Who do you think wins MVP this season? (2025-26 NBA MVP Discussion Thread)

[Bob8]

The arguments for SGA is that he's producing per minute better than everyone than Jokic. His argument is that he's a better player than everyone besides Jokic while being on a 1 loss team.

I have Jokic first because what he's doing is absolutely insane, but nobody else has even close to a reasonable argument over Shai. You have to ignore all efficiency and impact based metrics and thump naked assist/rebound numbers to put Luka over him. Over the first quarter(ish) of the season, this has only been a 2 man race and i dont see it changing.

Production per minute.
I guess Shai should sit entire second halfs and his production per minute will go even more up. OKC for sure can afford that.

Imagine if Luka would sit after the first half last night....It would been 32 points in 20 minutes!

Even better after q1, production would be 2 points per minute, with fantastic efficiency!

[mademan]

Less points, less assists, less points created, less rebounds, less steals, less fouls drawn...

Per minut. Luka plays 4 more minutes. Shai scores more, and less turnovers means while Luka creates more points, he also gives up more. He also defends worse, meaning he gives out more on that end too.

Saying Luka produces more is crazy. You have to ignore him playing more at worse effeciency, turning the ball over significantly more and defending worse. This is like when people used to get excited by "omg, Kobe 35ppg", when other guys were putting up much better efficiency/defensive numbers and playing better as a whole.

Look, I said Shai is more efficient and Luka more productive. Shai is not scoring more, he might score more if he played more, but in that case his efficiency might be worse. You can't take just one side of the equation. Funny how everyone is talking about those 2 TOVs more, which are product of Luka having the ball more in his hands foremost and having bigger usage, but on the other hand forgetting about rebounds and assists.

Btw. Luka's efficiency is pretty good considering his usage and production. And yes more minutes and bigger usage for sure has negative effect on efficiency.

I used to argue this against WB, but rebounding for a guard is irrelevant unless it helps the teams rebounding rate. Luka, over the years, while averaging 8/9/10 rebounds, has always had a negligible impact in rebounding rate for his team seen in the rates with him on or off the court or missing games altogether. Someone like Brook Lopez who used to average 6 rebounds a game in Milwaukee was a much better rebounder. And if youre not accounting for TO's with assists, you dont actually care about production, because this is negative production that takes away from it. 6.6 assists vs 1.8 TO's is much better than 9.2 assists vs 4.2 TO's.

I vehemently disagree that Luka is producing more. Yes, Luka's efficiency is actually really good, but Shai is playing at near peak Curry levels of efficiency.

[mademan]

The arguments for SGA is that he's producing per minute better than everyone than Jokic. His argument is that he's a better player than everyone besides Jokic while being on a 1 loss team.

I have Jokic first because what he's doing is absolutely insane, but nobody else has even close to a reasonable argument over Shai. You have to ignore all efficiency and impact based metrics and thump naked assist/rebound numbers to put Luka over him. Over the first quarter(ish) of the season, this has only been a 2 man race and i dont see it changing.

Production per minute.
I guess Shai should sit entire second halfs and his production per minute will go even more up. OKC for sure can afford that.

Imagine if Luka would sit after the first half last night....It would been 32 points in 20 minutes!

I mean per minute production not mattering at all is crazy. Its not like one of them plays 10 min and the other plays 40

[Bob8]

Per minut. Luka plays 4 more minutes. Shai scores more, and less turnovers means while Luka creates more points, he also gives up more. He also defends worse, meaning he gives out more on that end too.

Saying Luka produces more is crazy. You have to ignore him playing more at worse effeciency, turning the ball over significantly more and defending worse. This is like when people used to get excited by "omg, Kobe 35ppg", when other guys were putting up much better efficiency/defensive numbers and playing better as a whole.

Look, I said Shai is more efficient and Luka more productive. Shai is not scoring more, he might score more if he played more, but in that case his efficiency might be worse. You can't take just one side of the equation. Funny how everyone is talking about those 2 TOVs more, which are product of Luka having the ball more in his hands foremost and having bigger usage, but on the other hand forgetting about rebounds and assists.

Btw. Luka's efficiency is pretty good considering his usage and production. And yes more minutes and bigger usage for sure has negative effect on efficiency.

I used to argue this against WB, but rebounding for a guard is irrelevant unless it helps the teams rebounding rate. Luka, over the years, while averaging 8/9/10 rebounds, has always had a negligible impact in rebounding rate for his team seen in the rates with him on or off the court or missing games altogether. Someone like Brook Lopez who used to average 6 rebounds a game in Milwaukee was a much better rebounder. And if youre not accounting for TO's with assists, you dont actually care about production, because this is negative production that takes away from it. 6.6 assists vs 1.8 TO's is much better than 9.2 assists vs 4.2 TO's.

I vehemently disagree that Luka is producing more. Yes, Luka's efficiency is actually really good, but Shai is playing at near peak Curry levels of efficiency.

I would argue that having bigger body on Pg position for sure helps with rebounding and don't forget Pg rebounding means he can organise offense immediately, witch for sure can't hurt.

If you believe Luka scores more just because he plays more, then you should consider how much better efficiency Shai has because he doesn't play many Q4. I find extremely laughable using more minutes played against Luka's production, but act like playing less and shooting less doesn't help with Shai's efficiency.

[mademan]

Look, I said Shai is more efficient and Luka more productive. Shai is not scoring more, he might score more if he played more, but in that case his efficiency might be worse. You can't take just one side of the equation. Funny how everyone is talking about those 2 TOVs more, which are product of Luka having the ball more in his hands foremost and having bigger usage, but on the other hand forgetting about rebounds and assists.

Btw. Luka's efficiency is pretty good considering his usage and production. And yes more minutes and bigger usage for sure has negative effect on efficiency.

I used to argue this against WB, but rebounding for a guard is irrelevant unless it helps the teams rebounding rate. Luka, over the years, while averaging 8/9/10 rebounds, has always had a negligible impact in rebounding rate for his team seen in the rates with him on or off the court or missing games altogether. Someone like Brook Lopez who used to average 6 rebounds a game in Milwaukee was a much better rebounder. And if youre not accounting for TO's with assists, you dont actually care about production, because this is negative production that takes away from it. 6.6 assists vs 1.8 TO's is much better than 9.2 assists vs 4.2 TO's.

I vehemently disagree that Luka is producing more. Yes, Luka's efficiency is actually really good, but Shai is playing at near peak Curry levels of efficiency.

I would argue that having bigger body on Pg position for sure helps with rebounding and don't forget Pg rebounding means he can organise offense immediately, witch for sure can't hurt.

If you believe Luka scores more just because he plays more, then you should consider how much better efficiency Shai has because he doesn't play many Q4.

I dont think Luka scores more because he plays more, he scores more because he shoots more. Im not impressed that he takes 3.2 more shots to score 3 more points per game. Yes, the efficiency may come down if Shai attempted to get there, but the efficiency gap is far greater than the scoring gap

This is not negative against Luka. He's putting up a genuine Superstar HOF worthy season that would be in play for MVP in many years. This year just has Jokic in better than GOAT form and Shai currently playing in GOAT form. I dont expect either to continue, btw, but they deserve recognition for being currently game breaking in a way that Luka and Giannis are not.

[Bob8]

I used to argue this against WB, but rebounding for a guard is irrelevant unless it helps the teams rebounding rate. Luka, over the years, while averaging 8/9/10 rebounds, has always had a negligible impact in rebounding rate for his team seen in the rates with him on or off the court or missing games altogether. Someone like Brook Lopez who used to average 6 rebounds a game in Milwaukee was a much better rebounder. And if youre not accounting for TO's with assists, you dont actually care about production, because this is negative production that takes away from it. 6.6 assists vs 1.8 TO's is much better than 9.2 assists vs 4.2 TO's.

I vehemently disagree that Luka is producing more. Yes, Luka's efficiency is actually really good, but Shai is playing at near peak Curry levels of efficiency.

I would argue that having bigger body on Pg position for sure helps with rebounding and don't forget Pg rebounding means he can organise offense immediately, witch for sure can't hurt.

If you believe Luka scores more just because he plays more, then you should consider how much better efficiency Shai has because he doesn't play many Q4.

I dont think Luka scores more because he plays more, he scores more because he shoots more. Im not impressed that he takes 3.2 more shots to score 3 more points per game. Yes, the efficiency may come down if Shai attempted to get there, but the efficiency gap is far greater than the scoring gap

This is not negative against Luka. He's putting up a genuine Superstar HOF worthy season that would be in play for MVP in many years. This year just has Jokic in better than GOAT form and Shai currently playing in GOAT form. I dont expect either to continue, btw, but they deserve recognition for being currently game breaking in a way that Luka and Giannis are not.

Can we stop with this GOAT thing. He's nowhere near MJ's best years in offensive side and defensive side, no matter what advanced stats say. People should use eyes more, before making laughable statements. MJ was the best scorer of the league and the best defender of the league in the same season.

[mademan]

I would argue that having bigger body on Pg position for sure helps with rebounding and don't forget Pg rebounding means he can organise offense immediately, witch for sure can't hurt.

If you believe Luka scores more just because he plays more, then you should consider how much better efficiency Shai has because he doesn't play many Q4.

I dont think Luka scores more because he plays more, he scores more because he shoots more. Im not impressed that he takes 3.2 more shots to score 3 more points per game. Yes, the efficiency may come down if Shai attempted to get there, but the efficiency gap is far greater than the scoring gap

This is not negative against Luka. He's putting up a genuine Superstar HOF worthy season that would be in play for MVP in many years. This year just has Jokic in better than GOAT form and Shai currently playing in GOAT form. I dont expect either to continue, btw, but they deserve recognition for being currently game breaking in a way that Luka and Giannis are not.

Can we stop with this GOAT thing. He's nowhere near MJ's best years in offensive side and defensive side, no matter what advanced stats say. People should use eyes more, before making laughable statements. MJ was the best scorer of the league and the best defender of the league in the same season.

Ok. Disregarding MJ then, Shai is currently putting up the best guard season we've ever seen. Does it continue? Probably not. But it currently is that great

[Bob8]

I dont think Luka scores more because he plays more, he scores more because he shoots more. Im not impressed that he takes 3.2 more shots to score 3 more points per game. Yes, the efficiency may come down if Shai attempted to get there, but the efficiency gap is far greater than the scoring gap

This is not negative against Luka. He's putting up a genuine Superstar HOF worthy season that would be in play for MVP in many years. This year just has Jokic in better than GOAT form and Shai currently playing in GOAT form. I dont expect either to continue, btw, but they deserve recognition for being currently game breaking in a way that Luka and Giannis are not.

Can we stop with this GOAT thing. He's nowhere near MJ's best years in offensive side and defensive side, no matter what advanced stats say. People should use eyes more, before making laughable statements. MJ was the best scorer of the league and the best defender of the league in the same season.

Ok. Disregarding MJ then, Shai is currently putting up the best guard season we've ever seen. Does it continue? Probably not. But it currently is that great

He will continue play like this as long he doesn't even need to play Q4. And then we will see his regression in playoffs as every year. No more incredible +/-, on/off, no more GOAT TS%, I wonder why? But OKC is still far the best team, so it won't matter much.

[mademan]

Can we stop with this GOAT thing. He's nowhere near MJ's best years in offensive side and defensive side, no matter what advanced stats say. People should use eyes more, before making laughable statements. MJ was the best scorer of the league and the best defender of the league in the same season.

Ok. Disregarding MJ then, Shai is currently putting up the best guard season we've ever seen. Does it continue? Probably not. But it currently is that great

He will continue play like this as long he doesn't even need to play Q4. And then we will see his regression in playoffs as every year. No more incredible +/-, on/off, no more GOAT TS%, I wonder why? But OKC is still far the best team, so it won't matter much.

Didnt see his regression against Dallas the year the Mavs made the finals and he was the best player on the court. But yes, he hasnt been the same player in the playoffs as he has been in the RS. Neither was Curry, or even Luka, and ultimately, Shai's path to the top-15 GOAT area will be based on his ability to have some high level playoffs, but we're talking about RS awards here. Shai is putting up game breaking efficiency numbers currently that will likely correct themselves over the full season. If they dont, then it is a GOAT tier RS

[Bob8]

Ok. Disregarding MJ then, Shai is currently putting up the best guard season we've ever seen. Does it continue? Probably not. But it currently is that great

He will continue play like this as long he doesn't even need to play Q4. And then we will see his regression in playoffs as every year. No more incredible +/-, on/off, no more GOAT TS%, I wonder why? But OKC is still far the best team, so it won't matter much.

Didnt see his regression against Dallas the year the Mavs made the finals and he was the best player on the court. But yes, he hasnt been the same player in the playoffs as he has been in the RS. Neither was Curry, or even Luka, and ultimately, Shai's path to the top-15 GOAT area will be based on his ability to have some high level playoffs, but we're talking about RS awards here. Shai is putting up game breaking efficiency numbers currently that will likely correct themselves over the full season. If they dont, then it is a GOAT tier RS

The best player, while losing 2:4 with home court advantage? In that series OKC decided to throw everything on Luka and partially Kyrie, while leaving open corner 3s. While Mavs decided to guard Shai with single coverage and try to limit others. We know which plan worked better. Luka would have killed OKC, if he was guarded like Shai was. Wolves decided otherwise and were killed by Luka and Kyrie.

I'm sure teams can stop Shai with double teams and traps, problem is that his teammates are too good for that to work out.

[mademan]

He will continue play like this as long he doesn't even need to play Q4. And then we will see his regression in playoffs as every year. No more incredible +/-, on/off, no more GOAT TS%, I wonder why? But OKC is still far the best team, so it won't matter much.

Didnt see his regression against Dallas the year the Mavs made the finals and he was the best player on the court. But yes, he hasnt been the same player in the playoffs as he has been in the RS. Neither was Curry, or even Luka, and ultimately, Shai's path to the top-15 GOAT area will be based on his ability to have some high level playoffs, but we're talking about RS awards here. Shai is putting up game breaking efficiency numbers currently that will likely correct themselves over the full season. If they dont, then it is a GOAT tier RS

The best player, while losing 2:4 with home court advantage? In that series OKC decided to throw everything on Luka and partially Kyrie, while leaving open corner 3s. While Mavs decided to guard Shai with single coverage and try to limit others. We know which plan worked better. Luka would have killed OKC, if he was guarded like Shai was. Wolves decided otherwise and were killed by Luka and Kyrie.

I'm sure teams can stop Shai with double teams and traps, problem is that his teammates are too good for that to work out.

And Dallas did the same, wdym? They put a C on Giddey and left him wide open. I dont have time to pull it up, but i will later, but OKC generated nearly the same amount of open looks. Dallas's shaky shooter were hot that series while OKC's support was awful

Yes, Shai was easily the best player that series, and if Chet wasnt dominated by Dallas's bigs (regardless of the shooting), OKC wouldve won. Thats why they pursued IH that summer to complete their team

[Bob8]

Didnt see his regression against Dallas the year the Mavs made the finals and he was the best player on the court. But yes, he hasnt been the same player in the playoffs as he has been in the RS. Neither was Curry, or even Luka, and ultimately, Shai's path to the top-15 GOAT area will be based on his ability to have some high level playoffs, but we're talking about RS awards here. Shai is putting up game breaking efficiency numbers currently that will likely correct themselves over the full season. If they dont, then it is a GOAT tier RS

The best player, while losing 2:4 with home court advantage? In that series OKC decided to throw everything on Luka and partially Kyrie, while leaving open corner 3s. While Mavs decided to guard Shai with single coverage and try to limit others. We know which plan worked better. Luka would have killed OKC, if he was guarded like Shai was. Wolves decided otherwise and were killed by Luka and Kyrie.

I'm sure teams can stop Shai with double teams and traps, problem is that his teammates are too good for that to work out.

And Dallas did the same, wdym? They put a C on Giddey and left him wide open. I dont have time to pull it up, but i will later, but OKC generated nearly the same amount of open looks. Dallas's shaky shooter were hot that series while OKC's support was awful

Yes, Shai was easily the best player that series, and if Chet wasnt dominated by Dallas's bigs (regardless of the shooting), OKC wouldve won. Thats why they pursued IH that summer to complete their team

Honest question, do you believe D on Shai was similarly good as D on Luka? Mavs could have guarded him a lot better, but they rightly decided not to. Shai should have done a lot more considering coverage he had.

Do you know what is puzzling about saying loser was the best player? In playoffs only winning matters, I would imagine that the best player comes from winning team, while in RS winning matters a lot less, but somehow winning is considered extremely important to win MVP.

[hagredionis]

Ok. Disregarding MJ then, Shai is currently putting up the best guard season we've ever seen. Does it continue? Probably not. But it currently is that great

He will continue play like this as long he doesn't even need to play Q4. And then we will see his regression in playoffs as every year. No more incredible +/-, on/off, no more GOAT TS%, I wonder why? But OKC is still far the best team, so it won't matter much.

Didnt see his regression against Dallas the year the Mavs made the finals and he was the best player on the court. But yes, he hasnt been the same player in the playoffs as he has been in the RS. Neither was Curry, or even Luka, and ultimately, Shai's path to the top-15 GOAT area will be based on his ability to have some high level playoffs, but we're talking about RS awards here. Shai is putting up game breaking efficiency numbers currently that will likely correct themselves over the full season. If they dont, then it is a GOAT tier RS

Seems you didn't watch the series. First of all Luka was playing injured, secondly he was constantly doubled and tripled and the defenders were constantly fouling him even before he got the ball. In the end it didn't work because the other players got great looks thanks to Luka's assists and the Mavs won and the "best player on the court" lost.
Btw the MVP is not the "player with the most efficient numbers" award, that's why we have the voting.

[lethalizer]

Shai should have done a lot more considering coverage he had.

Do you know what is puzzling about saying loser was the best player? In playoffs only winning matters

To the first sentence, yes Shai should have done a lot more than 32.2 ppg on 50.7/55/83 shooting. (What the hell?)

To the second sentence, I don't agree with this line of thinking but if this is the angle you're going with, yeah Shai has won a championship and Luka doesn't, so yeah according to you, you already made your case against him. So good job, I guess?

[bbms]

Sure let's not talking about the 3 ppg more, about 4 rpg more and 2.5 apg and the steals. That's probably at least 15 point more generated. But sure let's talk about that one turnover because that's the real difference. lol.

I’m thinking more:

54 v 47 FG%
41 v 33 3P%
90 v 79 FT %
1.8 v 4.2 turnovers (sure, ‘one turnover).
33 vs 37mpg
Oh and 17 wins v 10 wins.

Comparing FG% between a player, who’s shooting 11 3s and a player who’s shooting 5 3s is a bit odd, don’t you think? Why don’t we rather use TS% for efficiency? It’s 61.6 vs. 67.1. Shai still better but data more realistic.

About Tov, Luka is a classic Pg, while Shai is nearer to Sg. Luka has a ball more in his hands. Even Magic was averaging around 4 turnovers. I hope you don’t imply Shai is a better Pg than Magic.

why is he shooting 11 threes?

i'll tell you, that's because he's in love with bad execution

[Bob8]

I’m thinking more:

54 v 47 FG%
41 v 33 3P%
90 v 79 FT %
1.8 v 4.2 turnovers (sure, ‘one turnover).
33 vs 37mpg
Oh and 17 wins v 10 wins.

Comparing FG% between a player, who’s shooting 11 3s and a player who’s shooting 5 3s is a bit odd, don’t you think? Why don’t we rather use TS% for efficiency? It’s 61.6 vs. 67.1. Shai still better but data more realistic.

About Tov, Luka is a classic Pg, while Shai is nearer to Sg. Luka has a ball more in his hands. Even Magic was averaging around 4 turnovers. I hope you don’t imply Shai is a better Pg than Magic.

why is he shooting 11 threes?

i'll tell you, that's because he's in love with bad execution

Bad execution means best scorer in the league with 61.6 TS% and his team being second in the West?

[Special_Puppy]

I’m thinking more:

54 v 47 FG%
41 v 33 3P%
90 v 79 FT %
1.8 v 4.2 turnovers (sure, ‘one turnover).
33 vs 37mpg
Oh and 17 wins v 10 wins.

Comparing FG% between a player, who’s shooting 11 3s and a player who’s shooting 5 3s is a bit odd, don’t you think? Why don’t we rather use TS% for efficiency? It’s 61.6 vs. 67.1. Shai still better but data more realistic.

About Tov, Luka is a classic Pg, while Shai is nearer to Sg. Luka has a ball more in his hands. Even Magic was averaging around 4 turnovers. I hope you don’t imply Shai is a better Pg than Magic.

why is he shooting 11 threes?

i'll tell you, that's because he's in love with bad execution

I mean if he's able to make ~38% of his 3s over the course of the season that's incredible offense, but also its really hard to get up to that target % given how tough the 3s he's taking are

[bbms]

Comparing FG% between a player, who’s shooting 11 3s and a player who’s shooting 5 3s is a bit odd, don’t you think? Why don’t we rather use TS% for efficiency? It’s 61.6 vs. 67.1. Shai still better but data more realistic.

About Tov, Luka is a classic Pg, while Shai is nearer to Sg. Luka has a ball more in his hands. Even Magic was averaging around 4 turnovers. I hope you don’t imply Shai is a better Pg than Magic.

why is he shooting 11 threes?

i'll tell you, that's because he's in love with bad execution

Bad execution means best scorer in the league with 61.6 TS% and his team being second in the West?

[bbms]

Comparing FG% between a player, who’s shooting 11 3s and a player who’s shooting 5 3s is a bit odd, don’t you think? Why don’t we rather use TS% for efficiency? It’s 61.6 vs. 67.1. Shai still better but data more realistic.

About Tov, Luka is a classic Pg, while Shai is nearer to Sg. Luka has a ball more in his hands. Even Magic was averaging around 4 turnovers. I hope you don’t imply Shai is a better Pg than Magic.

why is he shooting 11 threes?

i'll tell you, that's because he's in love with bad execution

I mean if he's able to make ~38% of his 3s over the course of the season that's incredible offense, but also its really hard to get up to that target % given how tough the 3s he's taking are

that's because he's a streaky shooter that tries bad shots a lot

[DrModesty]

Didnt see his regression against Dallas the year the Mavs made the finals and he was the best player on the court. But yes, he hasnt been the same player in the playoffs as he has been in the RS. Neither was Curry, or even Luka, and ultimately, Shai's path to the top-15 GOAT area will be based on his ability to have some high level playoffs, but we're talking about RS awards here. Shai is putting up game breaking efficiency numbers currently that will likely correct themselves over the full season. If they dont, then it is a GOAT tier RS

The best player, while losing 2:4 with home court advantage? In that series OKC decided to throw everything on Luka and partially Kyrie, while leaving open corner 3s. While Mavs decided to guard Shai with single coverage and try to limit others. We know which plan worked better. Luka would have killed OKC, if he was guarded like Shai was. Wolves decided otherwise and were killed by Luka and Kyrie.

I'm sure teams can stop Shai with double teams and traps, problem is that his teammates are too good for that to work out.

And Dallas did the same, wdym? They put a C on Giddey and left him wide open. I dont have time to pull it up, but i will later, but OKC generated nearly the same amount of open looks. Dallas's shaky shooter were hot that series while OKC's support was awful

Yes, Shai was easily the best player that series, and if Chet wasnt dominated by Dallas's bigs (regardless of the shooting), OKC wouldve won. Thats why they pursued IH that summer to complete their team

I distinctly remember Dallas choosing to make Chet prove he could hit 3's, and he wasn't hitting them. A whole heap of open threes hitting the front of the rim.