Warriors exploring S&T for Kuminga

[AirP.]

Monk is not in any package coming here yall stop.

I mean seriously? You want to get smaller? Delusional.

Personally, I'd like to see a scorer come off the bench when Curry is on the bench. Butler wants to run the offense and not having to score during the regular season since his offensive game is rough on his body. I'd also like to bring in some more size hence me wanting to add J.Issac (if he can finally stay healthy).

[tal57]

3 team trade so the money works.

GS sends Kuminga and Podz to Sacramento for Monk and K.Ellis (extend him instantly).
GS send Hield to Orlando for Issac (Issac is a health risk).

Sac wants out of Monk's contract; Orlando wants out of Issac's contract and could always use another bench 3pt shooter.

Starters - Curry, Ellis, Butler, Green, Post
Bench - Monk, Melton, Moody, Issac, Horford, GP2, Seth

It would be wild to see a defense lineup of Melton, Ellis, Buter, Issac and Green while also having Moody, GP2 or Horford as defensive options also.

Wouldn't mind seeing GS send TJD and possibly a 2nd to Sac for Precious once his eligible to be moved.

All for that. I would probably swap Ellis for Melton in the starting lineup. I am just basing it on the (grant it, very limited) time seeing Curry and Melton last year. Otherwise, not bad at all. The only concern is who is running the second unit. Pat Spenser? Same ongoing problem as last year and why they had taken the failed chance on Schroder.

[AirP.]

3 team trade so the money works.

GS sends Kuminga and Podz to Sacramento for Monk and K.Ellis (extend him instantly).
GS send Hield to Orlando for Issac (Issac is a health risk).

Sac wants out of Monk's contract; Orlando wants out of Issac's contract and could always use another bench 3pt shooter.

Starters - Curry, Ellis, Butler, Green, Post
Bench - Monk, Melton, Moody, Issac, Horford, GP2, Seth

It would be wild to see a defense lineup of Melton, Ellis, Buter, Issac and Green while also having Moody, GP2 or Horford as defensive options also.

Wouldn't mind seeing GS send TJD and possibly a 2nd to Sac for Precious once his eligible to be moved.

All for that. I would probably swap Ellis for Melton in the starting lineup. I am just basing it on the (grant it, very limited) time seeing Curry and Melton last year. Otherwise, not bad at all. The only concern is who is running the second unit. Pat Spenser? Same ongoing problem as last year and why they had taken the failed chance on Schroder.

For me... running the 2nd unit would be Monk and Melton.

I start K.Ellis because GS will extend him if they trade for him so he's here long term, Melton will opt out of his PO and GS probably won't be able to retain him since they won't have Bird rights. I really like Melton, but can he be retained after the season?

[BayAreaDub]

Monk is not in any package coming here yall stop.

I mean seriously? You want to get smaller? Delusional.

Personally, I'd like to see a scorer come off the bench when Curry is on the bench. Butler wants to run the offense and not having to score during the regular season since his offensive game is rough on his body. I'd also like to bring in some more size hence me wanting to add J.Issac (if he can finally stay healthy).

Lateral move at best. We already have scoring help that just arrived in Melton and Seth. Hoping Issac is healthy in 2025 is just wishful thinking.

[AirP.]

Monk is not in any package coming here yall stop.

I mean seriously? You want to get smaller? Delusional.

Personally, I'd like to see a scorer come off the bench when Curry is on the bench. Butler wants to run the offense and not having to score during the regular season since his offensive game is rough on his body. I'd also like to bring in some more size hence me wanting to add J.Issac (if he can finally stay healthy).

Lateral move at best. We already have scoring help that just arrived in Melton and Seth. Hoping Issac is healthy in 2025 is just wishful thinking.

No, I think it's a hell of a lot better than a lateral move, but I believe in Issac being healthy more than Hield being helpful on the court (especially with Melon and Seth being added to the roster), not to mention Issac would bring size when healthy which GS desperately needs. One way or another, Hield's contract needs to be turned into a rotational big.

[DonaldSanders]

Monk is not in any package coming here yall stop.

I mean seriously? You want to get smaller? Delusional.

The point isn't to get Monk, it's to get Keon Ellis without giving up any draft capital. You're giving up TJD and Kuminga who we won't get much if anything for, to get another salary filler guy and the real prize, Ellis. Keon is fine on size, he is a 6'4 guy who can handle POA defense and shoot 42% from 3. That's the exact kind of guy we need, we have a bunch of defenders who shoot like 35% from 3.

Monk might occasionally get some minutes but he's not why I am making that trade, Keon is.

[Onus]

Monk is not in any package coming here yall stop.

I mean seriously? You want to get smaller? Delusional.

The point isn't to get Monk, it's to get Keon Ellis without giving up any draft capital. You're giving up TJD and Kuminga who we won't get much if anything for, to get another salary filler guy and the real prize, Ellis. Keon is fine on size, he is a 6'4 guy who can handle POA defense and shoot 42% from 3. That's the exact kind of guy we need, we have a bunch of defenders who shoot like 35% from 3.

Monk might occasionally get some minutes but he's not why I am making that trade, Keon is.

Ellis does have some issues defensively. He gets eaten alive by players bigger than him which can be a lot of on ball players. Ellis is more like Melton insurance and not taxing Melton. The main get should be a larger wing like Washington or herb.

[xdrta+]

3 team trade so the money works.

GS sends Kuminga and Podz to Sacramento for Monk and K.Ellis (extend him instantly).

They can't extend Ellis for six months.

[AirP.]

3 team trade so the money works.

GS sends Kuminga and Podz to Sacramento for Monk and K.Ellis (extend him instantly).

They can't extend Ellis for six months.

They can negotiate a deal much like they did with Butler last season and just wait until Feb 9th to make it official. Sacramento opting in with the team option vs just letting Ellis become a RFA and then paying him was a bad move for Sacramento, that's talent they should have wanted to keep, not possibly lose.

Here's a webpage with Keon Ellis' situation.
https://www.si.com/nba/kings/onsi/sacramento-kings-news/keon-ellis-in-season-extension-outlook-historical-comparisons

[SacTown Kings]

If Monk isn't the catch, then swap him out for DDR. I view Monk as positive value and would not use him as just filler. Monk might not have much value on the market, but he has value to the Kings.

[xdrta+]

3 team trade so the money works.

GS sends Kuminga and Podz to Sacramento for Monk and K.Ellis (extend him instantly).

They can't extend Ellis for six months.

They can negotiate a deal much like they did with Butler last season and just wait until Feb 9th to make it official. Sacramento opting in with the team option vs just letting Ellis become a RFA and then paying him was a bad move for Sacramento, that's talent they should have wanted to keep, not possibly lose.

Here's a webpage with Keon Ellis' situation.
https://www.si.com/nba/kings/onsi/sacramento-kings-news/keon-ellis-in-season-extension-outlook-historical-comparisons

Ah, you're right, I forgot a team could extend him after a trade using the average NBA salary instead of his actual salary, within the limits of extend-and-trade restrictions. These would be an additional 3 years, starting at 120% of the average NBA salary, with 5% raises on the first year. This would be about 15M for Ellis for his first year. Not sure he'd go for that (which would be MLE money) as opposed to free agency, but maybe. A bigger problem might be getting him, since, according to Jake Fischer, "More than half the league has called on him."

[wco81]

Thing about trading for all these wing defenders everyone talks about -- Jones, Ellis -- is that they're not necessarily better.

Jones is bigger and has shot well from 3 point range but he's not shooting that well this year, 39/36.2 on 4.3 3PAs. Don't know why his overall shooting percentage is so low compared to career average of 47%. At his size, presumably he finishes well at the rim, maybe even a dunk target on alley oops.

Moody and Podz are both shooting better than Jones on more shot attempts but fewer minutes. Of course they're both much younger than Jones, who's 27. He may be better defender but is he mainly a catch and shoot player or can he attack closeouts and finish well at the rim with his size? He apparently isn't doing it this season.

Ellis for some reason is playing only 16 MPG this season after 24.4 MPG last season. His shooting is well off 41.1 versus 47.1 career average and 39.1 from 3, though it's down as are his attempts. Again another catch and shoot guy, doesn't rebound or get assists compared to Moody and Podz.

Maybe their advanced stats on defense are much superior? Otherwise they both play for teams which are not playing well this season and Ellis has had his minutes cut way back.

Sure trade away JK since he isn't producing to merit another year at his salary. But I'm not sure throwing in Moody or Podz would be smart..

Definitely, neither Jones nor Ellis seem to be worth FRPs unless you're talking like top 25 protected. Even then, I think I'd rather draft someone in the late first round, early second round versus paying either of these players 8-figure salaries.

[jg77]

Forget Monk...go get Trey Murphy.

[wco81]

Forget Monk...go get Trey Murphy.

Pelicans are losing to the Nets today by 16 points with about a minute left in the game.

Murphy has scored 23 points but he's -25.

Wouldn't mind his shooting but he doesn't seem to be much of a difference maker. Pelicans are having another rough season but to be -25 against the Nets?

Not worth multiple FRPs, probably not even worth one FRP unless it was like top 20 or 25 protected.

[Onus]

Forget Monk...go get Trey Murphy.

They want a bane like haul for murphy. Bane went for 4 1st. We're not getting murphy.

[Larry Ellison]

Kings blew out the Heat tonight and Spo went with his bench for the entire 4Q. Coach Christie kept his starters in until the end. LaVine and DeRozan played 39 minutes. It is hard to evaluate Monk and Ellis when they are not getting minutes.

[Onus]

Thing about trading for all these wing defenders everyone talks about -- Jones, Ellis -- is that they're not necessarily better.

Jones is bigger and has shot well from 3 point range but he's not shooting that well this year, 39/36.2 on 4.3 3PAs. Don't know why his overall shooting percentage is so low compared to career average of 47%. At his size, presumably he finishes well at the rim, maybe even a dunk target on alley oops.

Moody and Podz are both shooting better than Jones on more shot attempts but fewer minutes. Of course they're both much younger than Jones, who's 27. He may be better defender but is he mainly a catch and shoot player or can he attack closeouts and finish well at the rim with his size? He apparently isn't doing it this season.

Ellis for some reason is playing only 16 MPG this season after 24.4 MPG last season. His shooting is well off 41.1 versus 47.1 career average and 39.1 from 3, though it's down as are his attempts. Again another catch and shoot guy, doesn't rebound or get assists compared to Moody and Podz.

Maybe their advanced stats on defense are much superior? Otherwise they both play for teams which are not playing well this season and Ellis has had his minutes cut way back.

Sure trade away JK since he isn't producing to merit another year at his salary. But I'm not sure throwing in Moody or Podz would be smart..

Definitely, neither Jones nor Ellis seem to be worth FRPs unless you're talking like top 25 protected. Even then, I think I'd rather draft someone in the late first round, early second round versus paying either of these players 8-figure salaries.

Jones isn't really an offensive guy tbh. He's kind of like gp2 on offense. He can make decisions and dribble the ball and is pretty athletic. But he's not a knockdown shooter. His main selling point is that he's an all NBA level defender. Good on ball and off ball.

Ellis is a catch and shoot guy. I don't think he's a movement shooter. But he's a great on ball defender and an aware off ball defender.

Basically the 2 of them would be our attack defenders allowing us to pressure the ball the way okc does. They are both really smart defenders and we'd be really fast on defense. I do think we'd be able to be much closer to okc defensively with them.

[marthafokker]

Trey Murphy... the new Troy Murphy.... just with hype.

[DonaldSanders]

:roll: So predictable. Now JK taking strays for having a good plus minus . The guy played good defense, rebounded well, and only had one TO and 3 assists. The only thing he was guilty of was missing all but one of his shots. Can’t wait to see him in another uniform when he can relax and just be himself. People here have short memories.
Just for giggles, take a look at his stat logs from last year and the previous year before that. On the months where he has averaged more than 30 minutes a game, his stats are really good. He was also very good vs Minnesota in the playoffs last year. Can’t wait to see THAT player doing that again in another uniform.

Took your reply to the JK thread as I don't want to derail the game thread.

I liked JK before he started doing all that back to the basket ball stopping stuff, his first 3 seasons he averaged nearly 60% TS combined before he started doing a lot of iso-ball. Last season he was 53.5%TS, and he's back under 54 this season after tonight. He plays differently now, and it's less efficient.

Do you know why his 30+ minute games have gone well in the past? Because Steve played him more when he played better. Now, I do agree in the past there have been games where Steve didn't bring him back on a strong night, but he has also done JK's stats favors by sitting him when he's played poorly. I'm glad he is rebounding more, if he would just stop with the iso ball and let the game come to him it would really help his game out. There's a much better player in there somewhere!

He probably needs to go somewhere else and fail with his iso-ball before he can admit it to himself that it isn't something he is good at. If he focused on being an athletic rebounder/putback/cuts/fastbreak dunk + defense guy he would be a much more efficient player.

Edit: Just wanted to add that this is a general discussion, not about last night specifically.