Warriors best defensive guard?

[turk3d]

It seems that a number of people seem to think that Monta Ellis (who I think is currently our best all around player) is "lousy" defenisvely but if that's so I ask at the guard spotwho is better? I'm not including Stephen Jackson (since he's playing almost exclusively at 3 and 4). I'll include Pietrus just for the heck of it even though he's playing mostly 3 and 4 (If you feel that Pietrus shouldn't be included at the 2, then don't select him either).

[Sleepy51]

Wow . . . we have some s defenders in the backcourt. +1 prop to Nellie for figuring out a way to get defensive stops with this crew of muttonheads.

[BROWN]

BD....

[-bob-]

Duhon, Roger Mason, and Stevenson have really exposed us recently. we should trade a couple of 2nds to the CLips for Quinton Ross.

[Sid the Squid]

Baron on roller skates and in *tight tights* is a tougher defender than Azubuike.

[Twinkie defense]

Where's the "Stephen Jackson" option?

[The_Believer]

Stephen Jackson by a landslide is our best defensive player (although Baron can be just as tough sometimes). He's a guard and guards 2s and 3s, so why isn't he an option?

[FNQ]

When's the last time Jax guarded a 2?

[FNQ]

If we're talking all-around @ the guard spot, I'd rank it

1) BD
2) Tay
3) Pietrus

Neither of the rest play D at all.. Davis is our best all around defender for the guard spot... Tay is very close to him though, but he can't bowl through screens like Baron can... Tay has the quickness advantage.. MP's physical abilities go to waste for us at the 2 spot, which is why he never plays there...

[Twinkie defense]

Jax guards 2s not infrequently. Wasn't he even on Chris Paul recently?

[FNQ]

So then Baron or Tay is on the 3? You guys are thinking of switches... Jax rarely guards any 2s, Baron and Tay are usually on the court at all times, and when one is out, another small guard (Buke) usually takes that spot and guards SG...

[Abyss Impact]

Pietrus. Hes a lock down defender.

[FNQ]

Pietrus. Hes a lock down defender.

At the guard spot?

[Sid the Squid]

Ellis = best offensive gaurd

Davis = best defensive gaurd

Jackson= a forward..how the f do you not know that?

[The_Believer]

Pietrus. Hes a lock down defender.

If he were, we'd probably be 25 games above .500 or more. Usually, he ends up fouling his man more than guarding him.

[Sleepy51]

Pietrus. Hes a lock down defender.

I love this character you're doing. The whole "completely wrong man" thing! It's awesome.

It's like we have our own George Costanza here on the board.

[floppymoose]

This is the easiest non-intentional-joke poll I've ever seen on the forum.

[turk3d]

Truth is, Baron does not defend most other guards that well. Maybe you could say he is the "best" when he wants to be, however there's a number of guys he just can't guard. Oh yes, he can guard certain guards in spurts, but not on a consistent basis. I've noticed that Nellie plays Baron a lot against forwards lately, because I guess he realizes Baron's deficiencies against guys who are smaller and quicker.

Pietrus and Jack do not really play too many guards (although I realize they can wind up playing them on switches in certain instances in Nellie's defensive scheme).

Here's guys who I have seen Baron have difficulty against:

Devan Harris (Baron cannot keep up with him)
Chris Paul (didn't see the last game Baron played against him, but know that Paul outscored and I believe out assisted him)
Tony Parker (maybe Monta's toughest cover)
Deron Williams (Baron plays him about even but I'd give Williams the edge)
Kevin Martin (we know what Monta did to him)
TJ Ford (another guy who's quick for Baron)
Chris Duhon (had the most prolific day of his career against Baron)
Rafer Alston (really did well against Baron last time they played)
Jamal Tinsley
Raymond Felton (thought he payed pretty well against him when they played last)
Leandro Barbosa (covered by Monta, too fast for Baron)
Mike Bibby (lit him up just the other day)
Andre Miller (always seems to play well against Baron)

I'm not sure how Baron has played against Jose Calderon, but I would imagine he would trouble against him too. I probably missed a few others. Most of these guys cannot stop Baron on offensively (he's able to post them up due to his strength) but this does not take away from his inability to guard them either.

We are misled by Baron somewhat due to his ability (when not tired or injured) to lock guys down during crunch time (sometimes) and his close to league leading steals but this is somewhat deceptive. He's great on help defense (one of the best in the league) some of which is due to his cheating (which leads to steals). Another area where he shines is in guarding guys bigger than him (such as Kobe, Carmelo and even Lebron at times) none of which Monta is capable of but again in spurts.

Overall, I think that Monta is more consistent defensively but the purpose of this poll is because of those who say that Monta is so bad defensively. Well, at the very least he would be no worse than second to Baron since Jack and Pietrus are not really playing much guard for us. As floppy said (and I believe Sleepy may have intimated), it's amazing how so many think Pietrus is such a "great" defender now, after all they've been saying about him all season.

The bottom line is that Pietrus is a "good" defender with the potential to be "very good" some day. Monta although young and inexperienced, is already above average defensively and if not the best, is the second best defensive guard on this team and I say most definitely our best defender against guys like the Harris'es, the Parker's, the Paul's, and the Williams'es right at this moment.

Please feel free to comment on my above assessments as you may have additional insights into this. Also, please add any additional players with your comments which you might feel are pertinent. I am going strictly on memory only and have not reviewed any of the head to head statistics on these guys but generally feel I am correct.

[rone415]

[quote="turk3d"]
Here's guys who I have seen Baron have difficulty against:

Devan Harris (Baron cannot keep up with him).
Chris Paul (didn't see the last game Baron played against him, but know that Paul outscored and I believe out assisted him) But who won the game? who cares if he had better numbers. Good/great players will get theres nightly.
Tony Parker (maybe Monta's toughest cover)
Deron Williams (Baron plays him about even but I'd give Williams the edge) Great young player, who gives just about everyone trouble. I'd like to see what/if Monta can do any better.
Kevin Martin (we know what Monta did to him) Don't tell me you think Monta played great D on him that night? Martin had an off night and was on a back to back. I guess no excuses, to have a bad night so Monta played great D
TJ Ford (another guy who's quick for Baron)
Chris Duhon (had the most prolific day of his career against Baron) Are you sure? http://www.ibabuzz.com/warriors/2008/02 ... ris-duhon/Rafer Alston (really did well against Baron last time they played) For what a quarter?Jamal Tinsley
Raymond Felton (thought he payed pretty well against him when they played last) U gotta be kindin me right? You know we won this game by 30 right?
Leandro Barbosa (covered by Monta, too fast for Baron)
Mike Bibby (lit him up just the other day) Ok, I'll give you this one.
Andre Miller (always seems to play well against Baron) ?????

We are misled by Baron somewhat due to his ability (when not tired or injured) to lock guys down during crunch time (sometimes) and his close to league leading steals but this is somewhat deceptive. He's great on help defense (one of the best in the league) some of which is due to his cheating (which leads to steals). Another area where he shines is in guarding guys bigger than him (such as Kobe, Carmelo and even Lebron at times) none of which Monta is capable of but again in spurts.

Overall, I think that Monta is more consistent defensively but the purpose of this poll is because of those who say that Monta is so bad defensively. Well, at the very least he would be no worse than second to Baron since Jack and Pietrus are not really playing much guard for us. As floppy said (and I believe Sleepy may have intimated), it's amazing how so many think Pietrus is such a "great" defender now, after all they've been saying about him all season. All I have to say is watch Monta more closely on defense. When Nick Young, Bino, Mason, Duhon goes off on you somethings wrong. If you tivo the games, just watch Monta's defense and you'll start to notice he's terrible on defense. Ok terrible is being harsh, lets just say bad.

The bottom line is that Pietrus is a "good" defender with the potential to be "very good" some day. Monta although young and inexperienced, is already above average defensively and if not the best, is the second best defensive guard on this team and I say most definitely our best defender against guys like the Harris'es, the Parker's, the Paul's, and the Williams'es right at this moment. Above average defender WOW. Are you sure you didn't mean above average offensively? Our next game is Utah right. Ok, lets see who Monta starts on. Ill bet any money he starts on Brewer. Why cause Nellie knows BD matches up better and Deron will eat up Monta. Of course Monta would be second best. What other guard is getting significant minutes right now?
I recommend you watch Monta more closely on defense. Tivo a few games and you'll sit a watch. Dont let Monta's offense blind you
quote][/b]

[floppymoose]

Truth is, Baron does not defend most other guards that well.

He's defended the other team that well. That's what really matters. Don Nelson's defense isn't about having each player stop one guy.