Bucks-Jazz Postgame Thread 1/14/08

[-Jragon-]

-= original quote snipped =-



Bogut was also doubled at that west cost trip against Clippers, Warriors, Sonics, Blazers. That was first time in his life that he faced constant double team and he didn't know how to deal with that. That was main reason why Bucks stoped using him that much after that.

Now he is again facing double team and he still has problem with that.

THAT IS ALL NORMAL AND EXPECTED. It's all new for him. The only way for him to learn that is to keep going at him in that situations. That is not something that you can learn at practice. You have to learn that in real game situation with real and serious oponent.

This is all humorous to me because Bogut commanding a double team is the only thing that makes plays with him passing out of the post effective. If anything he should get the ball more, not less because of this. You are right. He just needs more practice on getting the ball out effectively and with the right timing.

[0BobLobLaw0]

I dont know if this has been said yet, but my favorite part of last night was Bogut got reposted up TWICE. I think that might be a 200% improvement from this whole year so far. 1st time was early in the game I beleive, and he was able to put an easy lay in, 2nd time was late in the 4th, mo threw it in, bogut kicked it out, got deeper in the middle of the lane, and mo re-fed him, he got to the line and made 1 of 2, but man that was great to see.

[showtimesam]

So are me & Xtitan still ''Bogut nut huggers'' for wanting the Bucks to use Bogut more often or does Bogut have to have a few more 20+ & 10+ games for us to be guys who just want whats best for the Bucks.

Like I been saying for months Bogut is a confidence player,let Bogut touch the ball on a consistient bases and his confidence will go up and so will his production.

Like I also been saying,Bogut is a winner surrounded by a bunch of me first cancers.Put Bogut in a positive/winning sistuation and he'll probably be an all star.

One more thing,where the hell is classicjack? Dude has been MIA since the Bucks put in more plays for Bogut.


As for the game horrible coaching by Larry K,just awful.

Hey don't forget about my, I was right with you two in backing bogut.

[showtimesam]

Sure we are losing, but the important part is that the bucks are slowly becoming Bogut's team.

That is the key to our success, and Bogut is really finding his comfort zone in the post.

Now its imperative that LH, Kohl, or whoever is calling the shots makes a move to send either mo or redd packing to a team that wants one of them enough to also take on simmons and give us a quality starting small forward and perhaps a nice defensive post player behind bogut and Yi.
I

[europa]

Sure we are losing, but the important part is that the bucks are slowly becoming Bogut's team.

I was going to start a thread about this last night but I think it's a bit premature. We need to see more games like the ones we've seen from Bogut before I'm ready to take that step. But we are definitely inching closer and if he can keep playing like he has since the new year I agree - it will be time to give the team to Bogut and go from there.

[Rockmaninoff]

Bogut can save this team of jump shooters, if he can consistantly draw a double team...and if his jumpshooting teammates can realize that that is the key.

[europa]

Bogut can save this team of jump shooters, if he can consistantly draw a double team...and if his jumpshooting teammates can realize that that is the key.

In the first half they did. There was great offensive balance. Redd was doing a great job of working within the flow of the offense and he, Mo and Bell were all shooting 50% from the floor or better. Bogut was establishing himself inside and the perimeter shooting was working well as a result. It was a wonderful display of team offense.

But in the fourth quarter, the Jazz responded by taking Bogut away and the chucking began because Mo and Redd lacked the basketball smarts to do anything else. That is where having a standout PG can make all the difference. When things go awry in Utah, Williams is there to settle things down and make sure his team gets something productive. Last night when things went awry, that didn't happen for the Bucks because they lack that type of player who can ensure things don't spiral out of control.

[paulpressey25]

But in the fourth quarter, the Jazz responded by taking Bogut away and the chucking began because Mo and Redd lacked the basketball smarts to do anything else.

100% agreement.....

[smauss]

Thanks Ilhan & RBCV!

[-Jragon-]

I also should add that the Bucks used the lineup that I have been hoping for with mo, bell, redd, yi, and bogut. What ruined it was that Redd had the ball early in the shot clock instead of bogut, bell or mo who should have the ball. Redd should have gotten the ball for open 3 looks (or pump fake drives) closer to the end of the shot clock, like he did for team USA.

Not to quote myself, I know that's weird, but I should create a sig about this. Redd should get the ball with 10 seconds in the shot clock left since he isn't really a threat to make a great pass anyways. Everyone can go for the rebound with the understanding that he is going to take a shot. Wasn't Reggie Miller kind of like that? He was a decoy for others to make plays, and when they went to him they knew he was going to shoot or try to score so they got in rebound position.

[smauss]

-= original quote snipped =-



100% agreement.....

But LK let it go on. I was waiting for a timeout but none was forthcoming! It's one thing to have dumb players on the floor but its another thing altogether to keep them there.......

[europa]

-= original quote snipped =-



But LK let it go on. I was waiting for a timeout but none was forthcoming! It's one thing to have dumb players on the floor but its another thing altogether to keep them there.......

So much for the merit system.

[Rockmaninoff]

-= original quote snipped =-



100% agreement.....

I agree also...that's why I've campaigned for Charlie Bell to start and finish games at the point guard, since before the season. Not here granted, but on other forums. Larry Harris has all the emails, ask him if you don't believe me.

Now, your going to tell me why Charlie Buck isn't a point guard, and I'm going to show you his good assist to turnover ratio, his winning pedigree (NCAA champion, Euro star, etc.), his wealth of experience, and his rank as one of the smartest basketball minds on the team.

I'd rather have the ball in his hands at the end of games, then in the hands of Michael Redd or Mo Williams. I'm positive he would make the right decision, as well as constantly disrupting the point of attack on defense.

Royal Ivey is good, but he is no Charlie Bell.

[smauss]

-= original quote snipped =-



So much for the merit system.

I was thinking the same thing!

[Rockmaninoff]

-= original quote snipped =-

Not to quote myself, I know that's weird, but I should create a sig about this. Redd should get the ball with 10 seconds in the shot clock left since he isn't really a threat to make a great pass anyways. Everyone can go for the rebound with the understanding that he is going to take a shot. Wasn't Reggie Miller kind of like that? He was a decoy for others to make plays, and when they went to him they knew he was going to shoot or try to score so they got in rebound position.

You are correct, sir. Redd should be shooting and driving off of screens. Catch and shoot, catch and drive. Staying in motion, without the ball. He shouldn't be a facilitator, nor a dribble penetrator. He should just do what he does well. But, can the humble man of God accept that?

[Buck You]

-= original quote snipped =-



I agree also...that's why I've campaigned for Charlie Bell to start and finish games at the point guard, since before the season. Not here granted, but on other forums. Larry Harris has all the emails, ask him if you don't believe me.

Now, your going to tell me why Charlie Buck isn't a point guard, and I'm going to show you his good assist to turnover ratio, his winning pedigree (NCAA champion, Euro star, etc.), his wealth of experience, and his rank as one of the smartest basketball minds on the team.

I'd rather have the ball in his hands at the end of games, then in the hands of Michael Redd or Mo Williams. I'm positive he would make the right decision, as well as constantly disrupting the point of attack on defense.

Royal Ivey is good, but he is no Charlie Bell.

Charlie Bell can not run a team. He makes some good passes on fast breaks but he can not consistently run a team, he's not a point guard. Mo Williams is the guy I want as a pg at the end of the game. He does make a lot of good decisions with the ball.

[unklchuk]

"Mo Williams is the guy I want as a pg at the end of the game. He does make a lot of good decisions with the ball."

Preseason, I would have simply disagreed with this opinion. Now I see that Mo does make some good decisions with the ball. But I think equally often he makes bad ones.

We've all seen him P&P at the end of games. Penetrate and panic. OK, he probably doesn't panic emotionally, but he commits himself without knowing what his options are, and is forced into a random pass that bounces off a random player of either team and becomes a turnover. Or he reverts to the guard-dominated stuff that everyone is now down on.

I think he'll get better as he gains experience as a leader. But, for the present at minimum, the Bucks don't have anyone who can run the team.

ETA: The lack of a unifying leader results in the Bucks looking like a genuine basketball team only when their shots are falling.

[europa]

Mo is having the best season of his career. No question. I've been pleased with a lot of the improvements he's made in terms of PG skills. But these last two games have driven home rather conclusively in my opinion the value of a standout PG and how far removed Mo is from that level of play.

[Rockmaninoff]

-= original quote snipped =-

Charlie Bell can not run a team. He makes some good passes on fast breaks but he can not consistently run a team, he's not a point guard. Mo Williams is the guy I want as a pg at the end of the game. He does make a lot of good decisions with the ball.

What evidence do you have to say that? If I recall correctly, there was a game at the beginning of the season in which Mo Williams was benched (Chicago?) and Bell came in and closed the game out, masterfully, at the point guard position.

Who told you he wasn't a point guard and why can't he run a team? Use your imagination. Don't tell me it's because he can't dribble, because ever time I see him, he takes good care of the ball. I'd say he has the best Bball IQ on the team, besides King Bogut, and Lord Yi. The guy has been a winner everywhere he has been. He might not make the flashy pass, but he will always make the open pass. And, he provides defense at the point of attack. Don't you guys see that the lack of that is killing this team?

I don't have an agenda when it comes to the players on this team. I just want to see them put into the right positions to succeed.

[Nowak008]

But in the fourth quarter, the Jazz responded by taking Bogut away and the chucking began because Mo and Redd lacked the basketball smarts to do anything else.

What are they supposed to do then? If Bogut is taken out of the game we have nothing else besides Mo and Redd. I'm not excusing them from some poor play down the stretch, but we don't have a starting SF or PF ...and last night we didn't even have a capable back up SF or PF.