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CV for a Western Conference SF?

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Post#21 » by midranger » Tue Jan 8, 2008 3:12 pm

europa wrote:Villanueva for Wells would be a great trade for the Bucks but I don't think the Rockets would go for it. Wells would be a major upgrade at SF and is a better player than Villanueva without question in my opinion.


I want no part of Ron Artest.


Bonzi Wells? Are you serious? You'd be behind that, but not Artest?

Ultimate contract year player. After his last contract was inked, he showed up what? 25 pounds overweight? The Rockets were unable to play him, he was so fat and out of shape. Now, with 1/3 of the season gone, he actually starts trying again, knowing full well that he needs a new contract. He'll certainly be gunning for a deal if he is traded. No thanks on Wells for me.
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Post#22 » by EastSideBucksFan » Tue Jan 8, 2008 3:15 pm

midranger wrote:-= original quote snipped =-



Bonzi Wells? Are you serious? You'd be behind that, but not Artest?

Ultimate contract year player. After his last contract was inked, he showed up what? 25 pounds overweight? The Rockets were unable to play him, he was so fat and out of shape. Now, with 1/3 of the season gone, he actually starts trying again, knowing full well that he needs a new contract. He'll certainly be gunning for a deal if he is traded. No thanks on Wells for me.



Villanueva for Bonzi Wells is a horrible, horrible deal.
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Post#23 » by midranger » Tue Jan 8, 2008 3:16 pm

Chapter29 wrote:Charlie V can average 15 points no problem as long as you put him on the court. The issue is can you hide his defensive liabilities enough to warrant 30 plus mpg.


Honestly, I think CV could be an 18-20 ppg scorer if given that role. His midrange game is very good, and he has a nice touch around the rim. He can even step out and shoot the 3 if he needs to (does it FAR to often here, partly by design IMO). However, the second part of your statement is likewise true. CV is a flat out bad defender, which you'd need to hide if you wanted his offense.
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Post#24 » by paul » Tue Jan 8, 2008 3:17 pm

Chapter29 wrote:Charlie V can average 15 points no problem as long as you put him on the court. The issue is can you hide his defensive liabilities enough to warrant 30 plus mpg.


This highlights the reason CV has struggled to fit here this season imo. We have too many poor individual defenders, LK had oviously decided to give mo and redd big minutes and they've both played very poor D at times, mo moreso, so i think LK doesn't feel like he can have 3 poor defenders in the game for long stretches and has therefore sat CV. CV is the second best individual offensive talent behind redd on this team imo, and is a much greater offensive threat than yi, save for yi's long rang J. However LK obviously feels Yi is a better defender and perhaps works better defensively with Bogut.
For mine whilst Yi is a slightly better defender i wouldn't be comparing him with rodman in man defense just yet, and i do feel he gets lost on rotations a fair bit. That block on Oak the other night was sweet, but doesn't make him camby either.
All this adds up to me wanting CV to start and get slightly more minutes than Yi at this point in Yi's development, but i'm fighting a losing battle there.
I said in another thread i also wouldn't trade CV at the moment as i feel like his game is coming back and his value will only continue to increase either to us or as trade bait, but if pressed as to who i'd want for him in a trade I'd say Battier, although we'd struggle to get him. Battier brings a lot of what we desperately need - hustle, solid D, rebounding, leadership, and more hustle.
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Post#25 » by europa » Tue Jan 8, 2008 3:40 pm

midranger wrote:-= original quote snipped =-



Bonzi Wells? Are you serious? You'd be behind that, but not Artest?.


Ron Artest is insane.

And I'm not using hyperbole. The guy is flipping nuts.

This isn't a question of talent. This is all about the fact that Ron Artest is, in my opinion, a disturbed individual and I think the last thing this team needs is to add him to an already highly suspect mix.
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Post#26 » by europa » Tue Jan 8, 2008 3:41 pm

EastSideBucksFan wrote:-= original quote snipped =-




Villanueva for Bonzi Wells is a horrible, horrible deal.


You must not have seen Wells play this season. He's having a fine season and is a much better producer on the court than Villanueva. I'd be surprised if the Rockets wanted any part of a Villanueva for Wells deal due to the downgrade they'd suffer.
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Post#27 » by midranger » Tue Jan 8, 2008 3:45 pm

Wells decided to show up for the Rockets 20 games into the second year of a two year deal. He's a turd.
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Post#28 » by europa » Tue Jan 8, 2008 3:47 pm

midranger wrote:Wells decided to show up for the Rockets 20 games into the second year of a two year deal. He's a turd.


Which still makes him a big upgrade over Villanueva.
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Post#29 » by midranger » Tue Jan 8, 2008 3:49 pm

Which makes it likely that we give him a 4 year 24 million dollar deal, after which, he immediately retires so he can focus on his eating career.

Also, how are the Rockets?
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Post#30 » by europa » Tue Jan 8, 2008 3:56 pm

They look like World Champs compared to the Bucks.

Well has had a pretty productive career. At times, he's been a serious impact player on good teams (like the Kings two seasons ago when he played great in the playoffs). He flamed out last season because he hated Van Gundy. With Van Gundy gone, his game has returned. He'd be a gigantic upgrade at SF for the Bucks. He' a better player than Villanueva and I don't think he'll command a big deal in free agency should the Bucks decide they want to re-sign him.

But all this is likely meaningless given how I don't think the Rockets would want to make a Wells for Villanueva trade given the downgrade they'd receive.
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Post#31 » by Simulack » Tue Jan 8, 2008 3:57 pm

I doubt we could get him but since I brought it up a month or so ago and just saw Ruzious suggest it on the trade board: CV for Al Thornton.

Thornton isn't a starter on the Clipz but he could be here. He'd be a nice player to have because he's older/more experienced than most rookies at 24 but young enough where he fits in well with our future guys like Bogut and Yi.

IMO CV is being underrated here by some. He's 23 and still the same player many thought highly of in Toronto in terms of his weaknesses and his strengths.

Most feel like he hasn't played well so far this year but his averages are now nearing 10/5 in just 20 minutes. Give him a consistent 30 a night and he's a lock to put up 15 points with 7 or 8 boards a night.
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Post#32 » by EastSideBucksFan » Tue Jan 8, 2008 3:59 pm

europa wrote:-= original quote snipped =-



Which still makes him a big upgrade over Villanueva.



Villa is a young turd with plenty of potential


Wells is an old and busted turd with a bad attitude.

If JVG can't reel him in LK would have no chance
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Post#33 » by europa » Tue Jan 8, 2008 4:01 pm

I never bought into all this vast potential Villanueva supposedly has. All I'm hoping for at this point is there's one GM out there as delusional as Harris was. Just one. If there's more than one, that'd be great. But hopefully there's one GM out there willing to take this guy off the Bucks' hands.
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Post#34 » by Buck You » Tue Jan 8, 2008 4:13 pm

europa wrote:They look like World Champs compared to the Bucks.

Well has had a pretty productive career. At times, he's been a serious impact player on good teams (like the Kings two seasons ago when he played great in the playoffs). He flamed out last season because he hated Van Gundy. With Van Gundy gone, his game has returned. He'd be a gigantic upgrade at SF for the Bucks. He' a better player than Villanueva and I don't think he'll command a big deal in free agency should the Bucks decide they want to re-sign him.

But all this is likely meaningless given how I don't think the Rockets would want to make a Wells for Villanueva trade given the downgrade they'd receive.


The reason his game is back is because he's up for a new big deal in the off season. The coach has something to do with it also but money motivates him.
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Post#35 » by europa » Tue Jan 8, 2008 4:14 pm

ReddBogutCharlieV wrote:-= original quote snipped =-



The reason his game is back is because he's up for a new big deal in the off season. The coach has something to do with it also but money motivates him.


Certainly possible but it's not like he's only played well in contract years. He's had a number of solid seasons in the league. He's a good player. Not perfect and he does have some issues. But I think he's a better player than Villanueva and obviously would be a major upgrade at SF for the Bucks.
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Post#36 » by Buck You » Tue Jan 8, 2008 4:16 pm

europa wrote:-= original quote snipped =-



Certainly possible but it's not like he's only played well in contract years. He's had a number of solid seasons in the league. He's a good player. Not perfect and he does have some issues. But I think he's a better player than Villanueva and obviously would be a major upgrade at SF for the Bucks.


It's not hard to be better than Villy right now. But I'd rather explore other options then go after Bonzi Wells.
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Post#37 » by Simulack » Tue Jan 8, 2008 4:16 pm

Only on the Bucks board is one 23 year old player averaging 10.7/6.3 in 28 minutes a game a future superstar to some while another 23 year old player averaging 9.5/4.6 in 20 minutes is garbage we'd be lucky to be able to get rid off to others. :P
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Post#38 » by xTitan » Tue Jan 8, 2008 4:38 pm

I heard Woelfel's comments on the radio and he did say CV's stock was going up, as he is starting to show some signs he has waken from a long sleep, however it was never said that he was going to be traded for 3. Woelfel did overtly suggest CV was the guy on the blocks, not sure who else would have real value off there bench, but he did not specifically say for a 3, he said a starting caliber player. I can't see the Bucks moving CV for only a 3, that would leave you with three SF's and zero back-ups at the 4. This will probably have to be a multiple player deal or multiple team deal.
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Post#39 » by Chapter29 » Tue Jan 8, 2008 5:27 pm

Unless Simmons is moved, I cannot really fathom that we would go after a 3.

Far too much money tied up and no backup PF? Not likely.
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Post#40 » by GrandAdmiralDan » Tue Jan 8, 2008 5:28 pm

xTitan wrote:I heard Woelfel's comments on the radio and he did say CV's stock was going up, as he is starting to show some signs he has waken from a long sleep, however it was never said that he was going to be traded for 3. Woelfel did overtly suggest CV was the guy on the blocks, not sure who else would have real value off there bench, but he did not specifically say for a 3, he said a starting caliber player. I can't see the Bucks moving CV for only a 3, that would leave you with three SF's and zero back-ups at the 4. This will probably have to be a multiple player deal or multiple team deal.


I'm not necessarily endorsing any of the following (nor am I saying any of it is necessarily a bad idea), but I am told the Bucks thinking is as follows:

What would happen if CV is traded for a "starting caliber" SF is that guy would become our starting SF, Yi's minutes at PF would go up, and then the backup situations would be a mix and match situation with Bell and Simmons being the guys to get the bulk of the minutes necessary to cover the gaps at SF and PF, adding Desmond to that equation as well when he gets back from injury.

Bell would be used at PG and SG, and would in effect provide us with SF minutes if necessary by playing SG while Redd slides up to SF. Simmons could provide backup minutes at SF and backup minutes at PF, but if he isn't playing well he can replaced on the small side with more minutes for Bell and/or Ivey and on the big side with more minutes for Voskuhl and/or Ruffin. There is also a concern that we need to start watching Mo's minutes so we don't overburden him with too many minutes and wear him down so much he ends up with some of the nagging injuries that have plagued him in the past.

Voskuhl or Ruffin would be used at backup center depending on the particular matchup at the time and Gadzuric will just rack up more DNP-CDs except in rare situations of foul trouble or injuries.
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