GM of the Year: Ainge or KP?

[Milkdud]

WHO CARES??

Like many of the NBA award it doesnt equate to who is the best GM (there are Waaaay to many factors in that question for a voter to really consider) but which GM team is doing the best that current year. DA has done a great remodel on a team that was pretty bad last year and now that his team is dominating the NBA he deserves his credit.

A year or more down the line if the blazers are where I think we all hope they will be then look for KP name for that award. But right now be happy for how we are currently playing.

Im dumbfounded that some of the posters.

[d-train]

I don't see how KP's job performance can be measured until 2010. Oden was an obvious draft pick and KP was hired right before the draft so that is not a big part of his resume at this point. However, if after several years KP is the GM of a successful team you can't hold it against him that he started out with Oden. The Zach trade is a current negative but you shouldn

[Yadadimean]

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If you're actually comparing the potential team affect of Oden to Al Jefferson, Ryan Gomes and Gerald Green (who were influential in Boston winning a whopping 24 games last year in a weak conference) then I suppose you're right. But he didn't trade an Oden. He traded a borderline all-star player who doesn't make his teammates better in Jefferson and two decent but hardly great prospects. They were no more part of the future solution in Boston than Eddy Curry is for the Knicks, no matter what the Celtics homers on RealGM thought.

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I know you were responding to someone else, but in my post, I included Oden because the pick that Boston traded to Minny in all likelihood is going to turn into Beasley or Rose who could potentially have a somewhat similar effect to Oden (though its sort of apples and oranges because Oden's a C)

[Yadadimean]

I'm with Mojo. I wouldn't have argued the point as much as he did, but it's Executive of the Year. This year! Not how the team will look 3 years from now. Boston is looking to win right now, not for the next 8-10 years. That's fine. Every team has their own way which makes the league fun. It would kind of suck if all teams went the young route for 4 or 5 years and every game was like watching a college game during that time. Just enjoy what the Blazers are doing. Sure, an award this year would be great for KP, but when he's having champagne poured over his yead in a couple of years, and every year after for the next 8 years, will he really remember that he didn't win the Exec of the Year award in 2007-08?

but "this year!" is the year that he ensured that Boston will be worse off than if he had never made the trades in years to come.

[MVP16]

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I know you were responding to someone else, but in my post, I included Oden because the pick that Boston traded to Minny in all likelihood is going to turn into Beasley or Rose who could potentially have a somewhat similar effect to Oden (though its sort of apples and oranges because Oden's a C)

No. The pick was so heavily protected that it could have ended up being a 2nd rounder. The Wolves first owe their first round pick to the Clippers -- and that pick is top 10 protected. When the Clippers get the pick, the Celtics have to wait a year because picks cannot be traded 2 years in a row. If Minnesota doesn't get a first round pick that's outside the top 10 by 2010, the pick would have become a 2nd rounder because or a rule that states that picks can't be traded 7 drafts into the future.

It's safe to say that the Wolves will pick outside the top 10 in 2008 and if it is indeed out of the top 10 in 2009 (I wouldn't bet on it) the earliest the Celtics could have gotten in would be in 2011...by the time Jefferson + their pick this year + other youngsters are entering their prime.

[mojomarc]

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but "this year!" is the year that he ensured that Boston will be worse off than if he had never made the trades in years to come.

I'd say "prove it," but it's obvious you can't any more than you can prove that KP's moves this year will actually result in a championship. That's why you can't say "this year he ensured Boston will suck down the road." It may never actually happen.

[Yadadimean]

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No. The pick was so heavily protected that it could have ended up being a 2nd rounder. The Wolves first owe their first round pick to the Clippers -- and that pick is top 10 protected. When the Clippers get the pick, the Celtics have to wait a year because picks cannot be traded 2 years in a row. If Minnesota doesn't get a first round pick that's outside the top 10 by 2010, the pick would have become a 2nd rounder because or a rule that states that picks can't be traded 7 drafts into the future.

It's safe to say that the Wolves will pick outside the top 10 in 2008 and if it is indeed out of the top 10 in 2009 (I wouldn't bet on it) the earliest the Celtics could have gotten in would be in 2011...by the time Jefferson + their pick this year + other youngsters are entering their prime.

The pick that is owed to the clips is top 10 protected. If Minny finishes worst in the league, the worst they can possibly do is 4th pick.

[Yadadimean]

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I'd say "prove it," but it's obvious you can't any more than you can prove that KP's moves this year will actually result in a championship. That's why you can't say "this year he ensured Boston will suck down the road." It may never actually happen.

you're kidding yourself if you think its not extremely likely that Boston will be garbage for a long time when their window closes.

[MVP16]

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The pick that is owed to the clips is top 10 protected. If Minny finishes worst in the league, the worst they can possibly do is 4th pick.

Yeah, and the Celtics wouldn't be able to get the pick until the Clippers get it. So if Minny finished in the top 10, they keep the pick and neither Clippers or Celtics get it. The same happens next year if Minnesota lands a pick in the top 10 and so on.

Perhaps this link clears it up a little better.

http://www.nba.com/celtics/stats/inside-the-numbers/numbers042006.html

* Aside from our own picks, the Celtics are likely entitled to receive a future first-round pick from the Minnesota Timberwolves. Due to a league rule prohibiting teams from ever placing themselves in a situation where two consecutive future first-round picks have been traded away, the Celtics cannot receive the first round pick the Timberwolves owe from the Ricky Davis/Wally Szczerbiak trade until two years after the Timberwolves send a pick to the Clippers (from the Sam Cassell/Marko Jaric trade). However, because the Clippers trade involved top 10 "protection," Minnesota only has to send the pick to the Clippers if the pick falls outside the top 10 picks in the draft. Therefore, in future years, Celtics fans should be rooting for Minnesota to win (when, of course, they're not playing against the Celtics) until the Timberwolves finish a season out of the bottom ten, and send their pick to the Clippers. Two years after this occurs, the Timberwolves will send their first-round pick to the Celtics, subject to some "protection" which decreases annually after the first year in which we could receive the pick.*

* The situation is further complicated by a league rule that prevents any deals being made involving drafts more than 7 drafts into the future; as a result the Celtics cannot receive Minnesota's pick after the 2012 draft, since the Ricky/Wally trade was made before the 2006 draft. Therefore, if the Timberwolves do not send a pick to the Clippers by the end of the 2010 draft, the Celtics will be unable to receive the Timberwolves' first-round pick in 2012, and will instead receive a second-round pick in 2012.

[mojomarc]

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you're kidding yourself if you think its not extremely likely that Boston will be garbage for a long time when their window closes.

Like I said--prove it. Once you can, then *maybe* you have an argument.

[Charcoal Filtered]

Want to point out why Boston had such a bad record last year in a weak East.

First, it was Ainge that gift wrapped Roy for us.

Second, that was the most blatant case of tanking I have ever seen.

Will have to see how the rest of the year plays out, but would be surprised if Boston can keep its current pace. The East is still pretty bad, but they have not played the top teams in the West or been hit with the injury bug.

Still think he will win the award if they win the East, but still think KP deserves mention. Would even say that Presti in Seattle should get mention. The record does not show it, but he did a wonderful job.

[Milkdud]

I dont think anyone here is saying KP doesnt deserve mention. But if you look objectively at the change that boston has made and the award winners in the past its gonna go to the top dog in the NBA. The blazers could have a great season and realisticly wont put of nearly the wins that the C's are gonna get. The award honestly is the GM that has gotten his team to be the best that season the which GM has gotten his team in place to be great for a long strech of time.

[mojomarc]

Will have to see how the rest of the year plays out, but would be surprised if Boston can keep its current pace. The East is still pretty bad, but they have not played the top teams in the West or been hit with the injury bug.

The second best team in the league this season IMO is not a Western team, but Detroit, and Boston went into Detroit and won tonight. The difference maker? A second round pick from this last draft in "Big Baby" Davis. Even his second rounders this year have been more impactful.

Yes, he was horrible prior to this year. But for Ainge, this year so far has been absolutely phenomenal.

[Charcoal Filtered]

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so far

We will see if it holds up. I would also not get too excited over a second round pick that has one good game, when it was the three superstars playing next to him that got the bulk of defensive attention.

I have never been a Flip Saunders fan and think Cleveland beating them last year was no fluke. IMO, San Antonio is still the best with Phoenix, Dallas, and Boston in a class just below. An injury to any of the threeparty puts Boston in a bad position, again IMO.

[Yadadimean]

i heard KP once humped a live lawnmower!!!!!!!!!drunk post #4

[d-train]

i heard KP once humped a live lawnmower!!!!!!!!!drunk post #4

Either you're drunk or you are Jason Quick.

[UGA Hayes]

I'm a Boston fan, but let me make some defense of Danny. Yes there was luck involved. It doesn't take a genius to trade whatever you have for KG. But I do think you have to give him and the Celtics organization (for giving him time and not firing him) for taking a pretty risky route one you guys should appreciate since your team was involved.

This isn't hindsight talking- after the roy trade our organization hyped up the ratliff contract more than telfair largely b/c it was going to be the only expiring during the last offeason. It ended up being a pretty big trump card in getting KG that other org couldn't offer ('cept you guys if you hadn't made the roy trade).

The other big move was a nonmove. Baron Davis, AI, and Carlos Boozer all became available to us (reportedly) and we (or perhaps they) didn't bite. You us and Chicago were the only teams left that hadn't cashed in our chips and we were the only ones with theo's contract. You guys got the number 1 pick, we got KG, and chicago seems to be in trouble. I think in light of all that you have to give Ainge a little more credit.

[UGotThrilled]

You have to give it to Ainge, because of what he did this year. A lot of KP's success (actually, virtually all of it) is coming from past decisions. Give KP exec of the decade, but Ainge gets exec of the year. True it was a gamble, but if the gamble failed he would have paid the price, no excuses. But the gamble succeeded, so he will (and should) reap the benefit, without any excuses or doubts. A lot of times, is what makes people great is their willingness to take a risk.

[Sinobas]

Danny Ainge.

[d-train]

Would KP be a better GM if he would have traded Greg Oden, Raef, and Miles for KG to get more wins this year? The Blazers could easily be sitting in the same position Boston is in. This team with KG would have been a strong title contender.

Yes. Of course, if it was possible to know that Oden was such a dud, we could have drafted KD and maybe had the good sense to keep ZBo.