Why Kurt Thomas Deal Fell Thru/Battie Update (Denton)

[TheGlyde]

I'm pretty sure if I was working with a GM of another team, and he was making untrue claims about what I was asking for in a trade, I'd want to a) know about it and b) call him out for it... but as i said, maybe it's just me.

[mhectorgato]

This fanbase argues an awful lot, for it being the best season in a decade.

We certainly are a cantankerous bunch.

[mhectorgato]

I'm pretty sure if I was working with a GM of another team, and he was making untrue claims about what I was asking for in a trade, I'd want to a) know about it and b) call him out for it... but as i said, maybe it's just me.

Not just you.

[Last Guardian]

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We certainly are a cantankerous bunch.

Yes, quite irascible and petulant.

[maginno]

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Yes, quite irascible and petulant.

Okay, I give you your props for thesaurus usage.

[mhectorgato]

Okay, I give you your props for thesaurus usage.

Now ... is this what "they" call a backhanded compliment?

[theTHIEF]

name calling? man...

Dorothy's? head for the hills because here comes a tornado...thats a Dorothy...it's a term...i want to think that i am far more mature than I am being given credit for...

but...good job with all your typing...both you an the omniscient maginno...

the only thing that even strikes a chord with me, is the bandwagon remark...i dont know how long you have followed the magic, and that's not really in question here...but I have followed them since 1991, i have been a season ticket holder since 1992, i have been featured at the games as a long time member of the support club "boosters", i have magic everything in my house...i'm a magic fanatic...i am even guilty have letting the magic effect my attitude in the past...not so much in the last 6 years or so...but im just saying...im a true magic fan...so i don't know where you drew that conclusion from...but it's a total falsity...

i dont understand how we have to either be a total 100% supporter of Otis, or we have to hate him...why can't there be others like me who hope and pray he is doing right by the team, even if he stumbles?

i've said it a million times now, he has screwed up...but what do we gain by driving him into the ground for it? he's not going anywhere anytime soon...

i said the other day, of all of the things he has done, i was upset about the deadline...i have been right there with him giving him the benefit of the doubt, because again we dont know how things work out, sometimes you think you have a deal and then at the 11th hour they change it up, or you change your mind...things happen...and i know for a fact that there was a decent deal on the table from the Blazers, but after looking at it from the financial standpoint, im glad we didn't take it and its nice to know that Otis is sticking with his goal of adding smart pieces with $ in mind...from here on out at least...

i guess when it boils down im a realist, but i'm also a true fan and will be forced to support no matter what...

[mhectorgato]

i dont understand how we have to either be a total 100% supporter of Otis, or we have to hate him...why can't there be others like me who hope and pray he is doing right by the team, even if he stumbles?

i've said it a million times now, he has screwed up...but what do we gain by driving him into the ground for it? he's not going anywhere anytime soon...

...

i guess when it boils down im a realist, but i'm also a true fan and will be forced to support no matter what...

I'm right there with you.

[Last Guardian]

All I care about is results. These guys can continue to spout nonsense about the flaws of our team and the ineptitude of management. These were the same people saying Charlotte and Atlanta would have better records. That the Magic would be fighting for the 8th seed at best but probably finish with 33 wins. Now that we are on pace for 50+ wins, their attitude changes to the predictable "regular season doesn't matter" bull crap. Just trying to cover up their horrible misjudging of the Magic season. Its fine though. They claim they have "higher standards". Oh, well, excuse us. I thought you were the guys who thought the Magic had little to no chance to make the playoffs, while most of us did, yet now you have the higher standards for the team. My how things change.

What it comes down to is, we are the most impressive 36-22 team in history. I mean, we have no starting power forward. Our point guards are awful. We have no starting shooting guard. We have no bench. We have no rebounding or defense aside from 1 player. Management is among the worst in the league. We waste draft after draft. Don't you guys think it is quite impressive to have the record we do?

[mhectorgato]

What it comes down to is, we are the most impressive 36-22 team in history. I mean, we have no starting power forward. Our point guards are awful. We have no starting shooting guard. We have no bench. We have no rebounding or defense aside from 1 player. Management is among the worst in the league. We waste draft after draft. Don't you guys think it is quite impressive to have the record we do?

100% pure unmitigated luck. Our success has nothing to do with our personnel or management.

[theTHIEF]

very true...by the law of averages, a decent season was bound to come along...it's just coincidence...and it wont hurt Mr. Smiths pocketbook any...

[lovehoops01]

Bleh too long of a response by me.

Suffice to say

A) you don't speak for everyone in Orlando, all season tickets or people who attend games. Nice try but I'm not that removed form Orlando to buy that.
There are people on this board andother boards that feel the same way we do and live in Orlando. Some are even season ticjet holder s blowing your point.

B) You did in fact compare fans inside the city as investing and those outside as not. Go back a few pages. denying it is useless.

A). Of course I don't speak for everyone in Orlando or all season ticket holders or people who attend games, and I know some don't agree with my stand. No one can speak for everyone because the opinions are so varied. I have, however, asked a pretty good chunk of people sitting in my section directly over the past week or two if they think Otis is doing a poor job and should be replaced as part of a larger conversation about the direction of the team. Didn't find a single person who said yes. Some said they had hoped the team would have made a trade at the deadline, yes -- as do I, by the way.

B). You take it too literally. I mean that because season-ticket holders are at most of the games, they GENERALLY have spent MORE money and MORE time than most people who do not live here following the team (and they buy merchandise, too). I know this is shocking, but some even travel to the team's games outside of Orlando. They also might watch local sports coverage, buy the league pass, listen and call local radio with coverage on the team -- including the coach's and GM's radio shows. A lot of that is not on the Internet, and it is an additional investment in time and sometimes provides more information than you get in postgame interviews broadcast right after the game. The point is...the team is right here. I'm guessing there are more people living in Orlando who care if the team is doing well than there are people in Washington, for example, who hope the team does well. In fact, I expect most people in Washington, Miami, Atlanta and Charlotte to hope that the team totally sucks because it gives their team a better chance of making the playoffs. Have had plenty of Miami fans tell me that directly.

[maginno]

i dont understand how we have to either be a total 100% supporter of Otis, or we have to hate him...why can't there be others like me who hope and pray he is doing right by the team, even if he stumbles?

well tell that to the BHill supporters cause defenses of him sure weren't being left alone and I agreed - they shouldn't be. Theres an Arroyo thread going right now that spares Arroyo no put down. face the facts you find it annoying to have your defenses shot down but there are players that a great many don't have any problem putting down and its quite okay. NO whining about not supporting the team or hating everything to do with it simple because those are positions that are closer to what you hold.

So what it comes down to is that you just don't like the opinions because if this were an Aroyo thread or a BHill (if he were still here) thread you wouldn't be complaining so much.

Not a matter of hate at all. its the whole thing I got into with Gato a ways back. He would whine about moving on whenever anyone would take apart a defense of the Rashard signing and there would be little complaint when multiple people started new thread just to defend it. Then of course if you replied to the thread you didn't start you were guilty of not letting it rest. basically just trying to have the last word and censor everyone else. I wasn't having it.

So sorry if you post threads in defense of Otis's moves then people have a right to take those arguments and hold them up to light. Call it hating all you want. When I start seeing some respect for Arroyo and Puerto Rican fans on here I can't really see anyone here having the corner on loving all of the Magic.

[theTHIEF]

im not "defending" Otis...i'm saying the same things i have been saying...let's just give him a little more time before we register fireotis.com, because so far, from the outside, we're screaming 4 alarm blaze and we're brely looking at a trash can fire here...

i just get grouped into Otis homers when click submit...

and I hate Arroyo, and I disliked Hill...but deep down, as a fan I still have to swallow it and represent...even if i bash them...i admit when im wrong...but so far i have eaten very little crow on the Arroyo/Hill front...

[maginno]

They also might watch local sports coverage, buy the league pass, listen and call local radio with coverage on the team -- including the coach's and GM's radio shows. A lot of that is not on the Internet, and it is an additional investment in time and sometimes provides more information than you get in postgame interviews broadcast right after the game.

you are still trying to concoct an argument of supremacy based on geography which has no relevance. the kind of information you get locally is personal in nature. little tidbits not anything to do with the strength of the roster, trading partners on a national level or how the team is actually playing. This isn't Mayberry or the 1950s. I can pull up and replay almost any game played around the country, get box scores instantly read the morning gibberish by Schmitz just like you and further more rather than helping you better understand the team some of that local information actually makes you worse at seeing the team. No?

It was almost unanimous to everyone outside of central Florida that College coaches hadn't done well inthe NBA but because of local biases Donovan had to back out for you to wake up.


The overwhelming consensus is that we overpaid for Rashard but who can doubt that again this wasn't Otis feeling he had to make splash for the locals. The whole reason why we have the term "Homer" is because of fans getting so close to a team that they can't see the bigger picture of the team.

So again make the argument based on some facts not on an appeal to superior knowledge based on the osmosis of geography because it is perfectly clear that being in Orlando does not give you an edge in reporting what happened in Seattle. IF anything the local bias is bound to distort not inform.

[lovehoops01]

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you are still trying to concoct an argument of supremacy based on geography which has no relevance. the kind of information you get locally is personal in nature. little tidbits not anything to do with the strength of the roster, trading partners on a national level or how the team is actually playing. This isn't Mayberry or the 1950s.

The only person I read here claiming supremacy is you. My only point was that your view is different from most of the people in Orlando that I have spoken with on the issue. The above comment about Mayberry and the 1950s is unbelievably condescending and just inaccurate. And by the way, you find out quite a bit from Stan Van Gundy when he does an interview, and it's always about basketball, and they are not all available online.

It was almost unanimous to everyone outside of central Florida that College coaches hadn't done well inthe NBA but because of local biases Donovan had to back out for you to wake up.

Don't throw me in this group. I favored Van Gundy all along. But there was indeed a big push in the media here to hire Donovan.

The whole reason why we have the term "Homer" is because of fans getting so close to a team that they can't see the bigger picture of the team.

Last time I looked up the word fan in the dictionary, it said, "A person enthusiastic about a specified sport, pastime or performer; devotee.'' It didn't say, "A person enthusiastic about bashing a specified sport, pastime or performer.''

Somehow, in a warped world of fandom, having something positive to say about someone or something on this team on this board has become twisted to making the poster a "homer.'' To some extent, there are a lot of similarities between "fans'' and "homers'' anyway.

And of what you said about B.Hill and Carlos Arroyo and lack of support for them.....

I made it clear before the Magic ever rehired Brian Hill that I thought that would be a poor decision because of what happened during his previous tenure here so that move never had my support. I wasn't one of those firebrianhill.com people, though -- even though I didn't even like him here the first time he was coach. I believe, however, that was an ownership decision.

And last week, I was in a thread trying to get people to lay off Carlos.
The anonymity of the Internet makes some people too bold, and they go too far with some of the things they say. Carlos has been a good team guy and hasn't rocked the boat.

[spinedoc]

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Oh now were going to the name calling.

Really you sound like Spin and Mhec with that last comment.

In the same post no less. Do I get a free shot at name calling then?, because you do it too often for it to be an honest mistake. How about Man-gina and Bitchboy, the "impressive depressive duo". I've got another one, hypocrite maybe? Sorry, just playing, but I couldn't resist after reading that.

[maginno]

Honestly Lovehoops you have to learn to read before you make accusations. How is saying that we no longer live in towns like Mayberry and that this is not the 1950s condescending to anyone. Do you think we are? good grief read man. The only point was that we don't live in geographical isolation anymore and you take issue with that?

And of course the same tired accusation of bashing the team has to be trotted out. Do you really think it has any affect on my posting? Otis isn't the Magic. No more than Bhill was or grant Hill was. Almost everyone on this board has a player or a coach that they'd prefer to see gone. Just maybe my enthusiasm for the teams potential is why I don't like Otis fooling around with it and impeding it making a real move to contender status.

Once again your attempts to define who is a fan and who isn't are dismissed. Being a season ticket holder gives you the singular authority to sit your rear end in a seat and watch. Nothing more. You don't have any say as to who can and can't be or who is or isn't a magic fan .

[mhectorgato]

In the same post no less. Do I get a free shot at name calling then?, because you do it too often for it to be an honest mistake. How about Man-gina and Bitchboy, the "impressive depressive duo". I've got another one, hypocrite maybe? Sorry, just playing, but I couldn't resist after reading that.

How about Richboy and CassieQueen?

[maginno]

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How about Richboy and CassieQueen?

In a word juvenile. But hardly surprising. but please continue. I have no problem with lurkers seeing how intellectually stimulating you guys can be. It goes a long way in explaining why these arguments rage on because its hardly something you don't do regularly.