OT: Shaq to Phoenix more than a rumor

[miller31time]

The Shaquille O'Neal trade to the Phoenix Suns is not a rumor.

In fact, I expect it to happen sometime early afternoon on Wednesday.

O'Neal will be in Phoenix on Wednesday for a physical, according to a Suns team source.

The Suns have moved Wednesday morning's shoot-around, which was originally scheduled at 9:45 a.m., to 4:45 p.m. - hours prior to their contest against the New Orleans Hornets.

The Suns will part ways with Shawn Marion and Marcus Banks and move to a conventional style with O'Neal playing the 5.

http://www.ktar.com/sports/?nid=126&sid=724522

Not sure if a more credible source is needed, but that one seemed pretty damn credible to me.

I know we have a thread for other teams moves, but like the Gasol trade, this is momentous.

[clubbing_caveman]

After Riley said Shaq was not on the trading block, I find it a bit unbelievable. Also, how would Shaq pass the physical (or does that matter)? If this happens, then it certainly would open the door for a lot more moves. Looks like the Gasol deal started a trend.

[miller31time]

Yahoo! sports jumps in on the action.

[MJG]

Great deal for Miami, if that's what it is. If they want to keep Marion, he's better and younger than Shaq. If they aren't sure they want to keep him, his contract is shorter (possibly expiring, depending on whether he uses his option), saving them big money.

I fail to see any real upside for Phoenix.

[miller31time]

I fail to see any real upside for Phoenix.

Only one I can think of is jersey sales.

[Induveca]

-= original quote snipped =-



Only one I can think of is jersey sales.

Shaq is one of the best passing big men in history.........

With Nash/Bell/Barbosa patrolling the three point line and Hill/Stoudemire slashing in the lane? I wouldn't be surprised to see Shaq post a 10 assist game before the season is over.

Kerr is going for the 80s Laker formula. Phoenix is still very capable of running, but they can also now dominate in the half court set. And yes this is assuming Shaq arrives motivated, which I believe he will based upon his personality/history.

Also, this deal is obviously a counter to the Laker trade, as well as their inability to match up with San Antonio. Gasol/Bynum vs Stoudemire/Shaq, Duncan/Oberto vs Stoudemire/Shaq.

The status quo in Phoenix was winning nothing, and their window was closing rapidly. Kerr is going for it all. Good move.

We're also seeing GMs abandon small ball. For all the hype around it for the past few years, in the end the big men hoisted the trophy.

[mudyez]

I'd really like to see this trade going down:

wade gets his pinky for brain (or was it batman+raobin?) and in combination with haslem its the perfect supporting duo for him...add a high draftpick and they may content soon again

as for phoenix: wow...I have to see mr. "cant stop a pick and roll" + mr. "whats helpside again?" play next to each other (without a real backup! they would average 11 fouls a night while oponents score 140 on them frequently (not saying the suns cant win nontheless)!

OT: Plz take a look at the link in my sig...there are only 2 slots open in the 08-fanatsy-draft (starting after the Allstargame) and it would be a pity if you would miss it!

[Chocolate City Jordanaire]

Supposedly it's a done deal barring a physical.

Playing devil's advocate what could the Suns be thinking?

1. Shaq's still got some good bsketball in him. (I don't think so unless he's suddenly better than what he's been in Miami this season.)
2. The Suns couldn't win it all with their current roster, so they had to do SOMETHING. (I agree here, especially after the Lakers just acquired Pau who will team with Bynum. Phoenix felt the pressure to add with Webber in the paint for GS and Brand about to return to LAC. Teams like Minny beat the Suns due to Al Jefferson and Gomes abusing them inside. The Suns had to get bigger).
3. Steve Nash's stats are in decline (and he's hurting) and perhaps Phoenix felt the need to make a radical move now or never get a championship. (I think this is clearly a panic trade).
4 Getting Shaq combines the best passing PG and the best passing C in the game on the same team. Combine with the best finisher, Amare; the fastest end-to-end player Barbosa; among the best three point shooters, Bell; and one of most efficient offensive players, Grant Hill--how bad can they be? (Phoenix still wins with Shaq)
5. Who's going to defend Amare AND Shaq in the playoffs? Apparently their answer for no post defense is to add huge post offense. Prior to this Phoenix had no answer for dunking bigs like Bynum. Old Shaq can still score or get fouled. (Seems to me this is all they could do in the middle.)

So, maybe the Suns might not be so crazy after all ...

I think the Suns have to be thinking they can emulate the Show Time Lakers when Kareem used to trail the play much of the time. Wish Shaq trailing, Phoenix can still score in transition with Amare, Barbosa, Raja, and Hill running and catching passes from Nash or from Shaq when he's in the game. In the playoffs, Shaq will get a ton of dunks and so will Amare.

I just don't think they will be any good defensively now, but then again when your offense is unreal in efficiency it might not matter at all.

[Chocolate City Jordanaire]

-= original quote snipped =-



Shaq is one of the best passing big men in history.........

With Nash/Bell/Barbosa patrolling the three point line and Hill/Stoudemire slashing in the lane? I wouldn't be surprised to see Shaq post a 10 assist game before the season is over.

Kerr is going for the 80s Laker formula. Phoenix is still very capable of running, but they can also now dominate in the half court set. And yes this is assuming Shaq arrives motivated, which I believe he will based upon his personality/history.

Also, this deal is obviously a counter to the Laker trade, as well as their inability to match up with San Antonio. Gasol/Bynum vs Stoudemire/Shaq, Duncan/Oberto vs Stoudemire/Shaq.

The status quo in Phoenix was winning nothing, and their window was closing rapidly. Kerr is going for it all. Good move.

We're also seeing GMs abandon small ball. For all the hype around it for the past few years, in the end the big men hoisted the trophy.

Sorry, I hadn't read this when I posted.

This is more brief and to the point, Induveca.

You and both see them going after the Showtime Lakers formula and who better to deal Shaq for that than Riley.

[Wiz99]

I think this is very simple calculus for the Suns.

They know they can get to the playoffs, with or without one of their core members, like Marion.

The open question for several years is "How do we beat the Spurs in the playoffs with such a small frontline and not excelling in the halfcourt?" You can expand that now to include "How do we beat a Lakers team with Gasol AND Bynum?"

They don't need Shaq to dominate in the regular season. They just need him to turn it on in the playoffs. At 34, not only by leaving behind that sad sack situation in Miami but suddenly contending for a ring AGAIN, I can see him being very motivated.

This deal makes a lot of sense to me.

[Wiz99]

Some people would ask how Shaq can pass a physical.

Willing to bet you the standard for the physical is not "Can he play 100% every night?" but "Will he be able to give us a 20 game burst in May and June?"

[nate33]

It's a monumentally stupid move by Kerr. Adding Shaq is going to force them to change everything they've done in the past 3 seasons. All the motion and movement in their offense is going to grind to a halt. No more slashing and hard cuts for Marion and Stoudemire with Shaq clogging the lane. Say goodbye to their fastbreak attack. Marion was their fast break attack.

I don't think they'll be able to adapt quick enough. Stoudemire has never played in a half court system. Diaw sucked in a half court system. Raja Bell's offensive inadequacies will be exposed in a half court system.

Finally, if they really wanted a half court presence, why didn't they offer Marion and picks for Gasol? That's a much better deal for Memphis than the pooh-pooh plater they got from LA.

[JWizmentality]

Is there anyway we can get Brand for peanuts? God I wish he was in a Wiz uni

[Wiz99]

Nate, I agree a gazelle like Gasol would have been better than a diesel truck like Shaq. But let's say they tried and couldn't get Gasol cause Memphis wanted to dump salary, not add it. So Gasol's not an option.

Let me ask you this Q: what would you propose Phoenix do to change and be able to beat the likes of the Spurs or Lakers come playoff time?

Say what you want about last year's playoffs, the Suns didn't beat the Spurs, and they haven't gone to the finals anytime recently. That would be the Spurs and Lakers representing the West for every single year since 1998 (except for one year with Dallas).

[Wiz99]

I agree this move has risks for the Suns, but can they really just stand pat? What's the point of being second or third best if you feel like you're always a length behind the true contenders (which is pretty much the story of the Suns)? I'd do this trade, just to change the equation and see if I can beat those Spurs and Lakers this year. That's the real championship game anyhow.

[LyricalRico]

I don't necessarily have a problem with Phoenix making a desperate move. Nash isn't getting any younger and Marion isn't getting any happier.

That being said, I do have a few problems with this deal as reported:

1) Shaq is a shell of his former self and injured on top of that (of course the injury could have just been to keep him fresh for an upcoming trade). Maybe Phoenix is banking on him getting a boost from being in a new environment but I don't see it.

2) They add salary. Weren't they just a minute ago balking at extending Marion? And now they're willing to add another year at $20M for a guy who isn't as good?

3) What does Shaq do that Amare doesn't do better? It would be different if the Suns didn't have any bigs at all. But they have an All-Star PF/C...why trade for a guy who isn't even as good as the guy you already have? This does move Amare down to the 4 spot but he'll still be guarded by the likes of Duncan in the playoffs because the Spurs can afford to put stiff on O'Neal since he's not really a threat to go off for 30 anymore.

Hey, I could understand Phoenix going after Garnett. I didn't agree with it but I could understand it. And I understand their need to make a move. But this is going to be Steve Kerr's undoing.

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From Miami's side, this deal is friggin awesome! They add a super athletic forward who's young enough to play with Wade for years to come. They also add a scoring point guard. On top of that, they move some cap and now have the freedom to move their expirings for more talent. Maybe all of their expirings plus their 08 first for Mike Bibby and Kenny Thomas?

Blount/Barron
Haslem/Thomas
Marion/Jackson
Wade/Cook
Bibby/Banks

That group would have two months to make up 10 games to make the playoffs. I don't see why they couldn't do it. And then Boston would have a nightmare matchup in the first round.

Riles could save this thing yet. Props to him.

[jmrosenth]

The only reason why I could see the Suns doing this is if they thought that reupping Marion was a lost cause. As others have mentioned, he is a HUGE part of their current style at both ends, and their best/most versatile defender to boot. Shaq on the floor COMPLETELY changes everything they're about. I guess Kerr thought he couldn't win a title as constructed, but they certainly have come close. I probably would have given it one more playoff run. I don't subscribe to the "let's make a move to make a move theory." The Suns - as constructed, were a championship caliber team. A few breaks go their way and they'd have a title or two during this Nash run.

I think that Jamison would have fit in better with the Suns than Shaq will. Shaq might get a third wind, but at his age, and the injuries/weight problems, etc, he'll be the most expensive decoy in the league.

Great move by Riley IMO.

[nate33]

I agree this move has risks for the Suns, but can they really just stand pat? What's the point of being second or third best if you feel like you're always a length behind the true contenders (which is pretty much the story of the Suns)? I'd do this trade, just to change the equation and see if I can beat those Spurs and Lakers this year. That's the real championship game anyhow.

Phoenix was a stupid suspension away from winning a title last year. If they didn't have to play Game 6 without Stoudamire and Diaw, they'd have beaten the Spurs. There was no need to make a major change.

If anything, they should have added a cheap big man like Adonal Foyle when they had the chance. This Shaq trade will backfire and cost them a ton of money in the process.

[jmrosenth]

btw - the West right now.

Contenders: Spurs, Mavs, Suns (shaq or no shaq), and Lakers

Better than all but Detroit in the East: Utah, New Orleans

And oh yea: Denver, Houston, Golden State

and of course, The Future: Portland

Yea, this isn't anything new. The West has been the dominant conference for most of the last decade, but has the disparity ever been wider?

[Soup's Uncle]

For god sakes the Wizards need to make a trade...we are hemorraging and tired...trade Songaila for someone please!