Who do you think wins MVP this season? (2025-26 NBA MVP Discussion Thread)

[Optms]

Bad nights impact wise for Doncic and Jokic, although the stats were there.

I don't remember many poster commenting on the bad night for SGA in his last game. The thing is that he has the luxury of being in a team where the strongest suit, and the what dictates their performance floor is their defense, and that alone is able to keep them in almost any game although their star is having a cold night.

And no, SGA is not a defensive anchor. He is probably the 5th or 6th best defender of that team. You could see how Blazers were attacking him relentlessly. He is above average, but not the factor that creates such a defensive juggernaut.

The other two don't have that luxury. Period.

We've also never seen Batman aka Shai Bruce Wayne become a defensive liability and brick shots to cost OKC the game in clutch time. As we did last night with the Joker.

Dillon Brooks just beat the juggernaut Lakers without his 2nd option Devin Booker. Real MVP's step up and don't run from the moment. Dillon doesn't run. He pokes bears and wins.

[lethalizer]

I'm curious what you would say the on-court differences between Kobe and Shai are that made Kobe super-popular and Shai not given that you seem to be rejecting perception of verticality as of particular significance, and while we all agree that Kobe's personality was a factor, it wouldn't have counted for much if he were helpless on the court.

There is this sentiment around Shai that he grifts a lot and that Kobe didn't and had to rely on skill.

Yup, and I think this perception might really be hurting Shai now and going forward.

But it's not like his foul grifting is an outlier for his time - the dude drives like a mad men and has never led the league in FTA prior to this year so far (which he leads because he's played more games than Luka).

I would say even the way Shai's name has been associated so hard (Doris Burke getting in on the action for god's sake) feels to me like something people embraced in part because they were seeking an explanation for why Shai was emerging as a superstar at a delay compared with other guys.

Luka and Giannis have played enough games to qualify for official leaderboards.

Luka is 1st in FTA/g, Giannis is 2nd with a very small edge over Shai for the third spot.

Using total stats I get when other players haven't played enough games to qualify in order to illustrate a point, but otherwise I rather go with averages.

Shai isn't leading the league when it comes to scoring, Luka is, but if we go by totals we'd have to say Shai is the leader.

[Doctor MJ]

There is much more to differ between Kobe and SGA that makes the footwork and modrange the only thing simillar to totally different players and personalities.

I'm curious what you would say the on-court differences between Kobe and Shai are that made Kobe super-popular and Shai not given that you seem to be rejecting perception of verticality as of particular significance, and while we all agree that Kobe's personality was a factor, it wouldn't have counted for much if he were helpless on the court.

I'm not rejecting the verticality, it's part of it, I'm rejecting the notion that the mid range and foot work are what made Kobe popular and SGA shoukd be popular because of the similarity.
Kobe took much much higher difficulty shots, and missed a lot of them, effeciency was never his aim, it was Kobe show, he's the man and the team swims or sinks with him, SGA is a calculated machine who perfected effecincy of his game, this is peak Steph effeciency but from the mid range, he rarely ever takes bad shots.
The reason Kobe was popular wasn't his game but his personality and what it resulted on and off the court.
Kobe shot mid range because it was the popular shot back then, and he used it, Kobe today would be much more Ant than he is SGA, and would be taking 3s primiraly, SGA OTOH is perfecting and shot that is being ditched in his time.
SGA isn't the only flopper and foul baiter in the league, all top players except Giannis do it, but 20 years ago, this behavior wasn't popular, and players who did it were mocked and condemned (Divac for example) and I doubt Kobe would have done it, and he was popular because he wouldn't have done it.
Tanking for assets is a popular technique with all teams to roster build, anyone who followed the league 20 years ago, Kobe forcing himself to LA and the post Shaq Kobe trade request knows, Kobe would never let his team sit on a mountain of picks, tons of cap space for 2 full years, before starting building around him.
SGA wouldn't have driven Shaq out of town.

Just totally different players to me that I wouldn't draw much parallels between them.

So I'll say up front that I appreciate your response and you're saying insightful stuff.

I will take issue with the idea that you can say the dominant way these guys actually shoot the ball is "the only thing similar" between two guys who are superstars because of their scoring.

But I absolutely agree with you that the fact that Kobe shot shots he shouldn't have was part of his legend. Analytically it was the wrong move, but because Kobe was on teams great enough to win 5 titles with him playing this way, it allowed him to cement a narrative-agreeing "you can't stop me" highlight reel on which he built the "mamba mentality" signature wherein that "unstoppability" got chalked up to his superior work ethic.

Of course the thing is, Kobe really thought what he was doing was generally good for his team. He wasn't avoiding taking more 3's because the 2's were harder, he was doing it because he honestly thought his way was the most effective approach. He continued to have a '90s mentality as the paradigm shifted in the '00s & '10s first and foremost out of stubbornness rather than a notion that '90s style chucking was the key to success and popularity.

Re: totally different players...wouldn't draw much parallels. I'll reiterate:

a) I'm specifically looking for people to point out what is not parallel like you did, but

b) if what we're talking about is people actually being aesthetically inclined based on specific basketball play-types, Kobe fans should specifically be drawn to Shai, and the fact they aren't tells us how little actual basketball play-type seems to matter when capturing the fan imagination.

And this is important when considering that people think that they are drawn in specifically by the aesthetics of Luka's game, but it seems like for mainstream popularity, the causality tends to go the other way. First a player draws buzz early in his career, then the fans come, and then the fans come to appreciate the style.

Not saying this is true of all Luka fans, or certainly not exclusively Luka fans, but I think Luka would be generally perceived far differently if he's been an afterthought in his first 4 NBA seasons like Shai was despite the fact that people would be able to identify and elaborate on his strengths largely the same way they do now.

And if Shai had gotten off to a quick start like Luka, I think the "real hooper" American basketball community would have embraced him far more than they have, and pointed to him specifically as they turned their nose up to "these fat Euros".

[Mavrelous]

And this is important when considering that people think that they are drawn in specifically by the aesthetics of Luka's game, but it seems like for mainstream popularity, the causality tends to go the other way. First a player draws buzz early in his career, then the fans come, and then the fans come to appreciate the style.

Not saying this is true of all Luka fans, or certainly not exclusively Luka fans, but I think Luka would be generally perceived far differently if he's been an afterthought in his first 4 NBA seasons like Shai was despite the fact that people would be able to identify and elaborate on his strengths largely the same way they do now.

And if Shai had gotten off to a quick start like Luka, I think the "real hooper" American basketball community would have embraced him far more than they have, and pointed to him specifically as they turned their nose up to "these fat Euros".

I think it's subjective, but I generally disagree with this sentiment, I don't think it had to do with the start.
Kobe fans, and I knew a lot of them, weren't drawn to the specifics of his shot diet, but more for the persona, the big shots (after 3-17 nights usually) and the jersey, in general, that represents most fans IMO.
With Luka, people are drawn to creativity, I'm not saying SGA creating the required space to hit a mid ranger or blow by the defender for a layup isn't creative, but collapsing the defense and then kicking out for a 3, or a thunderous lobs are just more aesthetic, and it's evident by the amount of highlights each player has in top 10 lists.
To me, SGA is much closer to Dirk Nowitzki and to lesser extent Tim Duncan offensively, highly effective players who get the job done and carry offenses with their ability to score at amazing efficiency, but were never block busters outside of their market, and Dirk was worshiped in Dallas, he just had little popularity outside, except among "real hoopers".

[CobraCommander]

https://www.espn.com/nba/story/_/id/47174335/luka-doncic-takes-blame-lakers-loss-suns-cites-9-turnovers

Even in defeat with a bad game Luka is making a good argument for MVP.

Hear me out:.. the mvp is as much a “who you like” contest as much as it is a “most valuable” contest.

Jokic is clearly the best player- sga wins the most - Giannis and Luka and Wemby and even other guys will have reasonable mvp level stats… so you gotta win the voters hearts and minds…

2 years ago, Luka was seen as a petulant self centered complainer that was out of shape and a defense optional ball hog, and voters responded to his reputation.

This year Luka is skinny, tries on defense and takes accountability for mistakes openly.

This is a good look for Luka. Sga and jokic and Giannis and wemby are considered “good guys” in part because they are humble and accountable as leaders in the press: Luka was getting techs for yelling at refs:..

Luka playing like he always does… now he is shape and accountable in the press:..

good job Luka:..

This is going to help with the voters

So even in defeat Luka making a good MVP case

[bonita_the_frog]

But its impossible for Luka to win MVP when his team is nowhere near SGA's team.
Lakers are level with Rockets, Nuggets, Spurs, literally ONE loss separates those 4 teams, so the Lakers are just as likely to finish 3rd, 4th or 5th.

Thunder are on target to win the #1 seed by a HUGE margin, currently 4 losses less than the Lakers.
We're only a quarter of the way through this season, so Thunder are on target to have 16 less losses than the Lakers.

[Doctor MJ]

But its impossible for Luka to win MVP when his team is nowhere near SGA's team.

One thing I'll say right now is that if Shai & the Thunder continue on their 78 win pace, I don't think anyone but Shai has a chance and I hope everyone can acknowledge that.

None of us expect them to keep this up though, and that's where the debate has a chance to get real.

[bonita_the_frog]

But its impossible for Luka to win MVP when his team is nowhere near SGA's team.

One thing I'll say right now is that if Shai & the Thunder continue on their 78 win pace, I don't think anyone but Shai has a chance and I hope everyone can acknowledge that.

None of us expect them to keep this up though, and that's where the debate has a chance to get real.

True, even though Thunder are on target to lose 16 less games than the Lakers, i'll bake into that cake a slump or injuries, so its probably going be about 12 games difference in the end.
And the Lakers seem to be very good at winning with different line-ups, so a possible scenario is the Lakers not having a slump, while the OKC may have a slump (with an injury maybe).

[slick_watts]

luka is obviously great but shai and jokic have been so much better this season unless you're just looking at raw points rebound and assists or something, which no one should be doing in the year of our lord 2025. it isn't even a conversation for me to include luka in this unless / until jokic and shai begin to fade.

[bbms]

But its impossible for Luka to win MVP when his team is nowhere near SGA's team.

One thing I'll say right now is that if Shai & the Thunder continue on their 78 win pace, I don't think anyone but Shai has a chance and I hope everyone can acknowledge that.

None of us expect them to keep this up though, and that's where the debate has a chance to get real.

happens is that, if the thunder's record isn't real and more in line with a 18-3 win team, lakers' record is also not real (they are a ~2 SRS team) and more in line with a 12-7 team.

i think all this stuff is way too early, but i find it entertaining that people still don't seem to recognize shai is a 1a/1b best player type in the league in his own right and his candidacy to mvp doesn't rely on team record alone - it didn't last season, it certainly not is in this season where his level is higher. they do think their guy's numbers are better than his.

luka just had a game with 9 tos and that's no big deal, turnovers are "peripheral" to this discussion. the world is PRAs.

[MMyhre]

Bad nights impact wise for Doncic and Jokic, although the stats were there.

I don't remember many poster commenting on the bad night for SGA in his last game. The thing is that he has the luxury of being in a team where the strongest suit, and the what dictates their performance floor is their defense, and that alone is able to keep them in almost any game although their star is having a cold night.

And no, SGA is not a defensive anchor. He is probably the 5th or 6th best defender of that team. You could see how Blazers were attacking him relentlessly. He is above average, but not the factor that creates such a defensive juggernaut.

The other two don't have that luxury. Period.

SGA still won the game in the clutch.

Clutch stats 25-26
1# SGA - 8.9 pts on 68.4 ts %. 9 games, 8-1 W/L, 5.6 min. +/- +6.3. 13 Fantasy Points.
16# Jokic - 3.6 pts on 56.3 ts %. 8 games, 2-6 win loss, 4.1 min. +/- -3.9. 6.1 Fantasy Points.
64# Luka - 2 pts on 63.6 ts %. 3 games, 3-0 W/L, 2.3 min. +/- +1.7. 3.8 Fantasy Points.

[Archx]

But its impossible for Luka to win MVP when his team is nowhere near SGA's team.

One thing I'll say right now is that if Shai & the Thunder continue on their 78 win pace, I don't think anyone but Shai has a chance and I hope everyone can acknowledge that.

This is pretty much it. People or specially voters love to bring up W/L and if OKC wins insane amount of games, Jokic and Luka could probably average 40pt triple double and it wouldn't be enough.

At this point i'm more surprised OKC lost that one game rather than having such insane W/L result after 21 games. And even ESPN journalists finally acknowledged that there is a lot more to the team than just SGA. They could legit be an all time best team. Their entire talent works so well together.

Giannis and Luka and Wemby and even other guys will have reasonable mvp level stats… so you gotta win the voters hearts and minds…

Are Giannis and Wemby even going to play enough games this season to qualify? That's a bit worrying at the moment, no?

[bonita_the_frog]

But its impossible for Luka to win MVP when his team is nowhere near SGA's team.

One thing I'll say right now is that if Shai & the Thunder continue on their 78 win pace, I don't think anyone but Shai has a chance and I hope everyone can acknowledge that.

This is pretty much it. People or specially voters love to bring up W/L and if OKC wins insane amount of games, Jokic and Luka could probably average 40pt triple double and it wouldn't be enough.

At this point i'm more surprised OKC lost that one game rather than having such insane W/L result after 21 games. And even ESPN journalists finally acknowledged that there is a lot more to the team than just SGA. They could legit be an all time best team. Their entire talent works so well together.

Giannis and Luka and Wemby and even other guys will have reasonable mvp level stats… so you gotta win the voters hearts and minds…

Are Giannis and Wemby even going to play enough games this season to qualify? That's a bit worrying at the moment, no?

No i don't think Wemby will play enough, and Giannis won't get enough wins with the Bucks.

OKC are the only team since 2010 Lakers to be pushed to 7 games in an NBA Finals, and it was against the 4th-seeded Pacers who could only get 7 minutes from Haliburton in Game 7.

So 2025 OKC are one of the least convincing champions in recent times, so their 68 win regular season was not an indication of their level.

That's why no matter how many games OKC win this season, there's a good chance they won't win the championship, because Denver are a bit deeper this year and Houston look A LOT better despite losing their starting Point Guard (but Fred might not start ever again, now that Reed and Amen dominate that position).

[jg77]

If OKC gets to 74 wins and SGA isn't unanimous then I think it's a black mark on the sport...cause what are we doing here?

[Mavrelous]

Luka is just not playing at the level of Jokic and SGA, his only argument is team record, and it doesn't work against SGA.
To his defense, he's playing close to his 23/24 level, when he had legit MVP argument, but SGA and Jokic just dialed it up to levels unseen before in terms of advanced stats, and SGA has near perfect record to top it off.

[mademan]

Gonna be difficult for anyone but Shai to win right now. I expect Shai to come back down to earth, but even down to earth slightly better than last year Shai is better than everyone not named Jokic, and Denver has a lot of problems right now.

[Cubbies2120]

and Denver has a lot of problems right now.

Their only problems are injuries at this time.

Blessing in disguise though, Payton Watson and Spencer Jones getting opportunities to play and put up some good numbers, too. Only helps the depth.

[-Luke-]

A quarter of the season is over. When do we usually restart the poll? I'd say two of the five top vote getters are pretty much out of the race.

[SA37]

If they qualify games-wise and their teams get ~55 wins, Jokic and SGA are in a 2-man race.

If the Lakers, Golden St or the Clippers get HCA, Luka, Steph, and Kawhi should get votes. I expect Houston and Cleveland to do well, but Sengun/Durant and Mobley/Mitchell probably cancel each other out.

I don't think San Antonio, Minnesota, Detroit, or Milwaukee will do well enough for their stars to get serious consideration for MVP.

1. Jokic
2. SGA
3. Luka
4. Mitchell
5. Sengun
6. Brunson
7. Giannis
8. Wemby
9. Cade

So just about every team has played 1/4 of the season, so here is my update:

1. Jokic - the most dominant season we've seen from an individual player since Wilt.
2. SGA - He has a better case this year than last. He's only played in like half the 4th quarters of games, no JWill, and he's still getting his numbers. Wild.
3. Cade - It's wild someone getting 28-9-6 on a 17-4 team isn't the runaway MVP.
4. Luka - A mini Joker, but even so I can't put him over Jokic, SGA, or Cade.
5. Brunson - He's been a monster for the Knicks.

No one else would likely get anything more than a symbolic vote, mostly from their own beat reporters.

[Primedeion]

I'm curious what you would say the on-court differences between Kobe and Shai are that made Kobe super-popular and Shai not given that you seem to be rejecting perception of verticality as of particular significance, and while we all agree that Kobe's personality was a factor, it wouldn't have counted for much if he were helpless on the court.

I'm not rejecting the verticality, it's part of it, I'm rejecting the notion that the mid range and foot work are what made Kobe popular and SGA shoukd be popular because of the similarity.
Kobe took much much higher difficulty shots, and missed a lot of them, effeciency was never his aim, it was Kobe show, he's the man and the team swims or sinks with him, SGA is a calculated machine who perfected effecincy of his game, this is peak Steph effeciency but from the mid range, he rarely ever takes bad shots.
The reason Kobe was popular wasn't his game but his personality and what it resulted on and off the court.
Kobe shot mid range because it was the popular shot back then, and he used it, Kobe today would be much more Ant than he is SGA, and would be taking 3s primiraly, SGA OTOH is perfecting and shot that is being ditched in his time.
SGA isn't the only flopper and foul baiter in the league, all top players except Giannis do it, but 20 years ago, this behavior wasn't popular, and players who did it were mocked and condemned (Divac for example) and I doubt Kobe would have done it, and he was popular because he wouldn't have done it.
Tanking for assets is a popular technique with all teams to roster build, anyone who followed the league 20 years ago, Kobe forcing himself to LA and the post Shaq Kobe trade request knows, Kobe would never let his team sit on a mountain of picks, tons of cap space for 2 full years, before starting building around him.
SGA wouldn't have driven Shaq out of town.

Just totally different players to me that I wouldn't draw much parallels between them.

So I'll say up front that I appreciate your response and you're saying insightful stuff.

I will take issue with the idea that you can say the dominant way these guys actually shoot the ball is "the only thing similar" between two guys who are superstars because of their scoring.

But I absolutely agree with you that the fact that Kobe shot shots he shouldn't have was part of his legend. Analytically it was the wrong move, but because Kobe was on teams great enough to win 5 titles with him playing this way, it allowed him to cement a narrative-agreeing "you can't stop me" highlight reel on which he built the "mamba mentality" signature wherein that "unstoppability" got chalked up to his superior work ethic.

Of course the thing is, Kobe really thought what he was doing was generally good for his team. He wasn't avoiding taking more 3's because the 2's were harder, he was doing it because he honestly thought his way was the most effective approach. He continued to have a '90s mentality as the paradigm shifted in the '00s & '10s first and foremost out of stubbornness rather than a notion that '90s style chucking was the key to success and popularity.

Re: totally different players...wouldn't draw much parallels. I'll reiterate:

a) I'm specifically looking for people to point out what is not parallel like you did, but

b) if what we're talking about is people actually being aesthetically inclined based on specific basketball play-types, Kobe fans should specifically be drawn to Shai, and the fact they aren't tells us how little actual basketball play-type seems to matter when capturing the fan imagination.

And this is important when considering that people think that they are drawn in specifically by the aesthetics of Luka's game, but it seems like for mainstream popularity, the causality tends to go the other way. First a player draws buzz early in his career, then the fans come, and then the fans come to appreciate the style.

Not saying this is true of all Luka fans, or certainly not exclusively Luka fans, but I think Luka would be generally perceived far differently if he's been an afterthought in his first 4 NBA seasons like Shai was despite the fact that people would be able to identify and elaborate on his strengths largely the same way they do now.

And if Shai had gotten off to a quick start like Luka, I think the "real hooper" American basketball community would have embraced him far more than they have, and pointed to him specifically as they turned their nose up to "these fat Euros".

Except prime Kobe had excellent scoring efficiency --106 TS+ from 01-09--- and was comfortably more efficient than Shai in the postseason. And lol @ acting like he was just along for the ride for those rings. You're hilarious.