Bucks-Bobcats Postgame Thread 1/6/2007

[Nowak008]

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I'm not sure Yi has superstar potential. I hope he does but I'm trying to temper my enthusiasm about him until he shows clear signs he can be an elite player. I haven't seen that yet.

I can buy that. You said the Bobcats have more upside then we do, and IMO Yi has more upside then anyone on that team.

[schwartz57]

sorry...another trade idea...

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Milwaukee Trade Breakdown
Change in Team Outlook: +0.8 ppg, +6.2 rpg, and -4.5 apg.
Incoming Players
Shelden Williams
6-9 PF from Duke
3.2 ppg, 3.3 rpg, 0.3 apg in 12.9 minutes
Lorenzen Wright
6-11 C from Memphis
1.3 ppg, 2.9 rpg, 0.3 apg in 11.0 minutes
Tyronn Lue
6-0 PG from Nebraska
6.8 ppg, 1.2 rpg, 1.8 apg in 18.4 minutes
Josh Childress
6-8 SG / SF from Stanford
12.1 ppg, 5.3 rpg, 1.1 apg in 30.4 minutes
Outgoing Players
Maurice Williams
6-1 PG from Alabama
16.1 ppg, 3.7 rpg, 7.0 apg in 36.8 minutes
Bobby Simmons
6-6 SF from DePaul
6.5 ppg, 2.8 rpg, 1.0 apg in 21.0 minutes


Doesnt look great for the rest of the year, but we get the oh so valued cap space at the end of the year, plus our (probably high) draft pick. We get some expirings and a young, strong PF to back up Yi. Atlanta gets the PG theyve needed. We'd probably trade CV once dez is healthy for more expirings/mid-late first?

Lue/Ivey-Sessions
Redd-Bell
Childress-mason
Yi-Williams
Bogut-Ruffin/Wright/vohskul

[Newz]

I don't think Yi has superstar potential...

I think he could be somewhat similar to Rasheed Wallace and how he plays. Great pick n' pop player with a nice fade away jumper as a post move... I think Yi could become a very good defender as well with some added strength/weight.

He could be an all-star level player.

[schweig]

Does Yi look more (a) messed up, (b) like Rob Schneider, or (c) like the RZA?

[Stopshere2]

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how could you possibly do that? people say that, but if you've watched 2 hours and 15 minutes of basketball, how do you not watch the last 10

Well, I had a decent excuse. I left when Charlotte called a time-out with 3:10 remaining and the Bucks down 7 as I had a funeral to attend.

I really thought the Bucks had no hope but would probably close the gap to 3 or 4. I was bloody amazed and impressed that they won. And even more amazed that the recently lamented Bogut had a major part in it.

Clearly, the playoffs are a certainty

[paul]

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Well, I had a decent excuse. I left when Charlotte called a time-out with 3:10 remaining and the Bucks down 7 as I had a funeral to attend.

I really thought the Bucks had no hope but would probably close the gap to 3 or 4. I was bloody amazed and impressed that they won. And even more amazed that the recently lamented Bogut had a major part in it.

Clearly, the playoffs are a certainty

Yep, that excuse works for me.

[vlietinho]

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. I left when Charlotte called a time-out with 3:10 remaining and the Bucks down 7 .

I fell asleep on the couch at that time, quite a surprise when I woke up

[Sigra]

I'd trade Redd for Steph Jackson tomorrow if I knew Jackson wouldn't get into trouble.....

Agreed

[Dags]

Take everything that LUKE23 said and it's pretty much my position on this game.

It was god to see the Bucks win, although it was closer than I would have liked. The keys to this game were:
1) Good games from Bell and Bogut
2) Good production from the bench
3) Playing against a Bucks-level team
4) Not getting in an early deficit. That's just been a killer lately, the team comes out flat, gets in a deficit and loses what little energy they had.

Anyway, good to see the Bucks get a win. Good to see so many players doing well. Now comes the hard bit - doing it again. And again. And again.

[jerrod]

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Well, I had a decent excuse. I left when Charlotte called a time-out with 3:10 remaining and the Bucks down 7 as I had a funeral to attend.

I really thought the Bucks had no hope but would probably close the gap to 3 or 4. I was bloody amazed and impressed that they won. And even more amazed that the recently lamented Bogut had a major part in it.

i guess that's a good reason

Does Yi look more (a) messed up, (b) like Rob Schneider, or (c) like the RZA?

i'm gonna go with B

[showtimesam]

I'm late to the game, but I agree totally with xtitan that Boguts stats and numbers are heavily influenced by the lack of smart players around him.

He's a confidence player and a guy that needs his teammates to keep giving him looks in the low post each night whether he makes his first couple of shots per night. Plus, since Bogut is one of the few unselfish guys on the team he'll set up his teammates for good looks. Which is another thing, on a smart team he'd occasionally get re-posted down low, but that doesn't happen here.


Now as for presseys stephen jackson for redd trade, I'd do that as well. Suddenly you can start mo/bell/jackson along with Yi and Bogut, and besides Mo you suddenly have a good defense, that can score with a more collective team approach that doesn't rely on one guy dominating the offense.

[BuckFan25226]

I'm late to the game, but I agree totally with xtitan that Boguts stats and numbers are heavily influenced by the lack of smart players around him.
.

Ya know, I'm sure you think he's teammates should score the ball for him as well?

[b]He's a confidence player and a guy that needs his teammates to keep giving him looks in the low post each night whether he makes his first couple of shots per night. .

Yes, that's why Bogut isn't a go to guy or a number one option yet. He needs to the ball in great position in the low block to be effective. His offensive game isn't good enough to be able to do it by himself. He's only effective when he can get the ball low(like many big men are). His high post face up game has much to be desired. He has no mid range game, no jump shot. He's a poor free throw shooter and he's easily rattled by good defenders, see Ben Wallace.

It's also a two way street, Bogut seems to disappear and not fight for position on nights, especially if he has a few misses early.

I've never seen a player so coddled and defended before. If he can put in games like last night in once every 3 or 4 games, then I'll start changing my tune.

[old skool]

It looks to me like several posters here confuse "making shots" with "team basketball".

In the win against the Bobcats, the Bucks scored unassisted baskets on 22 of 36 made field goals. That is the antithesis of team basketball.

oLd sKool

[old skool]

Bogut is developing nicely, but it is unfair to blame others for his lack of offense. He is brutal when it comes to establishing offensive position in the low post. Brutal. Against the Wiz Friday night, he repeatedly set up 15 feet from the basket in the general vicinity of the low post. From there, he was horrible - though he was able to repost for improved position a couple of times. Haywood was able to get the ball in a much better position, giving the Wizards a huge advantage inside. This has nothing to do with the performance of other players. If Bogut cannot get to the low post, no one on the Bucks can get him the ball there.

Bogut needs to improve his fundamentals.

oLd sKool

[BuckFan25226]

It looks to me like several posters here confuse "making shots" with "team basketball".

In the win against the Bobcats, the Bucks scored unassisted baskets on 22 of 36 made field goals. That is the antithesis of team basketball.

oLd sKool

Welll, the key point in that sentence was "the win against the BOBCATS"


I mean, this win had nothing to do with Redd being out. But the fact that Bell stepped up and did what Redd does every night. Also the fact that Bogut actually stepped up in Redd's absence for once. Not to mention Bobby finally played a solid game and he defended better then he has all year. We played well against a bad team without our best player and were for the most part lucky to win.

[showtimesam]

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Yes, that's why Bogut isn't a go to guy or a number one option yet. He needs to the ball in great position in the low block to be effective. His offensive game isn't good enough to be able to do it by himself. He's only effective when he can get the ball low(like many big men are). His high post face up game has much to be desired. He has no mid range game, no jump shot. He's a poor free throw shooter and he's easily rattled by good defenders, see Ben Wallace.

It's also a two way street, Bogut seems to disappear and not fight for position on nights, especially if he has a few misses early.

I've never seen a player so coddled and defended before. If he can put in games like last night in once every 3 or 4 games, then I'll start changing my tune.

The point is, its about DEVELOPING Bogut. Of course he has struggled many times, he's a very young player, but in order for the chance for him to develop into the type of player the bucks desperately need to get them to the next level, they are going to need to force feed him shots and help him develop confidence.

The bucks can either continue to lose games while redd jacks up 15 to 20 shots a night, or they can feed bogut downlow, work Yi into the offense as much as possible and see if those players can develop into consistent performers to get the bucks to the next level.

Bogut has shown he's a good all around player, and while his low post games leaves some to be desired, he needs his teammates to keep him involved in the offense and getting the ball in places to score so that eventually he can take his game to the next level.

You can probably count on one hand the number of times bogut was actually fed the ball in the fourth quarter when it counted. Well, last night was one of them and he did a damn good job in leading the bucks to victory.

[BuckFan25226]

Bogut is developing nicely, but it is unfair to blame others for his lack of offense. He is brutal when it comes to establishing offensive position in the low post. Brutal. Against the Wiz Friday night, he repeatedly set up 15 feet from the basket in the general vicinity of the low post. From there, he was horrible - though he was able to repost for improved position a couple of times. Haywood was able to get the ball in a much better position, giving the Wizards a huge advantage inside. This has nothing to do with the performance of other players. If Bogut cannot get to the low post, no one on the Bucks can get him the ball there.

Bogut needs to improve his fundamentals.

oLd sKool

Don't you realize that non of that is Bogut's fault though, it's his coaches, teammates, President Bush's, Herb Kohls etc.

[showtimesam]

Oh and I also agree with Europa that Redd needs to be our reggie miller and not our kobe bryant.

Sadly something is off, and either the coaches don't demand this from him, or Redd just can't be satisfied in that role.

He seems coachable, but his play often screams "I'm just as good as kobe!"

[BuckFan25226]

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The point is, its about DEVELOPING Bogut. Of course he has struggled many times, he's a very young player, but in order for the chance for him to develop into the type of player the bucks desperately need to get them to the next level, they are going to need to force feed him shots and help him develop confidence.

The bucks can either continue to lose games while redd jacks up 15 to 20 shots a night, or they can feed bogut downlow, work Yi into the offense as much as possible and see if those players can develop into consistent performers to get the bucks to the next level.

Bogut has shown he's a good all around player, and while his low post games leaves some to be desired, he needs his teammates to keep him involved in the offense and getting the ball in places to score so that eventually he can take his game to the next level.

You can probably count on one hand the number of times bogut was actually fed the ball in the fourth quarter when it counted. Well, last night was one of them and he did a damn good job in leading the bucks to victory.

God forbid you want one of the best scorers in the game to be shooting 15-20 times per game!

No no, I get it, Bogut's disappointments are not his fault, trust me, I get it.

[showtimesam]

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Don't you realize that non of that is Bogut's fault though, it's his coaches, teammates, President Bush's, Herb Kohls etc.

He's a young player...
Would you rather the bucks lose and not develop Bogut and Yi into players that can win in the future, or let redd and mo take jumpers and lose anyways while Bogut's offense doesn't get any better, and Yi remains a 5th or 6th option.