The Nuggets miss Westbrook

[Edrees]

NO they miss Aaron Gordon and Christian Braun. nuggets are missing 2 starters. when you are down that much of course can finger point to missing more depth

I bet if you asked Jokic he'd say he misses Russ.

For personality/friendship reasons, not for basketball reasons. If you ask anyone who was teammates with Jared Dudley they'll tell you they miss him too.

[durden_tyler]

Problem with Russ was, he's good in 10 regular season games, maybe get you to wins, but will cost you that one crucial playoff loss. The story of his career and no contending team is taking that risk anymore (the Kings are safe, they are not sniffing even the play-in. LOL)

[Sharkboy242]

They would be better off with Westbrook than BB, there's no doubt. Westbrook just fills more holes than BB, particularly ball handling and POA defense.

This is all amplified by the fact they're missing two starters.

[HotRocks34]

Russ isn't coming back to the Nuggets. That ship has sailed.

Denver needs someone like Russ. They need a few things, but that's one of them. Someone good at pace, competitive and who will try on defense. Bruce Brown is doing ok but they could use another guard like that IMO.

I thought Russ lost his legs in the playoffs last year during the OKC series. I think he shot like 41% from three against the Clips.

But it wasn't his legs. It was his shooting hand.
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[ball_takes23]

Russ isn't coming back to the Nuggets. That ship has sailed.

Denver needs someone like Russ. They need a few things, but that's one of them. Someone good at pace, competitive and who will try on defense. Bruce Brown is doing ok but they could use another guard like that IMO.

I thought Russ lost his legs in the playoffs last year during the OKC series. I think he shot like 41% from three against the Clips.

But it wasn't his legs. It was his shooting hand.
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he shot his exact career TS% in last years playoffs. It wasnt his hand, thats just who he is.

[HotRocks34]

Russ isn't coming back to the Nuggets. That ship has sailed.

Denver needs someone like Russ. They need a few things, but that's one of them. Someone good at pace, competitive and who will try on defense. Bruce Brown is doing ok but they could use another guard like that IMO.

I thought Russ lost his legs in the playoffs last year during the OKC series. I think he shot like 41% from three against the Clips.

But it wasn't his legs. It was his shooting hand.
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he shot his exact career TS% in last years playoffs. It wasnt his hand, thats just who he is

Nope. It was the hand and I know he was on the injury report for at least one of the OKC games.

He totally lost his form in the OKC series, including on wide open looks. I attributed it to old legs but as soon as the surgery news came out it was clear that it had been the hand.

[HotRocks34]

[ball_takes23]

Russ isn't coming back to the Nuggets. That ship has sailed.

Denver needs someone like Russ. They need a few things, but that's one of them. Someone good at pace, competitive and who will try on defense. Bruce Brown is doing ok but they could use another guard like that IMO.

I thought Russ lost his legs in the playoffs last year during the OKC series. I think he shot like 41% from three against the Clips.

But it wasn't his legs. It was his shooting hand.
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he shot his exact career TS% in last years playoffs. It wasnt his hand, thats just who he is

Nope. It was the hand and I know he was on the injury report for at least one of the OKC games.

He totally lost his form in the OKC series, including on wide open looks. I attributed it to old legs but as soon as the surgery news came out it was clear that it had been the hand.

It was standard regression to the mean. Last years playoffs followed the rest of his career to a T. Hes always been capable of having a few hot games but then he inevitably has a string of terrible shooting games that bring his averages down below league average. You could look at his entire career and would have a very hard time finding many playoff runs where he had multiple hot shooting series in a row.

[HotRocks34]

This was Russ' hand like two months after the surgery. Still a mess.
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[HotRocks34]

he shot his exact career TS% in last years playoffs. It wasnt his hand, thats just who he is

Nope. It was the hand and I know he was on the injury report for at least one of the OKC games.

He totally lost his form in the OKC series, including on wide open looks. I attributed it to old legs but as soon as the surgery news came out it was clear that it had been the hand.

It was standard regression to the mean. Last years playoffs followed the rest of his career to a T. Hes always been capable of having a few hot games but then he inevitably has a string of terrible shooting games that bring his averages down below league average. You could look at his entire career and would have a very hard time finding many playoff runs where he had multiple hot shooting series in a row.

Ignored. You're out of here.

[ConSarnit]

Russ isn't coming back to the Nuggets. That ship has sailed.

Denver needs someone like Russ. They need a few things, but that's one of them. Someone good at pace, competitive and who will try on defense. Bruce Brown is doing ok but they could use another guard like that IMO.

I thought Russ lost his legs in the playoffs last year during the OKC series. I think he shot like 41% from three against the Clips.

But it wasn't his legs. It was his shooting hand.
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Who is this player though? Without Westbrook the Nuggets have the best half court offense in the league. So in order to make up for Westbrook’s theoretical absence (and not compromise their elite half court offense) they need a player who is:

-a good transition player
-a good half court player
-a good defender

That’s a $20m/yr player.

Or you bring in a Russ-like player and you hurt the half court offense more than you improve your transition offense (which, by the way, is largely suffering because Braun has missed half the season and he was a top 5, maybe even top 3 transition scorer last season).

[HotRocks34]

From a Nuggets site at the time.


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[HotRocks34]

Executing a successful fast break or good high-pace offense requires finishers (rim attackers like Braun and Gordon) and shooters/spacers (Hardaway, Johnson).

What Denver needs is a person to help Jokic and Murray, etc organize the break. Someone who can help Jokic and Murray play as finishers, not just creators. Russ was amazing at passing to Jokic and he could let Murray play off the ball as a SG.

Denver is missing a few good ingredients and this is one of them. A strong backup point guard who can play at pace, compete, defend and pass.

As ConSarnit said, it's not easy to find guys like that. So the Nuggets basically have a Westbrook-shaped hole, and it's hurting them. On both ends. Brown is solid but it's not the same thing, particularly this apparently diminished version of Brown.

On the other hand, I can understand why they let Russ go. I think there was some CP3-ish "it's my locker room" in Russ and that seemed to wear on guys, much as Malone seemed to wear on them.

The difference between OKC and just about every other squad is that OKC is a complete team. Denver is closer than most teams to that, but the gaps seem to be a bit larger than I thought that they were at the beginning of the year. They still have some work to do in terms of assembling personnel, not to mention figuring out coaching/lineups and just getting guys to consistently play harder.

[ConSarnit]

Executing a successful fast break or good high-pace offense requires finishers (rim attackers like Braun and Gordon) and shooters/spacers (Hardaway, Johnson).

What Denver needs is a person to help Jokic and Murray, etc organize the break. Someone who can help Jokic and Murray play as finishers, not just creators. Russ was amazing at passing to Jokic and he could let Murray play off the ball as a SG.

Denver is missing a few good ingredients and this is one of them. A strong backup point guard who can play at pace, compete, defend and pass.

As ConSarnit said, it's not easy to find guys like that. So the Nuggets basically have a Westbrook-shaped hole, and it's hurting them. On both ends. Brown is solid but it's not the same thing, particularly this apparently diminished version of Brown.

On the other hand, I can understand why they let Russ go. I think there was some CP3-ish "it's my locker room" in Russ and that seemed to wear on guys, much as Malone seemed to wear on them.

The difference between OKC and just about every other squad is that OKC is a complete team. Denver is closer than most teams to that, but the gaps seem to be a bit larger than I thought that they were at the beginning of the year. They still have some work to do in terms of assembling personnel, not to mention figuring out coaching/lineups and just getting guys to consistently play harder.

How is it hurting them? They have effectively the same defensive rating they had last year. Their offense has significantly improved and they have the #1 offense in the league. They are on pace for their best record during the Jokic era.

They are performing the same defensively with or without Russ. Their offense is much better. The one area where they are down from last year is in transition, which can probably be explained because 2 of their best transition players (Braun and Gordon) have missed half their games.

I don’t understand your premise at all. Is it just to prop up Russ? The Nuggets are a better team this year than last year. If they bring in a flawed Russ type player it’s going to hurt the areas they excel at. If they bring in a player capable of doing what Russ did (while also not harming their current strengths) then the comparison is not apt because that player is clearly in a tier well above what Russ brought last year.

Basically you’re saying they need a TJ McConnell type who can also shoot 3’s. That’s a $15-20m player. Of course any team would want that type of upgrade but it’s not realistic. Russ was making the min.

[Ssj16]

Same stuff, different game.

Denver has major issues and they're not all going to get fixed when Braun and Gordon return.

I'm not a big Malone fan but one thing was for sure with him and Russ -- they cared. And it didn't take them getting blown out for a quarter or half to wake up.

This team with Malone and Russ would have lost this same game last year. You can go back and look at the record of all the ridiculous games the Nuggets were losing last year.

I don't get this revisionist history.

[HotRocks34]

What happened in the first half of the Atlanta game was a disgrace for Denver. They just flat-out didn't care on defense and were moping around like someone stole their toys. It was embarrassing, and that kind of thing has happened several times already this season. I'm sure that they had some games like that last year, too, but I don't recall such a singular negative half like last night under normal circumstances (no back to back) and this kind of thing has taken place multiple times this year and it's only like 1/4 of the season so far.

As great as Denver is, they can be very lax and they don't always perform well at a higher pace. Westbrook was brought in to increase team competitiveness, energy and pace. And he did those things. What happened in the first half last night was a punk out, and Russ or first-stint Bruce Brown (not sure current Brown still has enough juice left) was great at pushing back in those instances and giving the team more fight. Yes, Denver beat Atlanta. But it was the third biggest comeback in team history and most nights that would be a loss. Jokic said that he played like a "sissy" in the first half.

I hate to say this but Denver's defense hasn't been the same since KCP left. He was great at navigating screens and nobody on the team now, including Braun, is as good at it. I think Braun is a better player than KCP but Denver has to fix that issue. Maybe Spencer Jones -- one of the only guys who showed some fight in the first half against Atlanta -- can help with the PNR defense.

Here are some stats for the "the pace and transition game will be great when Braun and Gordon return" crowd.

Denver pace and league rank

2024.........96.8 (27th of 30).......[no Russ]
2025.........99.8 (8th of 30).........[Russ]
2026.........99.0 (25th of 30).......[no Russ]

Gordon played 73 games in 2024 and Braun played 82. And the pace sucked. That's because AG/CB are not typically break initiators but break finishers. Russ is a break initiator. If you don't have someone who can lead the break, there is no break.


More pace data to help further the point. 2025 On/Off stats.

DEN overall.........100.7 pace (NBA.com)

Russ on...............103.3 pace
Russ off................99.9 pace

Braun on..............101.0 pace
Braun off.............103.7 pace

Gordon on............101.6 pace
Gordon off............101.1 pace


SAC 2026 stats

SAC overall...........102.0 pace
Russ on.................103.7 pace
Russ off................102.0 pace


Coming back to DEN 2025 data

DEN overall
........118.9 ORTG
........115.1 DRTG
............3.8 NRTG
........100.7 Pace

Main starters (JM/CB/MP/AG/NJ)
... ....125.0 ORTG
........114.4 DRTG
..........10.6 NRTG
........102.6 Pace

Russ replaces MP lineup (RW/JM/CB/AG/NJ)
........112.4 ORTG
..........94.4 DRTG
..........18.0 NRTG
........116.6 Pace

The 116.6 pace is the highest for any DEN 2025 lineup that played at least 15 minutes together.


DEN has intensity, pace and defense issues this year so far. Russ, or someone like him, could help with the first two items and he will usually at least try on defense. Unfortunately for DEN, the defense issues are pretty deep IMO although getting Braun and Gordon back should definitely help.

[ConSarnit]

What happened in the first half of the Atlanta game was a disgrace for Denver. They just flat-out didn't care on defense and were moping around like someone stole their toys. It was embarrassing, and that kind of thing has happened several times already this season. I'm sure that they had some games like that last year, too, but I don't recall such a singular negative half like last night under normal circumstances (no back to back) and this kind of thing has taken place multiple times this year and it's only like 1/4 of the season so far.

As great as Denver is, they can be very lax and they don't always perform well at a higher pace. Westbrook was brought in to increase team competitiveness, energy and pace. And he did those things. What happened in the first half last night was a punk out, and Russ or first-stint Bruce Brown (not sure current Brown still has enough juice left) was great at pushing back in those instances and giving the team more fight. Yes, Denver beat Atlanta. But it was the third biggest comeback in team history and most nights that would be a loss. Jokic said that he played like a "sissy" in the first half.

I hate to say this but Denver's defense hasn't been the same since KCP left. He was great at navigating screens and nobody on the team now, including Braun, is as good at it. I think Braun is a better player than KCP but Denver has to fix that issue. Maybe Spencer Jones -- one of the only guys who showed some fight in the first half against Atlanta -- can help with the PNR defense.

Here are some stats for the "the pace and transition game will be great when Braun and Gordon return" crowd.

Denver pace and league rank

2024.........96.8 (27th of 30).......[no Russ]
2025.........99.8 (8th of 30).........[Russ]
2026.........99.0 (25th of 30).......[no Russ]

Gordon played 73 games in 2024 and Braun played 82. And the pace sucked. That's because AG/CB are not typically break initiators but break finishers. Russ is a break initiator. If you don't have someone who can lead the break, there is no break.


More pace data to help further the point. 2025 On/Off stats.

DEN overall.........100.7 pace (NBA.com)

Russ on...............103.3 pace
Russ off................99.9 pace

Braun on..............101.0 pace
Braun off.............103.7 pace

Gordon on............101.6 pace
Gordon off............101.1 pace


SAC 2026 stats

SAC overall...........102.0 pace
Russ on.................103.7 pace
Russ off................102.0 pace


Coming back to DEN 2025 data

DEN overall
........118.9 ORTG
........115.1 DRTG
............3.8 NRTG
........100.7 Pace

Main starters (JM/CB/MP/AG/NJ)
... ....125.0 ORTG
........114.4 DRTG
..........10.6 NRTG
........102.6 Pace

Russ replaces MP lineup (RW/JM/CB/AG/NJ)
........112.4 ORTG
..........94.4 DRTG
..........18.0 NRTG
........116.6 Pace

The 116.6 pace is the highest for any DEN 2025 lineup that played at least 15 minutes together.


DEN has intensity, pace and defense issues this year so far. Russ, or someone like him, could help with the first two items and he will usually at least try on defense. Unfortunately for DEN, the defense issues are pretty deep IMO although getting Braun and Gordon back should definitely help.

DEN defense:

2024/25: 115.1

2025/26: 115.7

What a massive drop off! Such “deep” issues (while their 2 best defensive starters have missed half the season).

Who give a f*ck about pace? They have the #1 offensive rating and the best half court offense in LEAGUE HISTORY.

Come on man. Your argument is broken. But as always I expect you not to address any of this because it kills whatever point you’re trying to make.

Please explain why a team that currently has THE BEST OFFENSE IN NBA HISTORY should be concerned about pace?

[AleksandarN]

They would be better off with Westbrook than BB, there's no doubt. Westbrook just fills more holes than BB, particularly ball handling and POA defense.

This is all amplified by the fact they're missing two starters.

BB is more of versatile defender than Westbrook. Can guard 2 through 4 in some spots. Is a better shooter and cutter.

[Sharkboy242]

They would be better off with Westbrook than BB, there's no doubt. Westbrook just fills more holes than BB, particularly ball handling and POA defense.

This is all amplified by the fact they're missing two starters.

BB is more of versatile defender than Westbrook. Can guard 2 through 4 in some spots. Is a better shooter and cutter.

The nuggets need someone that can guard small and shifty guards. BB ain't suited for it.

Better shooter? At this point in their careers, IDK about that.