In 3 years who will be the best pro?

[IggyTheBEaST]

Iggy has definitly not maxed out his potential. I know you think he is a third option. Soa re you saying you dont think he could ever be a #2 guy? The more his shot improves the better and better he will become. He can get to the basket, he can get to the line, if he can develope a better jump shot...

He is still very young, his handles could improve, his decision making will improve, his turnovers will go down.

He definitly has not hit his ceiling

[SendEm]

Yes I do think that Iggy is POTENTIALLY a #3. Right now he is a #4, 90% on his way to being a true #3. Like I have always said before you can't pair any single player that has ever played in the NBA with Iguodala as the second best player on that and have that team win an NBA championship. So by definition he is currently not a #2, and I don't think that he will ever reach #2 status. The skill set just isn't there. People give Iggy extra credit due to his open floor slam dunking. But overlook his inability to drive strong in the half court for dunks like 6'6" SG/SF should be a threat to do on every play.

[Johnny Broad-Street]

I agree. Iggy is limited. He's a VERY nice player if you have him as the third option. I think he's similar to Richard Jefferson.

[SendEm]

I agree. Iggy is limited. He's a VERY nice player if you have him as the third option. I think he's similar to Richard Jefferson.

Yes RJ is currently what I consider a #3. Iggy is not on RJ's level because RJ can average 23+ points per game on a bad team and 20 on a good team while Iggy is a 18ppg+ on a bad team and a 15ppg+ on a good team. Hopefully Iggy can reach RJ's level but realistically it won't happen because Iggy lacks that kind of ball handling, agility, aggressiveness.

[barkley34]

Sendem I know you dislike Iguodala but you need to keep in mind a couple of points about Iguodala.

1) He is having teams design their entire defensive system to stop him. If we had another star and he was 2nd fiddle he wouldn't have that issue.

2) He is drawing the other teams best perimeter defender every game. In the last 2 games he had to match up against Bowen and Battier. You mentioned Lebron, if he was playing with Lebron than he would have had a much easier match up because Lebron would have been defended by those outstanding defensive players.

He wasn't great with Iverson but he was only a kid at that point of his career. And he had an outstanding rookie season playing with Iverson when O'Brien was using a different system than Cheeks.

Iggy will probably never be a #1 but should be a terrific 2nd/3rd option for the Sixers. Its the GM's responsibility to go out and find the pieces so Iggy can slide into his natural spot instead of being forced into the primary role.

You can take most 2nd options on teams and take away their star and put them in the primary role and they would struggle. Take Dirk away from Josh Howard and let teams start designing game plans to stop Howard and put their best defensive player on him every game and you'll see him get exposed as well.

You mention Richard Jefferson but teams aren't designing game plans to stop him like they are with Iggy. He has this hall of famer named Jason Kidd drawing all the attention of the opposing defense.

[tk76]

barkley34, agree 100% with you assessment. Probably better and more succinctly put than my attempts.

Send-Em, if Dala is 90% to being a legit #3 on a winner (your assessment) who do you see as the other 23-30 year old #3's out there in the league today?

[SendEm]

Iguodala does not have special defenses designed to stop him and teams do not automatically put there best defender on him. I don't remember Bowen guarding Iggy, Udoka was guarding Iggy and Bowen was guarding Green.

Some 23-30 year old #3's:
Howard, Josh
Butler, Caron
Johnson, Joe
Jackson, Stephen
Jefferson, Al
Kaman, Chris (right NOW he is...Before, not so much...He could be statically benefitting from being on a bad team just like Iggy)
Kirilenko, Andrei (Jerry Sloane has mentally ruined him)
Lewis, Rashard
Marion, Shawn
Martin, Kevin
Odom, Lamar (Sometimes plays like a #4, sometimes a #2...)
Prince, Tayshaun
Wallace, Gerald

[tk76]

Those guys average about 13-14M/year. Assuming Iguodala is 90% there now (and those are some good players on that list- I hope in 2 years Iguodala belongs on it.)- would you be unhappy with us paying him 10M next year? Keep in mind, that would end up being 56M over 5 seasons after normal raises.

Or do you just dislike his game, and want him moved regardless?

In my mind, if his attitude stays in check, he is a great #3, because he doesn't require much accommodation. He can play either SG or SF depending on your other talent, and there are not any huge holes in his game that require you to have certain other players around him to make up for his weaknesses. Maybe he's not a great shooter- but that has improved to where it no longer is a liability.

[IggyTheBEaST]

Sendem I know you dislike Iguodala but you need to keep in mind a couple of points about Iguodala.

1) He is having teams design their entire defensive system to stop him. If we had another star and he was 2nd fiddle he wouldn't have that issue.

2) He is drawing the other teams best perimeter defender every game. In the last 2 games he had to match up against Bowen and Battier. You mentioned Lebron, if he was playing with Lebron than he would have had a much easier match up because Lebron would have been defended by those outstanding defensive players.

He wasn't great with Iverson but he was only a kid at that point of his career. And he had an outstanding rookie season playing with Iverson when O'Brien was using a different system than Cheeks.

Iggy will probably never be a #1 but should be a terrific 2nd/3rd option for the Sixers. Its the GM's responsibility to go out and find the pieces so Iggy can slide into his natural spot instead of being forced into the primary role.

You can take most 2nd options on teams and take away their star and put them in the primary role and they would struggle. Take Dirk away from Josh Howard and let teams start designing game plans to stop Howard and put their best defensive player on him every game and you'll see him get exposed as well.

You mention Richard Jefferson but teams aren't designing game plans to stop him like they are with Iggy. He has this hall of famer named Jason Kidd drawing all the attention of the opposing defense.

We should give awards to posts this good!

I hate that argumetn about Iggy not working with Iverson. Dre wasnt developed at that point. It wasnt that iverson was monopolizing the offense, Igoudala refused to get involved and was passive in every aspect of the offense minus fast breaks. He just flat out was not ready at that point in time.

Well said Barkley

[barkley34]

Iguodala does not have special defenses designed to stop him

Every teams primary scorer has a game plan from the opposing coach to limit him. That is just basic basketball and the reason they have advanced scouts etc,, Iggy is no different as our primary offensive player who has the ball often he is the focal point of the other teams defensive game plan. If they weren't designing defenses to limit his effectiveness than the other teams coaches wouldn't be doing their job. Iverson used to get that scrutiny but now that he is gone they focus on Iggy because most of our offense flows through him.

and teams do not automatically put there best defender on him. I don't remember Bowen guarding Iggy, Udoka was guarding Iggy and Bowen was guarding Green.

What? Of course he draws the other teams best defensive wing player every night. How could Udoka been his primary defender when he only played 19 minutes? You really think Willie is drawing the other teams best defensive player? Come on man now you're just hating.

[SendEm]

Due to my belief that Iggy is a #4 and not a #3 that makes him easily replaceable, ESPECIALLY on a team that isn't a contender and can afford to ship him away without being scared of ruining a their chemistry/winning percentage.

No way the Sixers should pay Iggy a contract starting at $10. I believe that's what Josh Howard and Kevin Martin are making. Manu and Tony Parker are still making less than $10 million with several more years left. Iggy looks to be worth more than Marco Jaric and less than Manu Ginobili. $8.5 million with yearly raises...

[SendEm]

Iggy fans have the most excuses for him.

1. Iverson was holding him back
2. He was timid when he first entered the league
3. Defenses are now geared specifically to stop him
4. He needs to play with a great player

Can't you Iggy fans see that you are talking in circles? Just look at the four points that Iggy fans use, don't they look just like a freakin circle? He went from being less of a player because he played with a great player, now he needs to play with one? He use to be scared to score the ball, now he doesn't look that good scoring in half court offenses because the defense is keyed on him? That's all some Iggy fan BS, Iggy is simply NOT THAT GOOD. The End.

[tk76]

Iggy looks to be worth more than Marco Jaric and less than Manu Ginobili. $8.5 million with yearly raises...

With the normal 10% raise that means 5yrs 53M. I bet that's about what he gets- and that sounds fair.

He was offered 5 years at 57M- which is a 9M starting contract with yearly raises. People act like he was offered more, but he wasn't. He wanted more, but that is another issue entirely.

[MJallday59]

Without a good point guard, Iggy will not perform. I think Gilbert Arenas hit it on the head when he said

"He just doesn't have it"

Andre Iguodala is a glorified roleplayer. Infact he's one of the best third options available and would be great with a point guard such as Jason Kidd, Steve Nash. In the half court set...he seems to get lost a lot.

[Dedicated_76ers_fan]

Andre Iguodala has the ability to impact the game in mulitple ways. He can rebound, he can dish, and he can score a little. That's what he was asked to do with Iverson and Jim O'Brien. Mo changed that around completely and it was amplified once Iverson left.

Iggy's not a go to guy, he might not even be a #2, unless he gets his head together. But he is a premier swing man in the league.

[MicrOLak3R]

Once he understands he isn't a 1st option. Only then will this team go anywhere. no need to be pissy at your teammates. Go out and leave it all on the court.

[Dedicated_76ers_fan]

He's been FORCEFED the crap that he is a #1. To go out and say suddendly "Oh wait Iggy, the offense doesn't revolve around you", leaves him in a very confused state. And us in a worse situation.

The best thing to have done was not to have a #1 "guy" at all. Just play bball.

[noone]

1. Iverson was holding him back

At that time, yes Iverson was holding him back. Every player with untapped potential needs opportunities to come into his own. Andre's nature of being passive along with Iverson and Webber dominating the ball kept him from tapping into that potential. Since they left, Andre has gotten that opportunity, motivation, or whatever else it may have been and has found his game at this level. Now if you were to put Iverson back on this team, Andre would flourish.

2. He was timid when he first entered the league

See above. His timidness kept him from ever having a chance to reach his potential with Iverson and Webber on the roster. But if you were to put that same team back on the court now, Andre would be a much better player as would the team as a whole.

3. Defenses are now geared specifically to stop him

I wouldn't say defenses are geared to stop him as much as they are for superstars, but it doesn't take more than a little common sense to realise that the best player on any team would get the most attention on defense and that said player would also be the main focus of the opposing coaches defensive game plan.

4. He needs to play with a great player

As does any #2 or #3 player in this league.

I wouldn't call that going in circles. That's just how it is with most players. Look at Joe Johnson for example. That Phoenix team was holding him back from fully tapping his potential. He didn't breakout until he came to Atlanta and the ball was put into his hands. Same with Andre, but of course instead of Andre being traded away, those holding him back were. But now, just like with Andre, Johnson won't (and hasn't) get very far without playing with a great player or two. And now even Durant is going through the same thing (Lewis and Allen let go), though at a much earlier point in his career.

Players that are good passers who can create for themselves as well as others need the ball in their hands at some point in their career to fully tap into their potential. It's all a process.

[SendEm]

Andre Iguodala has the ability to impact the game in mulitple ways. He can rebound, he can dish, and he can score a little. That's what he was asked to do with Iverson and Jim O'Brien. Mo changed that around completely and it was amplified once Iverson left.

Iggy's not a go to guy, he might not even be a #2, unless he gets his head together. But he is a premier swing man in the league.

Iggy's rebounding and passing ability are overrated. His rebounding is DEFINITELY overrated. He's 6'6" and doesn't even average 7 rebounds. I'd hardly call him any kind of rebounder worth mentioning. His passing ability seems to be a function of his lack of penetration skills. It's like a play that would be an easy 2 points for Gerald Wallace becomes a pass for Andre Iguodala...

One thing that Iggy fans never seem to get a firm grasp of is Iggy's low production levels for the 39 minutes that he is out on the court. It's not as if Iggy averages the numbers that he produces in 30 minutes or off the bench, NO, it takes Iggy an exorbitant amount of minutes on a team where he is a focal point to attain what are only average numbers for a good player with his physical talents. Just think about it, if Iggy ever had to come off the bench for a team what would he contribute? He's not a decent points per minute guy, nor is he a rebound or assist per minute guy. What could he do besides wait for someone to throw him the ball so that he could dunk it on a fast break? These are the things that I think about. Iggy to me is like one of those Honda owners that put the loud mufflers on their cars and mash the gas at every opportunity to achieve the appearance of being a fast car. While a v10 Audi is a fast car whether it has a stock muffler and is driven by an 80 year old woman. Iggy is being put in the position to appear to be something that he clearly is not, and therefore should not be locked into a HUGE long term deal like he is pursuing. Iggy is not the genuine article. I don't want the future of my FAVORITE Philadelphia team hamstrung by this poser.

[SendEm]

1. Iverson was holding him back

At that time, yes Iverson was holding him back. Every player with untapped potential needs opportunities to come into his own. Andre's nature of being passive along with Iverson and Webber dominating the ball kept him from tapping into that potential. Since they left, Andre has gotten that opportunity, motivation, or whatever else it may have been and has found his game at this level. Now if you were to put Iverson back on this team, Andre would flourish.

2. He was timid when he first entered the league

See above. His timidness kept him from ever having a chance to reach his potential with Iverson and Webber on the roster. But if you were to put that same team back on the court now, Andre would be a much better player as would the team as a whole.

3. Defenses are now geared specifically to stop him

I wouldn't say defenses are geared to stop him as much as they are for superstars, but it doesn't take more than a little common sense to realise that the best player on any team would get the most attention on defense and that said player would also be the main focus of the opposing coaches defensive game plan.

4. He needs to play with a great player

As does any #2 or #3 player in this league.

I wouldn't call that going in circles. That's just how it is with most players. Look at Joe Johnson for example. That Phoenix team was holding him back from fully tapping his potential. He didn't breakout until he came to Atlanta and the ball was put into his hands. Same with Andre, but of course instead of Andre being traded away, those holding him back were. But now, just like with Andre, Johnson won't (and hasn't) get very far without playing with a great player or two. And now even Durant is going through the same thing (Lewis and Allen let go), though at a much earlier point in his career.

Players that are good passers who can create for themselves as well as others need the ball in their hands at some point in their career to fully tap into their potential. It's all a process.

Good stuff. BUT. The Joe Johnson comparison is off. Joe Johnson had proven that he was a high caliber player, but he didn't prove that he could be the man and worth the amount of money he signed for. Iggy has proven that he is just a good player. John Salmons would be a better comparison to Iggy because unlike both of those guys Joe Johnson can play without the ball the ENTIRE game and score 40+ points.