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Rebuild the Bulls all over again, the 2010/11 plan

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Post#61 » by Magilla_Gorilla » Mon Jan 7, 2008 6:03 pm

OldSchoolNoBull wrote:-= original quote snipped =-



Just a thought, Doug - didn't LA's 'Shaq' plan involve Jerry West breaking league rules? Specifically the one that says no team can talk to any player on a different team about an FA contract while that player is still under contract with his team? I'm pretty sure West was talking to O'Neal for most of the 95-96 season(Shaq's last in Orlando) trying to lure him to LA, and that that kind of thing, at least then(maybe still), was against the rules.

I'm just saying, if that's true, than a big part of 'consciously making sure their stars align' could have involved illegitimate means.


I'd have to agree - weren't the rumors that West had already obtained an agreement from Shaq before he started dumping salary?
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Post#62 » by theagent » Mon Jan 7, 2008 6:42 pm

how is it a rebuilding plan when most of you guys are creating plans that don't involve getting a high pick(or 2) this year????
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Post#63 » by dougthonus » Mon Jan 7, 2008 6:44 pm

Why argue semantics?

If you'd prefer the term reloading plan, retooling plan, or the pray for LeBron plan I'm up for that.
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Post#64 » by dougthonus » Mon Jan 7, 2008 6:45 pm


I'd have to agree - weren't the rumors that West had already obtained an agreement from Shaq before he started dumping salary?


I don't recall that, but it's certainly possible. I wasn't super big into following the NBA overall at the time.
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Post#65 » by coldfish » Mon Jan 7, 2008 6:45 pm

theagent wrote:how is it a rebuilding plan when most of you guys are creating plans that don't involve getting a high pick(or 2) this year????


Tried that, didn't work. I think the goal is to follow the Boston route. The draft lottery route only works if you can get an all time great player and there doesn't look to be any in the draft this year.

Unless of course, your goal isn't to win a title.
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Post#66 » by Cliff Levingston » Mon Jan 7, 2008 6:46 pm

coldfish wrote:Unless of course, your goal isn't to win a title.

:sigh:
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Post#67 » by coldfish » Mon Jan 7, 2008 8:24 pm

Cliff Levingston wrote:-= original quote snipped =-


:sigh:


Oh, come on. Let me have my fun.
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Post#68 » by Shill » Wed Jan 9, 2008 6:23 am

I think this thread should be tacked.

I'll reiterate my "Get LeBron in 2010" plan.


Trade Hinrich and Nocioni for a guard whose contract expires in 2009 or 2010.

Extend Deng and Gordon (minimum salary allowable under CBA for the 2010 season).

Extend Tyrus Thomas.

Re-sign Aaron Gray.

Let Thabo become a RFA. By then we should know what we have with him.


By the summer of 2010, our salary structure would look like:

Noah - $3 mill
Thomas - $8 mill
Deng - $8.5 mill
Gordon - $8.5 mill
Thabo - $4 mill
Gray - $5 mill
'08 1st round pick - $2 mill
'09 1st round pick - $2 mill

That's $41 million in committed salary. The NBA salary cap is currently $55.6 million. Based on recent trends, my guess is $61 million would be a reasonable assumption for the 2010-11 salary cap.

That gives us $20 million in cap space to make a run at King James.

There are only two hang-ups:

1) Trading Hinrich and Nocioni for a guard whose deal expires in 2010 (or '09) could be difficult. We'd have to find a willing trade partner, plus we'd have to get a good enough player to keep the team competitive, and not look like a blatant salary dump to quell the inevitable PR hit. I haven't really looked at rosters and salaires, so I don't know who this anonymous player is right now. I'll be on the lookout...

2) Actually getting James to sign on the dotted line. I think a lineup of Gordon, Deng, and Tyrus & Noah (with 2.5 more years of seasoning) would be attractive. That team should be able to stay playoff competitive.

Hopefully LeBron could see the potential of the team with him in the lineup. Gordon would be the 3-point assassin feasting off LeBron's penetration. Deng would be the skilled wingmate; moving without the ball, and being the recipient of LeBron's deft passes. Tyrus and Noah would be the long, active post players who could protect the paint, clean up the glasses, and start the fast break if need be. And by then, I think they could have decent offensive skillsets (especially Tyrus). Plus the '08 and '09 picks could yield promising players.

And then there are the financial ramifications. Chicago is obviously a much bigger media market than Cleveland. New York and L.A. could also be players. Scratch off the Clippers simply because they're the Clippers. Kobe more than likely stays in L.A., and I highly doubt they'd team up. The Knicks are a hot mess. Scratch them off. The sleeper could be the Nets. They're moving to Brooklyn, and apparently LeBron and Jay-Z are tight. However, the Nets don't look like a very promising team in a few years. There's also the possibility LeBron stays in Cleveland, but I just don't see it. Ferry hasn't made any moves, and they have a lot of salary commited through 2009. They'll have a ton available in 2010, but that could be "too little too late". So all we gotta do is have Benny the Bull greet LeBron at the airport, let him throw out the first pitch at a Cubs game, and we got him.
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2010 Lineup

C Noah
PF Thomas
SF Deng
SG LeBron
PG Gordon

Some voiced concerns about LeBron playing the 2 even though the 3 is his natural position. I just don't envision this is a problem. LeBron is arguably the best athlete in the NBA. He shouldn't have any problem chasing SGs around. Offensively, I also don't see a problem. He would have the primary ball handling responsibilities, thus Gordon's dribbling deficiencies would be minimized. He would be absolutely lethal on kickouts. Deng would still be very effective slashing without the basketball, even moreso with LeBron spearheading the attack. Deng also said he wants to put the 3-point shot back in his game. At worst, Deng should be a functional 30% three-point shooter.

That's pretty much all I got.

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Post#69 » by Jo Jo English » Wed Jan 9, 2008 6:54 am

Magilla_Gorilla wrote:-= original quote snipped =-



I'd have to agree - weren't the rumors that West had already obtained an agreement from Shaq before he started dumping salary?


Definitely.

There was a clear reason West was looking to trade his starting center (Divac) to the Hornets for their first round draft pick.

Err, I should say reasons, plural.

1. Their pick, 13th overall, was Kobe Bryant.
2. Jerry West was sure he had a new starting center on the way.

That is one heck of a 1-2 punch to acquire in an off-season.
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Post#70 » by Action Paxson » Wed Jan 9, 2008 7:10 am

I think if the Bulls started to show that they were positioning themselves for maximum cap space in LeBron's free-agent year the media would make sure he knew that. We would have to do very little tampering.
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Post#71 » by Ebo21 » Wed Jan 9, 2008 5:37 pm

Why would LeBron want to play in Chicago? I doubt he would honestly.. He's not Kobe, he would want to make his own way with his own destiny. I believe he's rather play in NY but I highly doubt that would happen due to IT being incapable of putting pieces of value together.
The real place I could see LeBron heading to is ATL. I'm sure he could get his extra $$ in endorcements there. It has turned into the Hip Hop headquarters, and with LeBron on the team it would bring a new light to the city. Not to mention they have a miriad of trading options to work with.
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Post#72 » by blumeany » Wed Jan 9, 2008 5:45 pm

Never depend on a superstar 'running' away from a team. It doesn't happen all that often. Look at Kobe. Pax can't base his plans assuming that X player will leave. Usually the franchise will accommodate the star enough to keep them there. Things will eventually go good for Cleveland and LeBron won't want to leave.
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Post#73 » by Dieselbound&Down » Wed Jan 9, 2008 5:58 pm

dougthonus wrote:I've given it some more thought as well, and I'm also opposed to it.

I just thought about it for whatever reason and was throwing it against the wall.

The idea that coldfish and redlineVQ have of making out a plan where we structure our contracts to allow maximum cap space in that year, and then possibly just ship off Nocioni and play a S&T angle makes a lot more sense.


That is an interesting idea and one that could really work. Especially with Hinrich already signed to his contract and being able to negotiate Gordon and Lu this summer, it is actually very feasible. Once you have those three locked in on deals that favor one FA year, it wouldn't be too hard to get everything else in place. These workings would also be noticed by Lebron and his agent. Plant the seed early, nurture it and let Cleveland implode trying to keep him.
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Post#74 » by Shill » Wed Jan 9, 2008 6:25 pm

blumeany wrote:Never depend on a superstar 'running' away from a team. It doesn't happen all that often. Look at Kobe. Pax can't base his plans assuming that X player will leave. Usually the franchise will accommodate the star enough to keep them there. Things will eventually go good for Cleveland and LeBron won't want to leave.



It's our only external hope. You need a superstar to win a title in this league. Detroit Pistons "model" be damned. They won with 5 potential all-stars in the lineup. They all complemented each other well. Plus, I would argue that Billups was playing on a superstar level in the finals against the Lakers. He truly earned the "Mr. Big Shot" moniker.

Gotta have a superstar. There are only three ways to do it:

1) Draft one - I doubt we'll be bad enough to have a shot at one
2) Trade for one - Teams aren't apt to give them away (unless McHale is the GM). The Kobe "talks" were hot air. Mitch had no intentions of trading Bean. What other superstars are looking for a way out? Besides, there's really no way to plan for this.
3) Sign one - The Lakers signed Shaq. The Suns signed Steve Nash. There's no guarantee we can get LeBron for DWade to sign, but how silly would we look if 2010 rolled around, James or Wade want out, and we've got all our money tied up?


Have the cap space available. The chances of James or Wade signing aren't any worse than the other methods for acquiring a superstar.

Besides, I think a lineup of:

C Noah
PF Thomas
SF Deng
SG Thabo/'08 pick/'09 pick
PG Gordon

would be a nice, young team to have. With a couple years of seasoning, they wouldn't be any worse than the current roster we've assembled.

If we get shunned by James or Wade, I could live with having that roster in place. I mean really, what other choice do we have?
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Post#75 » by MGB8 » Sun Jan 13, 2008 2:23 am

Two small trades to help a smoother transition to 2010.

Trade 1 - Ben Wallace and VK to Cleveland for Larry Hughes and Damon Jones (1 year left). Jones gets sent home, and Hughes is a smaller contract that ends the same time as Wallace's.

Another alternative to this would be Wallace and Noc for Jerome James, Malike Rose, Quentin Richardson and a protected pick.

Noc is hard to trade this season, but next season you move him for shorter contracts if you do the first trade.

Additionally, you allow teams to offer for Kirk, but only for good value (shorter contracts and picks, or something like that).
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Post#76 » by TheOUTLAW » Sun Jan 13, 2008 3:27 am

People keep referencing LeBrons Nike contract without realizing that it will have ended by the time he becomes a free agent. Sure they might offer another that actually doubles if he goes to a bigger market (this one does not in fact) but I'm not sure his shoes have been successful enough to justify another 100mil contract.
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Post#77 » by Puertorique » Sun Jan 13, 2008 7:18 am

Nike will keep Bron signed on for life. For his next contract I think they could give him the "Jordan" treatment by giving him his own brand. If not they may do what Reebok did with AI and give him a Lifetime contract. I think AI may be the only player in the league with a lifetime shoe contract.
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Post#78 » by DanTown8587 » Sun Jan 13, 2008 9:19 am

Another, albeit risky option, is to clear your payroll of anyone beyond 10-11 and try and sign BOTH Wade and LBJ and give them the chance to play together. You could literally have open tryouts for the other ten spots on the team and be fine. Orlando did this with McGrady and Hill and LBJ and Wade would be a great fit together since they both want to win and the Boston way of life will spread through out the league. Imagine this team:
PG: Tryout Winner
SG: Wade
SF: LeBron
PF: Marcus Fizer
C: Dickey Simpkins

That team would win the east.
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