Trading Redd Is Not The Way

[paulpressey25]

But I do think in retrospect (and yes I'm using 20-20 hindsight here) the Bucks should have at least pursued him harder and forced the Pistons to pay more to keep Billups than they wanted to.

Woo woo......you are coming around on that on....I like it....but alas it does no good for either of us since Herb blew his opportunity. We could have put out there a 5-year/$65-$75mm a year deal for Billups that would have blown Detroit's $45mm guaranteed money deal out of the water.

Best case we've got the #2 PG and leader in the league on our team....a defensive bulldog.......worst case Detroit is forced to let Amir Johnson or McDyess go because they've got serious cap problems now because they matched Chauncey....

[REDDzone]

I just don't understand the arguments that people use to say how important Redd is to this team by pointing to last night's loss.

Was Redd not in Denver? Did he not quit along with the rest of the team in Detroit? What is our record this year overall? If you want to make that claim, then couldn't you also make the claim that Mo is our MVP considering the fact that we had our worst loss of the season with him out?

Flawed logic in my opinion.

[Redbeardwirc0830]

I couldn't agree more with the original post. Redd has proven this year that he can step up his game and play a more all around game now. Redd Yi and Bogut have to be the three pieces we keep. the rest has got to go. I don't care if it is for talent, expiring contracts or draft picks but we need to make a final move before trying to settle.

[trwi7]

I couldn't agree more with the original post. Redd has proven this year that he can step up his game and play a more all around game now. Redd Yi and Bogut have to be the three pieces we keep.

Yet we're still losing.

[cam2win]

I couldn't agree more with the original post. Redd has proven this year that he can step up his game and play a more all around game now. Redd Yi and Bogut have to be the three pieces we keep. the rest has got to go. I don't care if it is for talent, expiring contracts or draft picks but we need to make a final move before trying to settle.

So your convinced Redd can learn to play with Bogut and Yi?

I sure haven't seen any signs they can work well together consistently.

[Redbeardwirc0830]

get them the right type of point guard and sf and I promise good things.

[cam2win]

get them the right type of point guard and sf and I promise good things.

So the right PG and SF will get Redd to not dominate the ball? How do we acquire these miracle players with Mo and a bunch of nothing, not to mention our salary cap mess? I don't see acquiring a top 5 PG as even close to a possiblity. A better SF will help but you won't get that anytime soon. I don't see how that makes Mike pass the ball more to the bigs either. You could say coaching..but we are on coach 3 with Mike as the star and well.....same ole.

[Nowak008]

I just don't understand the arguments that people use to say how important Redd is to this team by pointing to last night's loss.

Was Redd not in Denver? Did he not quit along with the rest of the team in Detroit? What is our record this year overall? If you want to make that claim, then couldn't you also make the claim that Mo is our MVP considering the fact that we had our worst loss of the season with him out?

Flawed logic in my opinion.

Hey you can't post things that make sense here. I'm reporting you.

[xTitan]

I keep going back to one fact that is undeniable...TJ Ford, Kukoc, Mags, and Steve Blake all left this team saying they were glad to go because this was an incredibly selfish team.......its pretty damn easy to figure out who they were talking about....not to mention some subtle hints that not everyone on this team is happy with how things are run.

[LISTEN2JAZZ]

Look it up.. there were plenty of posts that confirmed all this stuff.

What the F is your problem? You said that the insiders here can confirm your claims, but I named one (GAD) who said the exact opposite of your claim. If you cannot name someone who corroborates your claim, just admit that you don't know what you're talking about.

Either you have no idea who made such claims, or you're being a total jerk for replying "look it up" instead of posting the name of your source.

[smooth 'lil balla]

This is from a Celtics fan's point of view.

I think Yi, Bogut, and Redd are the guys you keep. Redd and Yi is a good shooting duo at 2 very different positions. It offers nice balance. Bogut is a good miscelaneous skilled center that can give you hustle... and a bit of offense and defense.

What you guys need is a power 3. A marion type to help rebound and defend the opposing team's scoring wing. that way redd's and yi's weaknesses dont get exploited.

Also, Mo Williams is not the answer at point. You need a winner, someone like an Andre Miller that really knows how to run a team.

You trade Mo Williams to Atlanta (who is a point gaurd away from being a really good team) for Josh CHildress (they've been tyring to move him, glut at the wing).....................And you trade Villanueva for Calderon (Toronto is thin up front, no pun intended).

Calderon (pass first PG with lots of toughness)
Redd (go to guy, deadly shooter)
Childress (hits the glass, good finisher, good defender, long and athletic)
Yi (second option... good shooter from inside the arc)
Bogut (the enforcer down low, rebounder, low post presence)


Its not flashy, ibut I think that team would play very well. Assume you're playing the Celtics... just as a benchmark. You'd have Calderon on Rondo, Redd on Ray, Childress defending Pierce, Yi challenging Garnett outside, and Bogut banging with Perk down low. Balance.

This is absolutely the best trade proposals i've seen to help this Bucks team. We would be a very good team with that squad. Calderon is a top notch PG, and he's proving it. I doubt toronto trades him however, with the uncertainty surrounding ford.

Great post.

[Simulack]

This is absolutely the best trade proposals i've seen to help this Bucks team. We would be a very good team with that squad. Calderon is a top notch PG, and he's proving it. I doubt toronto trades him however, with the uncertainty surrounding ford.

Great post.

Its great because its not constrained by reality. Calderon for CV?

Here's my trade proposal:

Dwight Howard for Bogut

There's an even better proposal to help this Bucks team.

[LISTEN2JAZZ]

Dwight Howard for Bogut.

That could be the missing piece that turns this franchise around. I would be willing to do this trade.

Great suggestion, and I agree, it's a lot better than the other suggestions people have made.

[Simulack]

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That could be the missing piece that turns this franchise around. I would be willing to do this trade.

Great suggestion, and I agree, it's a lot better than the other suggestions people have made.

It's just the beginning though. Then I'd turn around and move Simmons, Gadz and Bell for significantly more productive bench players.

[LISTEN2JAZZ]

On our end Bell is the worst shooter in the league, but luckily on the receiving end he is a gritty veteran defender who knocks down the open shot. We could probably squeeze some extra draft picks out of a deal like that.

[europa]

I just don't understand the arguments that people use to say how important Redd is to this team by pointing to last night's loss.

Was Redd not in Denver? Did he not quit along with the rest of the team in Detroit? What is our record this year overall? If you want to make that claim, then couldn't you also make the claim that Mo is our MVP considering the fact that we had our worst loss of the season with him out?

Flawed logic in my opinion.

It's no different than people talking about how the Bucks beat the Heat because Redd was on the bench in the fourth quarter. The bottom line is there was a lot of gloating by many of the people who don't like Redd after the Heat game and I wanted to have some fun by turning the tables after last night's game. Fair is fair.

Bottom line, though, is the Bucks are clearly a much worse team without Michael Redd. That was proven last season conclusively and certainly was the case last night.

[xTitan]

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It's no different than people talking about how the Bucks beat the Heat because Redd was on the bench in the fourth quarter. The bottom line is there was a lot of gloating by many of the people who don't like Redd after the Heat game and I wanted to have some fun by turning the tables after last night's game. Fair is fair.

Bottom line, though, is the Bucks are clearly a much worse team without Michael Redd. That was proven last season conclusively and certainly was the case last night.

My guess is in a game situation they would be tremendously worse without Williams and Bogut as well, since the Bucks have no quality back-ups there either. If you are looking long term you can't clearly say the Bucks are worse without Redd depending on who the Bucks were to receive to take his place.

[jligon]

Redd's gotta go. I've seen this time and time again with NBA teams.

"Why would we trade our best player? How would that make us better?"

I watched the Indiana Pacers for years trying to win a championship behind Reggie Miller. Every year they got close but were never good enough to win it all. They tried all kinds of different players around him and most of them did their jobs great. Dale Davis was a terror on the boards, not to mention Antonio Davis. Mark Jackson and other PGs did their job of distributing the ball. Rik Smits was serviceable in the pivot. Where could they improve?

I finally came to the realization that Reggie Miller, as great as he was and as much as he overachieved as an NBA player, just wasn't good enough to lead a team to an NBA championship. I italicize lead because obviously Reggie Miller is good enough be be a part of a championship team but he couldn't do it as a leader. And his competitiveness didn't allow him to let the other players contribute the way they needed to as a team. Now, late in his career he did relish the role of being more of a team player and, in my opinion, the Pacers were better because of it.

I view Redd the same way. I'd call him one of the worst very good players in the league. Thus, Milwaukee's saddled with him trying to lead the team and the lopsided win/loss column is the result. And I don't think he can change his game enough to suit this team and even if he does, can the Bucks afford to pay him that type of money to be just another cog in the machine?

As much as it might seem like a move in the wrong direction, I really think the Bucks need to move him and try to develop a better team concept of playing basketball. At least if they want to ever entertain thoughts of going deep into the post season.

[europa]

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My guess is in a game situation they would be tremendously worse without Williams and Bogut as well, since the Bucks have no quality back-ups there either. If you are looking long term you can't clearly say the Bucks are worse without Redd depending on who the Bucks were to receive to take his place.

No question but I do think there's a prevailing mindset among many in this forum that just removing Redd is going to improve this team. And as we've seen rather consistently without Redd the Bucks not only are a bad team, they are wretchedly bad. So now you have a lot of ground to make up with the new players you bring in for Redd just to become mediocre.

That's what I believe is being overlooked consistently in all of the Redd discussion.

[xTitan]

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No question but I do think there's a prevailing mindset among many in this forum that just removing Redd is going to improve this team. And as we've seen rather consistently without Redd the Bucks not only are a bad team, they are wretchedly bad. So now you have a lot of ground to make up with the new players you bring in for Redd just to become mediocre.

That's what I believe is being overlooked consistently in all of the Redd discussion.

My problem game in and game out the Bucks are consistently over matched athletically and often size wise at the 1,2, and 3 spots.....Washigton has big guards and an athletic 3 who did what ever they plaeased....this happens every night almost, so we have jump shooters who really have to give max effort to defend (which none do) to make up for there lack of athletic burst....no leadership, athleticism, heart....I waffle on Redd alot but I keep going back to what so many ex-players say about this being such a selfish team.