Money real reason no trade made

[EasternMagic]

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No there is evidence. You just have to follow what happened in Seattle. Rashard Lewis agent said he was taking the first max offer. The reality is there was only 1 team under the cap capable of giving Rashard the max. Rashard agent even let it known that he was going to Orlando first and was expecting a max offer.

Reality was that the 3 other teams under the cap Milwaukee, Charlotte, Memphis had zero interest in Rashard. There other teams interested were well over the cap meaning they couldn't offer more than 25% increase or he would become BYC. It doesn't take a rocket scientist to see there no other team that can make him this offer then. That the max offer was made because Otis and the Magic knew that they were guaranteed to get Rashard if they handed him the max. Otis was played by an agent to get the guaranteed signing.

As magnnio would say can i see your proof on ink that none of those teams wanted him.

[N4U|Redux]

Reality was that the 3 other teams under the cap Milwaukee, Charlotte, Memphis had zero interest in Rashard. There other teams interested were well over the cap meaning they couldn't offer more than 25% increase or he would become BYC. It doesn't take a rocket scientist to see there no other team that can make him this offer then. That the max offer was made because Otis and the Magic knew that they were guaranteed to get Rashard if they handed him the max. Otis was played by an agent to get the guaranteed signing.

I'd love to see anyone muster up a refute to this that actually makes any sense.

[lovehoops01]

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There other teams interested were well over the cap meaning they couldn't offer more than 25% increase or he would become BYC. It doesn't take a rocket scientist to see there no other team that can make him this offer then. That the max offer was made because Otis and the Magic knew that they were guaranteed to get Rashard if they handed him the max. Otis was played by an agent to get the guaranteed signing.

What? Seattle signed and traded him to Orlando. What would have been the difference if the Sonics had signed and traded him to another team? The other team (not Sonics) might have had to send out more contracts than the Magic -- but if they were expiring contracts or they added draft picks, a deal still could have gotten done. No the Sonics wouldn't have gotten equal dollars back for Rashard, but they weren't looking for equal contracts. They are looking to clear cap space.

[EasternMagic]

Eastermagic, Spinedoc, lovehoops

I feel your pain. Its pretty hard to have the whole board come to see what I've said about Otis. it enrages you no end so be my guest and try to take all kinds of various potshots at who and what I am to make you feel better. I dont have to argue it anymore. the consensus is not with you.

im not enraged at all im having fun, no pot shots would be taken at you if you could argue without being a sarcastic jerk, if you want to prove me wrong you dont have to take shots at me and everyone else on this thread to do it

[EasternMagic]

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What? Seattle signed and traded him to Orlando. What would have been the difference if the Sonics had signed and traded him to another team? The other team (not Sonics) might have had to send out more contracts than the Magic -- but if they were expiring contracts or they added draft picks, a deal still could have gotten done. No the Sonics wouldn't have gotten equal dollars back for Rashard, but they weren't looking for equal contracts. They are looking to clear cap space.

N4U i think lovehoops did the job here

[N4U|Redux]

Decent refutes guys.

Shows that this is just an opinion after all. Unless richboy has equally good comebacks.

[lovehoops01]

Eastermagic, Spinedoc, lovehoops

I feel your pain. Its pretty hard to have the whole board come to see what I've said about Otis. it enrages you no end so be my guest and try to take all kinds of various potshots at who and what I am to make you feel better. I dont have to argue it anymore. the consensus is not with you.

See, Magic fans. He is flaunting his desire to get you to hate the people related to your team. It's what brings him joy in life.

[richboy]

As magnnio would say can i see your proof on ink that none of those teams wanted him.

Really the Cats the only one under the cap that could offer the max. The Bucks could have if they renounced all there players and got rid of the pick that turned out to be Yi. If you want to believe there a chance the Cats who are as frugal a franchise as there is was going to pay Rashard twice as much as Gerald Wallace or more than they offered Wallace and Okafor combined. That the Bucks would let Yi go and sign Rashard to 20 per when they just signed Simmons to a huge deal at SF. Then what can I say.

Not to mention Rashard side has never even mentioned those teams. Instead the only discussion about these other offers are Cleveland and Hosuton. Two teams well over the cap.

[EasternMagic]

Decent refutes guys.

Shows that this is just an opinion after all. Unless richboy has equally good comebacks.

i think we can all agree on that, there is no way to tell what couldve been, i wont take credit for that refute though that was all lovehoops, i feel kind of dumb i didnt think of that though.

[EasternMagic]

As magnnio would say can i see your proof on ink that none of those teams wanted him.

Really the Cats the only one under the cap that could offer the max. The Bucks could have if they renounced all there players and got rid of the pick that turned out to be Yi. If you want to believe there a chance the Cats who are as frugal a franchise as there is was going to pay Rashard twice as much as Gerald Wallace or more than they offered Wallace and Okafor combined. That the Bucks would let Yi go and sign Rashard to 20 per when they just signed Simmons to a huge deal at SF. Then what can I say.

Not to mention Rashard side has never even mentioned those teams. Instead the only discussion about these other offers are Cleveland and Hosuton. Two teams well over the cap.

what about what lovehoops just said about the sign and trade and including picks or expirings in his last post?

[richboy]

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What? Seattle signed and traded him to Orlando. What would have been the difference if the Sonics had signed and traded him to another team? The other team (not Sonics) might have had to send out more contracts than the Magic -- but if they were expiring contracts or they added draft picks, a deal still could have gotten done. No the Sonics wouldn't have gotten equal dollars back for Rashard, but they weren't looking for equal contracts. They are looking to clear cap space.

The Magic were under the cap. Meaning his BYC had no effect. Seattle didn't have to take back salary for Rashard. If Houston had tried to do a max deal with Seattle for a sign and trade they would have had to send Seattle around 10 million in contracts and then send another few million in deals to a team under the cap for nothing. Meaning Charlotte, Memphis, Milwaukee would have to give up there cap space and take on a player for nothing. Almost impossible to do a 3 way deal for that kind of raise when your over the cap.

[lovehoops01]

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These people arent Magic fans then, they're likely masked fans of other teams. That or you're being too critical of these negative fans.

I'm offering my perspective as a "negative" poster that in the past my posts were filled with the material they were because I was/am increasingly frustrated by the team. Not because I enjoyed the fact that we were sucking and not making progress.

When I think about the idiot Weisbrod-era, it makes me want to post negative things, lol, maybe some people feel that way about the way things are going on now.

Enough psychology.

For what it's worth, I hated Weisbrod, too. From the moment he got the GM job. Even before he pissed off Tracy and then traded him. There just was nothing I could do about that so I had to make the best of it.

I don't think the situation now is the same. And I do think the team has some holes and wish they could have gotten something for Garrity's contract or one of the guards' (because I don't think all of the guys with expiring deals will be back). But I also know that just because a rumor was written about the possbility of something happening doesn't mean that there actually was an opportunity for the Magic to do a deal. And I thought, except for that Cavs-Bulls-Sonics deal that got done today, a lot of the moves ahead of the trade deadline this year were done between executives that have working relationships from when they worked on the same teams together. And the Suns-Heat deal, the Magic did not have the assets to make a similar move unless they wanted to trade Dwight, which I can't imagine would have made anyone happy.

[N4U|Redux]

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what about what lovehoops just said about the sign and trade and including picks or expirings in his last post?

I think richboy's main argument is the one that makes more sense and cites more precedence than the other argument that you and lovehoops have.

All things equal, either scenario could be true. But, your argument has a whole lot more "what ifs" and "I believe's." Than what richboy is saying.

In the end, neither is concrete enough to be believed as fact, but richboy has presented my own beliefs well enough and is the side I chose before this thread even existed.

You are requesting we go out on a limb about these mysterious teams that would've offered similar benefits to Seattle in a S&T and/or presented Lewis with the same monetary benefits. Richboy has presented mildly good evidence to suggest the other side is true -- his side has a whole lot more credibility to it.

After all, I could be the one who turned Britney into a whore...who knows...but it makes a lot of sense that I didn't. The only way I can get you to believe it is to have you grasp at straws that I did.

[maginno]

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I made no claim of such evidence. Just as you cannot offer evidence to the contrary. And I feel no need to "prove'' anything to you anyway. Do all the name-calling you want.

Then don't interject in what you can't comprehend and maintian any semblance of sensibility. thats what my issue was with easternmagic. He claimed to have evidence that other teams were offering the max. Your side always tends to come up with these forced imaginary excuses for Otis sans any vestige of evidence. No such evidence exists.

We according to multiple reports offered the max to shard up front on the very first day of free agency. that can be proven no matter what nonsense you spout about having no proof. If in fact you offered the player on day one the max and no one else got in a bid I need no other evidence. In abscence of any proof to the contrary there was no team that got in and made an offer for the max.

All we have here is running away and potshots and who is really a fan and who is here to stir up things or is the same person posting with different names various conspircay theories yada yada yada. Anything to save face that Easternmagic has no proof whatsoever that any other team offered Shard the max and to save face that in fact those of us who don't like the job Otis has done have yet another legitimate point against him.

Again I feel your pain - the Hate otis thread is now several pages long and I have one post in it which basically just says ditto to what is being said there. Your problems hardly begin or end with me.

[lovehoops01]

I'll interject anywhere I want.

Unlike you, though, I have more to talk about than just how crappy the Magic is as an organization. Congratulations, though, you have succeeded in shutting down almost all other conversation on this board, which is hard to do.

[EasternMagic]

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Then don't interject in what you can't comprehend and maintian any semblance of sensibility. thats what my issue was with easternmagic. He claimed to have evidence that other teams were offering the max. Your side always tends to come up with these forced imaginary excuses for Otis sans any vestige of evidence. No such evidence exists.

We according to multiple reports offered the max to shard up front on the very first day of free agency. that can be proven no matter what nonsense you spout about having no proof. If in fact you offered the player on day one the max and no one else got in a bid I need no other evidence. In abscence of any proof to the contrary there was no team that got in and made an offer for the max.

All we have here is running away and potshots and who is really a fan and who is here to stir up things or is the same person posting with different names various conspircay theories yada yada yada. Anything to save face that Easternmagic has no proof whatsoever that any other team offered Shard the max and to save face that in fact those of us who don't like the job Otis has done have yet another legitimate point against him.

Again I feel your pain - the Hate otis thread is now several pages long and I have one post in it which basically just says ditto to what is being said there. Your problems hardly begin or end with me.

you still fail to admit that your part cannot be proven either. even though we signed him early doesnt mean that there werent talks about who was to acquire him before we signed him, its not like his free agency was a secret. Huston had over ten million in expirings they couldve shipped off if they wanted to, of meaningless players like ours, charlotte also had over 10 mill in expirings and a little more to go around but they focused in on wallace, and there are other teams that had more expirings they couldve dished off with draft pics to seattle. the bottom line is otis knew we needed him to complete our roster (remember this is before battie was hurt and befor anyone thought hedo could be good) and with him on our roster the rest of our team has improved drastically this season. The acqusition of SVG and Rashard this year has mad our team a hell of a lot better than what it couldve been. and what problems are you talking about you right they dont start or end with you cause you are to small to be considered a problem. not being rude just saying this argument is not a problem in my life. and the more sarcastic and insulting you are the more you prove lovehoops right about yourself

[maginno]

You are requesting we go out on a limb about these mysterious teams that would've offered similar benefits to Seattle in a S&T and/or presented Lewis with the same monetary benefits. Richboy has presented mildly good evidence to suggest the other side is true -- his side has a whole lot more credibility to it.

Well beyond that you have to look at the timing of the agreement to pay the max. If you recall we met with rashard the very first day of official free agency and all sides have reported that an agreement for the max was reached then. There isn't even time for another team to have driven up the price on Shard since the rules of free agency forbid teams from making offers before the signing period begins. it simply makes no sense to claim other teams would have offered what in fact they never got to offer. its just pure imagination.

We locked in on Shard and didn't care about any thing else or anyone else. I think it was Wallace that was scheduled for the next day or two and his trip was cancelled.

For the record I am not here to stir up anything. I am a magic fan in Miami that after seeing my Heat friends rub it in that they got a championship first would love to see the Magic make progress toward their own championship. I don't believe that will happen with Otis. Last year he was saying the same thing about staying the course liking the young players including Darko and Ariza. That was his plan and then they were gone. Now his plan sees us going into the playoffs with Shard as our PF. Makes no sense and the Otis supporters are really upset now because the rest of the board now agrees with that assessment.

[maginno]

I'll interject anywhere I want.

as will I however I will attempt to comprehend what I am interjecting into. SO live with my posts. I'm violating no rules and I certainly am not making judgements about your status as a fan

[EasternMagic]

Your making more sense now that your posts are calming down a bit, but what im saying is that his free agency was not a big secrecy. I think thats why we gave him the big deal so quickly. other teams knew about it and WERE capable of doing it, but not doing it like we did. Otis new noone could offer as much as we could and that was the whole point of having that much cap space in the summer. I seriously think otis saw how rashards could open things up for everyone else thats why it happened so big and so quickly, and aside from the streak where lewis' neck was screwed up he has played a HUGE role in why we are doing this good this year. Could we have signed him for lower amounts? IDK probably but the goal was to hook him 100% and not let him get away and if battie hadnt gotten hurt i think this deal looks even better.

That sux for you in miami, but im sure you have some strong arguments for them this season and as for darko and ariza i liked them both and was sad to see ariza go, but i think everyone on this board can agree we are a better team without them.

[maginno]

and the more sarcastic and insulting you are the more you prove lovehoops right about yourself

Eastermagic how can you in all good conscience make such a claim when you started the insults and the "whats his face" comments merely by me pointing out that you have no evidence to support a claim that other teams made any offers of the max to rashard? You have zero moral high ground

You both are simply sore at the point of view and the day that I worry about the opinions of someone who starts insulting me because he doesn't like me pointing out a lack of evidence will be a cold day in Hades .

especially when they write nonsense like this

"See, Magic fans. He is flaunting his desire to get you to hate the people related to your team. It's what brings him joy in life."


I do not hate Otis. I am on record in these forums stating he seems like a cool guy that you'd love to have over for a barbecue. I like MANY others don't believe he's a good GM. If thats hating then bring back Brian HIll because you all were "getting others to hate the people related to your team" and dissing Brian was "what brought joy to your collective lives".

Silliness. Most of us didn't hate Brian either just didn't like the job he was doing. Have a problem with people questioning your GM. too bad. the name of the forums is realGm. Its part of what this board is about. its not your personal rah rah club.

No matter what you claim ......I am a Magic fan and I approve this message.