Shaq traded to Phx; Marion, banks to Miami

[Cracked Fingers]

Yeah I think Phoenix is stupid. First of all, Marion was the reason they were so damn good. Seriously. No disrespect to Bell, but he was their best perimeter defender. He had the length and quickness to give superstars problems. Now? Kobe, Lebron, Carmelo are going to absolutely light it up in Phoenix.

Second, I think the acquisition of Shaq means fewer possessions for the Phoenix Suns. You know Marion could get down the floor in 3-5 seconds and score well in transition. You know Marion could hit a 3 trailing the play. That's gone now.

Just from a system standpoint, how do you trade a guy that thrives in your system to a guy who has NEVER played in such a system?

It isn't just the defense on the interior where Phoenix is going to suffer. Shaq is notoriously lazy. Have you ever seen him on a screen a roll defense? He's TERRIBLE. SAS, LAL are going to have a field day bringing Shaq out to the perimeter and then using Shaq's laziness to create easy opportunities.

Also I think Marion gets more rebounds. So not only do you lose perimeter shooting, but you're still not going to be able to outboard SAS, LAL. It just ain't happening. Who besides Nash and Barbosa can be a constant threat beyond the arc?

Oh and this is going to be disastrous for Nash. I'm telling you. His assist numbers are about to dip.

No disrespect to Phoenix, but I really think you're done in the first round this season. Hollinger and I agree for once. This is a gamble that won't pay off.

It is not just SAS and LAL. You have Utah with Deron and Okur, New Orleans with Paul and Chandler, Golden State with Baron and Biedrins. PHX will be pick and rolled to death.

Sure they still have Amare guarding the rim in that siuation but then they are leaving Gasol, Harrington, Boozer, and West WIDE OPEN while Amare is having to cover the basket.

[PaKwAn]

Watch out for Shaq taking 3 point shots...

[CB4MiamiHeat]

From the Suns board:
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This guy has been on the money so far. Oh crap...

dammit man.. i was so happy and considered it done.

[srt4b]

Pound it to Shaq in the 1st & 3rd to get the opponents in foul trouble then run & gun in the 2ns & 4th.

Shaq doesn't finish games anymore, he starts them. He can be very effective the first 8-12 minutes & after 1/2 time.

[Cracked Fingers]

I'm sick of hearing about steve nash. The guy just isn't a winner. First you give him Dirk and he sucks. Then you give him the most talented team in the league and he doesn't even get to the finals in 3 years. Now he needs Shaq?

And I gurantee you, if things go south, Suns fans and the media will blame Kerr instead of looking to what created such a desperation move in the first place (although, I think, they had a decent shot with some luck if they would've just stuck with Marion).

Dirk and a prime Finley.

We have seen Nash on half court teams before. He didn't become a MVP candidate until he got in D'antoni's break neck offense.

You slow the game down and Nash starts getting exposed by the more athletic PG's in the league.

[Cracked Fingers]

A motivated, re-energized Shaq is a dangerous player.

This Shaq is the Toronto version of Hakeem Olajuwan.

[Harry Heinous]

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This Shaq is the Toronto version of Hakeem Olajuwan.

We shall see. I've seen Shaq play some great games THIS year. He's all about his legacy, and now he'll most likely have a great shot of adding to it.

[enigmatics]

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Dude seriously, an aging Kareem was MUCH MUCH faster then an aging shaq. Im also aware that it doesn't take 5 guys to run the fast break, but why trade a guy who fits your system for a guy who doesnt? And I keep seeing this stuff about shaq being a force down low and "cleaning up the boards" but Marion is averaging more rebounds and has numbers just as good, if not better then, Shaq's down low. I also understand how Marion can't gaurd the bigs in the west, but Shaq hasn't exactly done a great job of gaurding opposing bigs this season either, and he plays in the east.

Not gonna buy your exaggerations. Ex-Laker Michael Thompson KLAC this afternoon even said the situation would be similar to Kareem with the Showtime Lakers. Saying Kareem is faster than Shaq is arguing semantics - Kareem was never a gazelle that's for sure.

Marion fits our system sure..........but he doesn't help our system win a championship. Times change......systems change and get versatile. The Suns effectively do this if Shaq become motivated again.

[tsherkin]

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This Shaq is the Toronto version of Hakeem Olajuwan.

Hakeem was actually pretty helpful when he was on the court and Shaq doesn't have a degenerative back condition.

[enigmatics]

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It is not just SAS and LAL. You have Utah with Deron and Okur, New Orleans with Paul and Chandler, Golden State with Baron and Biedrins. PHX will be pick and rolled to death.

Sure they still have Amare guarding the rim in that siuation but then they are leaving Gasol, Harrington, Boozer, and West WIDE OPEN while Amare is having to cover the basket.

You think Shaq's going to guard the perimeter bigs?

That'll be Amare's job. And please, since when have any of those teams besides Utah been known for their pick-and-roll prowess? Give me a break.

[BirdmanSO]

Enjoy analysis and hype from one of the most ill-conceived trades in NBA History. Poor Steve Nash!!! Marion is a force of nature... Shaq is not the solution IMO

Shaq for Marion trade broken down by Phoenix guy Paul Coro
http://www.redlasso.com/ClipPlayer.aspx ... 67c0a4cfc8

2pm - Mike & Mike break down the latest in blockbuster Shaq for Marion trade
http://www.redlasso.com/ClipPlayer.aspx ... 8a166816e6

[Ballings7]

They are gonna create fits for teams in the half court - Shaq has never had this quality of three point shooting around him before.

Woah, hold on there...

NVE, Horry, Fisher, Fox, Lue, Rice, Shaw, George, Hunter, Rush > Nash, Barbosa, Bell

Posey, Kapono, E. Jones, D. Jones, Walker, Dooling (37 percent in playoffs), R. Butler, Williams > Nash, Barbosa, Bell

He's had several shooters at multiple positions through-out his career. Also considering, aside from Nash, a bunch of the guys he's had before are more proven shooters.

This same team(add thomas, minus hill) made the wcf that OUTPLAYED the spurs & should have won.

What is with all this "suns had no chance of winning anyways" talk? You take out sterns unjustly suspension & 1-sided officiating... The suns win the title last year.

How did the Suns outplay the Spurs, when the Spurs won the series? What, is it that stat where the Suns outscored the Spurs for the series? That doesn't mean much, and clearly, the blow-out in G2 made that stat

Also, if Phoenix should of won the series, then they would of. They clearly were not as good a team as the Spurs. This has only been proven moreso since that series. I don't remember reading "The Suns should win this series" before the series - it's just frustration over the Suns losing.

They had to win eight more games to win the title. As well as somehow do that with the defense and rebounding not being solid, and the offense not being diverse. They would of had to go through the Spurs and the Jazz to get to face Cleveland.

Can't just overlook Utah, they actually would of matched up well with Phoenix, and at least gave them a tough series. I personally would of picked Utah to win because of their coaching, bench, size, rebounding, versatile offense advantages. They were not (and aren't) an inferior team to the Suns, or be some easy series for them. Deron Williams and Boozer and Okur and AK47 (who played steadily better after the crying incident in G1 Rockets) would of had good series against the Suns defense. Boozer and Deron especially. Then you have the support players in Millsap, Fisher, Harpring. That's a hell of a lot of size, toughness, and flexibility for the Suns.

Bell and Amare/Diaw doing what they did, forced Stern and Jackson into the picture. They didn't have to display their intent and go away from the bench area. None of the Spurs did during the schmozz, just was Horry. It may be a natural reaction, but this isn't at a bar or on a sidewalk. Especially considering with some of the past brawls and altercations, that they'd be strict.

Also, if Bell doesn't get in Horry's face (after Horry walked away from Nash), there's less going on, and maybe Amare/Diaw stay back. Because Nash started to leap up when Bell got into it with Horry. As after Horry walked away from Nash, for like, 3-5 seconds, there was nothing going on till Bell got in Horry's face. All on the video.

[Triangle Theory]

Enjoy analysis and hype from one of the most ill-conceived trades in NBA History. Poor Steve Nash!!! Marion is a force of nature... Shaq is not the solution IMO

Shaq for Marion trade broken down by Phoenix guy Paul Coro
http://www.redlasso.com/ClipPlayer.aspx ... 67c0a4cfc8

2pm - Mike & Mike break down the latest in blockbuster Shaq for Marion trade
http://www.redlasso.com/ClipPlayer.aspx ... 8a166816e6

I agree Birdman. I'm still scratching my head.?

[Derekman]

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You think Shaq's going to guard the perimeter bigs?

That'll be Amare's job. And please, since when have any of those teams besides Utah been known for their pick-and-roll prowess? Give me a break.

it doesnt matter if they don't normally it's that now you have shaq, and coaches like Sloan,popovich,nelly and P.J are going to exploit his weaknesses, one of them being his pick and roll defense. And to the Amare guarding the better big, how's that gone so far this year. Seriously, this was just a panic move due to Lakers getting gasol.

[Flash3]

Will Shaq respect D'Antoni?

Riley and PJ were proven winners, D'Antoni has won nothing of worth in this league, at all.

[tsherkin]

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You think Shaq's going to guard the perimeter bigs?

That'll be Amare's job. And please, since when have any of those teams besides Utah been known for their pick-and-roll prowess? Give me a break.

Actually, at least in the context of pick-and-rolls, you'd want to watch out for Toronto, since it's their primary method of offensive attack besides the Bosh iso and they're exceptional at it because of the caliber of their shooters and how well the guards (particularly Ford and Calderon) are able to get to the rim around the screen and the overall floor spacing they have because of their shooting prowess at all five spots. And we don't even have Garbo in our lineup. But remember, 5 guys on the roster are shooting 40% or better from downtown, two of them over 48%. You don't really want to screw with Toronto when they throw pick-and-rolls at you.

You can beat them if you can outscore them, sure, or if their shot isn't falling (and we certainly rely on jumpers aside from Bosh) and we're a weak rebounding team who offers only passable defensive resistance but you really, really don't want to be on the brunt of Toronto's attack on a night when their shots are falling because they'll pick/pop you to death. Witness the lead of 20+ points they opened up in the first quarter Monday night (granted, it was Miami) and the couple of nights they've had this season shooting 70%+ from three.

Who else? Boston, with Ray/Garnett, Pierce/Garnett, even Posey or House/Garnett. Cleveland does it pretty well with Lebron/Gibson from time to time, but isn't known for it, per se. Dallas certainly uses it very effectively and always has, Dirk is a monster on the pick/pop. Detroit uses it effectively.

I mean, like 70% of all NBA sets involve the screen-and-roll or something ridiculous like that but in particular, Dallas, Detroit, Toronto, Houston, New Orleans, Utah and San Antonio do it all.

Probably the most notable of those are Dallas, Toronto, Utah and San Antonio, though.

There are a lot of teams who work that play well and as pertaining to Phoenix... Utah, San Antonio and Dallas are of particular concern.

[Triangle Theory]

Will Shaq respect D'Antoni?

Riley and PJ were proven winners, D'Antoni has won nothing of worth in this league, at all.

Just saw Jay Mariotti touch on that. Good Q.

[tsherkin]

Will Shaq respect D'Antoni?

Riley and PJ were proven winners, D'Antoni has won nothing of worth in this league, at all.

But he IS the greatest point guard in the history of the Euroleague and he did take the Suns to consecutive WCFs and three straight seasons in the second round... and in each case, they were knocked out by the team that repped the West in the Finals... and twice, they lost to the eventual champion San Antonio Spurs (and the year they lost to Dallas, the Mavs beat the Spurs), so it's not like they were getting nowhere, they were in significant contention for a Finals berth and would have rolled their EC competition.

[celticfan42487]

As a Suns fan I'm not really worried about it offensively. In the regular season Marion got a lot more easy fastbreak points than he did in the postseason, because teams get back better. With Amare's jump shot being very good this season (47.1% on jump shots according to 82games.com), as well as his ability to finish down the lane, Amare's defender is not going to be able to double Shaq. Nor will those guarding Bell, Barbosa, or Nash because they'll knock down threes.

And rebounding wise the Suns will improve, period. I've watched this team enough to know that whenever Amare plays PF, they're a pretty decent rebounding team. Marion never boxed out and just went after loose balls, so other teams would get a lot of putbacks. Also, I expect Shaq to be able to get more offensive rebounds than Marion can.

Defensively is where it is going to be a problem. I know the Suns will be improved at defensive rebounding, Shaq's big body will help to keep those crashing off the boards. But there's really only one good perimeter defender in Bell now. Nash is bad, Barbosa is below average (although he's better than a couple years ago), and Hill can't really guard quick players. Strawberry can really, really defend but I don't know how much time he will get unless his shot improves.

I can really see Sam being bought out and coming here to play backup point now. Wow would the Suns be old as hell.

KG was eating dinner with Sam I am before the Celts Clips match. And BOS would throw a monkey wrench into that plan. Sam played his best years with KG or Ray Allen. He'd have an opportunity to do so again but with both of them and as a starter type responsibility. So I think BOS would have the advantage in that scenerio... although after the past 2 weeks I don't even know why people try to think anymore

[Ballings7]

they were in significant contention for a Finals berth and would have rolled their EC competition.

Detroit would of took care of Phoenix in 5 games in 2005. edit: Won, anyway. Also considering that's the worst defensive team the Suns have had in the Nash/D'Antoni era (not like the others since have been significantly better, either).

Also I don't think they would of beat Miami in 2006. Miami was balanced, deeper, tougher, and more experienced. Wade and Shaq and Haslem would have even bigger series than against Dallas. They wouldn't of been able to run a lot with Riley, Shaq, and Wade dictating the tempo. The Suns were very small, too, and Bell was playing hurt.