Part of a peaks project is a bit of luck in terms of how rs+ps align but the problem with Embiid here is that in pretty much every rs he misses a ton of games and he has no great ps result. Which is why he hasn't gotten voted in yet.

[Top10alltime]

The 76ers was complete dog poop without him on the floor. He was injured and so was Danny Green. He played near his RS levels in 2024, as well, along with 2018. None of the blame should go on Embiid, he dragged a KG Timberwolves level squad to a game 7.

Luka had Kyrie, and a championship level defense, which is a squad that has a big chance of making the finals. Big difference.

In 2021 the Sixers were 10-11 without Embiid. The Mavs had a strong defense over the last 30 games and in the playoffs but Luka was the engine of that team and results do matter. Part of a peaks project is a bit of luck in terms of how rs+ps align but the problem with Embiid here is that in pretty much every rs he misses a ton of games and he has no great ps result. Which is why he hasn't gotten voted in yet.

On/off is a much better statistic than WOWY. Embiid has +15.3 on/off swing excluding garbage time (+13.4 with, -1.9 without). And he has a +8.3 WOWY swing (+8.0 with, -0.3 without)

And in the playoffs, all of them failed. Luka being the engine of that team is no excuse, when he had a clear-cut team that was far better than Embiid. Embiid should have been voted in at #7, but RealGM is being brutally dishonest with themselves, because they put Embiid outside the top 20.

Only Embiid gets this level of hate

[Cavsfansince84]

On/off is a much better statistic than WOWY. Embiid has +15.3 on/off swing excluding garbage time (+13.4 with, -1.9 without). And he has a +8.3 WOWY swing (+8.0 with, -0.3 without)

And in the playoffs, all of them failed. Luka being the engine of that team is no excuse, when he had a clear-cut team that was far better than Embiid. Embiid should have been voted in at #7, but RealGM is being brutally dishonest with themselves, because they put Embiid outside the top 20.

Only Embiid gets this level of hate

You are completely blind to Embiid's weaknesses. You then do things like compare his supporting casts to KG's weaker ones when they are .500 without him for extended stretches. Even 11-6 without him one year. He has one playoff in like 7 years where he actually played at his rs level. You have some crazy infatuation with Embiid and take it out on everyone who actually grades him fairly based on their own criteria.