How good is Al Jefferson?

[DrunkOnMystery]

The drop in Howard's ppg numbers have coincided with a drop in his shot attempts. This is equal parts defenses keying on him and Hedo's great year convincing him that he's the Turkish Jordan, and that he should dominate the ball completely for the final 15 minutes of any game that's remotely close.

[D1SGRUNTL3D]

the team is bad ... youth is one of the things that makes them bad. dont get me wrong i like alot of the wolves players but that doesnt make the team better.

Id say youth is primarily the reason why the record is bad.

oh well, this seasons based more along progression, not wins/losses. although winning is awesome,especially as of late

[horaceworthy]

d12 has other players suronding him ... two infact that are scoring almost 20 a game... what the defense does dictates how much d12 scores if the d sags the perimiter guys get it if the d plays him straight up he dominates... thus defenses are changing how they play the magic right now so d12's numbers are in a slight decline.. not becuase he isnt performing the same he takes what the defense gives him.

mean while al (which is a bada$$) plays on a horrible team putting up great numbers.... im just saying

Big Al playing on a horrible team actually doesn't help him when it comes to putting up numbers. It means he has to face constant double and triple teams and either fight through them or pass to someone the defense doesn't respect.

Orlando's surrounded Dwight with shooters that help space the floor (the defense is forced to give him more). It isn't really a fair comparison. The Wolves have maybe two somewhat reliable outside shooters, McCants and Jaric, and that's really stretching the meaning of reliable.

[Doctor MJ]

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Every post I see on Al from you, he is "much worse" at something than X player. First it's being a "much worse" offensive player than Dwight(Which I think is wrong) and now he is a much, much, much worse player than KG. With that logic, Dwyane Wade is much, much, much worse than Posey because of the difference between the Celtic success and Miami success.


Yeah...

What can I say? People are talking about him like he's an elite player because he puts up big stats, despite the fact his team is going nowhere with it. I think he's overrated.

If you wanted to argue "You're exaggerating what people say about Jefferson", I'd listen to that. However you evidently have a problem with me saying Garnett's way better than him, so I think I'm guaging that appropriately.

Your Posey comment is just silly.

[ny_illmatic]

wrong thread

[DH34Phan]

I would compare him to Zach Randolph. Puts up great stats on crappy teams.

[Doctor MJ]

I would compare him to Zach Randolph. Puts up great stats on crappy teams.

That's an excellent comparison to keep in mind. Hopefully it's clear to everyone here how meaningless Randolph's stats were. I don't claim certainty that Jefferson's are meaningless, but until a guy actually lifts his team to consistent success, you just never know.

[scottyo50]

keeping in mind, that last season, KG put up big numbers on a **** timberwolves team, shouldnt he get compared to Randolph?

I realise its not the same, but that argument is a lot harder to make for a post player than a perimiter player. The perimiter player on the **** team doesnt have to cope with the constant double teams, whilst a post player on a **** team does. He constantly will have double teams sent his way, and will have to actually work through said defence, to obtain his 'inflated stats'.

[WesWesley]

so.....does that mean that Wade is "only a good player on a bad team"

flawed logic.

actually right now that is exactly right.

Wade is a good player, and he's on a bad team.... it's actually perfect logic.

[theGreatRC]

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actually right now that is exactly right.

Wade is a good player, and he's on a bad team.... it's actually perfect logic.

You read it wrong.

only a good player on a bad team.

[horaceworthy]

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What can I say? People are talking about him like he's an elite player because he puts up big stats, despite the fact his team is going nowhere with it. I think he's overrated.

If you wanted to argue "You're exaggerating what people say about Jefferson", I'd listen to that. However you evidently have a problem with me saying Garnett's way better than him, so I think I'm guaging that appropriately.

Your Posey comment is just silly.

I really do think you're gauging it wrong. Before this past week, nobody other than Minnesota and Boston fans was really talking about him as anything more than a player putting up stats on a bad team (which I disagree with). He's getting some steam around him now, but that's only because he put up borderline monster stats and the Timberwolves went 3-2, with the two losses coming in one possession games against Denver and Boston.

I don't think anybody's calling him an elite player, at most I think I've seen people say he has a chance to be an elite player. I don't think that's too out of line, but he has a ways to go before he gets there.

I also don't think the "Look at what happened to Minny and Boston when KG switched jerseys" argument has been fairly represented. Yes, Boston's catapulted themselves into the league's elite, and KG has been the main impetus for that rise, but the Celtics also added Ray Allen, Posey, House, and Glen Davis, Paul Pierce (missed 35 games), Perkins (hampered by a bad foot I believe) and Tony Allen (coming off of injury, but already played more games this year than he did last year), plus, Rondo's a year older and more experienced. Garnett's the face, but it's been a wholesale change in Boston.

As for Minnesota, they didn't just deal away KG, they also dealt away Ricky Davis, Trenton Hassell, Mark Blount (surprisingly effective player for the Wolves) and Mike James (a disappointment, but still a better PG than what the Wolves have trotted out this year). Randy Foye just played his first minutes of the year against Chicago. Including Garnett, that makes it arguably the top 6 players from last year that the Wolves jettisoned and replaced with young, inexperienced and mistake prone players. Yes, the Wolves are worse than last year, but it isn't the same group that won 32 games last year. Only 5 players remain from that team (McCants, Smith, Foye-only played 18 minutes all year-, Madsen-for all intents and purposes, a mascot-, Jaric). Also, the Wolves finished out last season under Wittman with a 12-30 record (the Wolves were 20-20 with Dwane Casey at the helm). Their start this year was only 4 games off that pace.

For the record, I do think that Garnett is a much better player than Big Al (I think KG's Top 5, Big Al's Top 25), but the gap between them isn't nearly as wide as the disparity in the records of their respective teams.

As for the Randolph comparison that got brought up later, it's nothing you need to tell people to keep in mind. Every time an Al Jefferson thread pops up it seems to take about 8 posts for someone to bring it up, since they're both guys capable of putting up 20/10 without elite athleticism. Personally, I don't think it's as accurate as some make it out to be. Jefferson spends more time with his back to the basket (Randolph's more of a face-up guy than people give him credit for), has better footwork, plays better defense (it still needs improvement), shoots a higher percentage, and he's a better rebounder. At first glance the numbers look virtually identical, but upon closer inspection, Al's are better.

[Sephiroth]

How good is Al Jefferson?

All Star Good.

Big Al one of the best post scorers in the league. He's a great rebounder because he boxes out and has a nose for the offensive glass. He's only going to get better. Also, for a player as good as Big Al, his contract is more than reasonable.

Come on, the guy just dropped 26 & 20 on the Bulls last night. He's having quite a January.

[Basti]

how good is al jefferson?


reeeeeeaaally good

[Harry Heinous]

The Randolph comparison is laughable. Al Jefferson will be 10x better. When he dominates the wolves usually win. There team is terrible, and no the "he's only looks good because he's on a bad team" argument does not work with Al. He's the real deal.

[D1SGRUNTL3D]

ask how many gms would take jefferson over randolph.

compariable my ass

[Patterns]

Jefferson is good but he puts up the quietest 20/10 since SAR.

Bynum is better though.

[Basti]

Jefferson is good but he puts up the quietest 20/10 since SAR.

Bynum is better though.

the quiestest 20/10??? do you know how many and1s he had in the past games??

[Raptorian]

There is no doubt that Jefferson has put up some good numbers against good teams this year (the Phoenix games come to mind).... BUT he won't get consideration as an elite player until he plays on a decent team. There are a lot of players who have put up nice numbers on bad teams (as mentioned earlier) and some of them go on to lead their teams to the playoffs, while others disappear from the NBA.

Really with Jefferson, time will tell and you can't make any definitive statements right now.

[D1SGRUNTL3D]

No doubt the wolves are playing through jefferson now and taking advantages of his sick post skills.

We're actually winning games now, and almost had a win @ boston. This is a different team then what you saw in november and december.

(hope i didnt just jinx it)

[GJense4181]

Al Jefferson is good enough that in three years a Kevin Garnett for Jefferson trade, straight-up, would have been worth it.
Once Garnett declines even his intangibles won't make up for the statistics that Jefferson, as a center, will be posting.