ImageImageImageImageImage

PG: We need bosh!

Moderators: Yuri Vaultin, Morris_Shatford, Duffman100, Rhettmatic, Alfred, DG88, Patman, pbj

vc&cb4
Junior
Posts: 427
And1: 0
Joined: Jun 22, 2004
Location: Windsor, Ontario

 

Post#181 » by vc&cb4 » Sat Mar 1, 2008 4:32 am

rdtx2005 wrote:Chalk this one up as one of Jack Ramsey's NBA season:

10 games you have no business losing
10 games you have no business winning
other 62 games make your season


To the posters saying we've used our 10 games...


1. 112-85 Loss to Milwaukee (Nov. 6)
2. 101-97 Loss to Washington (Dec. 1)
3. 123-115 Loss to Seattle (Dec. 21)
4. 99-95 Loss to Philadelphia (Jan. 19)
5. 108-104 Loss to Washington (Jan. 29)
6. 102-98 Loss to L.A Clippers (Feb. 08)
7. 103-99 Loss to New York (Feb. 22)
8. 122-11 Loss to Indianna (Feb.29)

We still got 2 more to go :lol:
positivetension
Starter
Posts: 2,035
And1: 15
Joined: Dec 21, 2006

 

Post#182 » by positivetension » Sat Mar 1, 2008 4:34 am

I love Jose, I like TJ, I hate them on the floor together. Maybe if they played in short bursts together it would have been okay but clearly it doesn't work. Running the two together is a defensive liability so what did Mitchell do? He put Kapono out there with them. Are you freaking kidding me? No wonder we couldn't get a stop. Kapono is also useless unless someone is drawing double teams and getting him open shots which didn't happen.

Bargs looked pretty good tonight. Even though he started only 4-14 I liked his aggressiveness and didn't think he took any awful shots. He might have rushed a few though. I was also happy with his man to man defense, staying in front of people and taking charges but his help defense needs a lot of improvement.

Frustrating game. Coaching was poor and this team is not that good without Bosh.
99 Problems
Banned User
Posts: 8,461
And1: 5
Joined: Mar 07, 2007

 

Post#183 » by 99 Problems » Sat Mar 1, 2008 4:38 am

Disgusting effort by the players, we looked like a D-league team out there tonight.... NOBODY can use the excuse of not having CB4, with the injuries Indy had and the players they trotted out on the floor, not to mention we were at home....

We have no D... everytime we make a stop its basically luck, but any person with two legs can bust down the perimeter D and cause chaos on the rotations... One dribble and we're done, not to mention none of our players can play defense one on one...

If Sam is still around after this season he needs to completely rebuild this defense from the ground up...

Also our offense is too simplistic and easily exposed, and the lack of one on one playmakers aside from TJ is a huge gap we need to address soon...

Games like this are good every once in a while because they show the weaknesses which are hidden on most nights by our wins... And they let our players know they can't get by just by showing up physically..
User avatar
18 Parkerville
Sixth Man
Posts: 1,997
And1: 0
Joined: Nov 10, 2007
Location: Running a 2-on-1 fast break with Jose Calderon

 

Post#184 » by 18 Parkerville » Sat Mar 1, 2008 4:46 am

Horrible Game.

These idiots placing blame solely on TJ: did you actually watch the WHOLE game? He had a horrid 4th and end of the 3rd, but played pretty good in the first half.

-TJ is having problem finishing layups. The fact he's getting the chance at some clean layups is a good sign though, so it's not all bad. They will come around. But he needs to pass more when his shot isn't dropping.

-IMO TJ is too competitive, which overall is a good thing...but it leads him to want to carry the team on his small back when we're playing like shi.t.

Jose "El Matador" Calderon:

-Horrible defence was VERY noticeable tonight. Serious..what are we, 50 something games into the season? What a joke. Yet he yells and screams like he's a leader back there..in reality, half the time he's in no-man's-land, the other half he's clapping behind someone that already beat him easily off the dribble. (tonight it was the scrub travis diener's turn)

-Jose's been playing poorly lately, and it's really starting to hurt us, particularly in the 1st quarter.
IIRC we've been down 10-15 points EVERY GAME FOR FOUR STRAIGHT in the first with jose starting. His play simply isn't getting it done. He looks slow and tired, compounded with his usual poor D. Being down 10-15 points really puts us behind the 8 ball and it takes our offense a while to recover.

Sam Mitchell:
What else is there to say? It seems like Sam has played a role in numerous losses this season. Absolutely unacceptable from a professional head coach on a playoff bound team. We simply are a POORLY coached team. No defensive improvement all season, no plays at either end beyond a handful, strange substitution patterns that seem to backfire a lot (Jose for the ENTIRE first half when he's struggling? Jose and TJ at the same time for a whole quarter???)

-Seriously Sam, Hump and Joey G should NEVER play when we're down in the first half of a game. In fact, they should only get garbage minutes.

-How the hell did you win coach of the year again??

-This year, we do absolutely NOTHING well as a team, except for shooting at times. But shouldn't we attribute this to our good shooters? So what the hell is smitch doing for us?

Chuckfino: His usual inconsistent self. There should be an auto hook that takes it out of the game after 2 consecutive missed shots. If he doesn't make one of his first 2, he's going to be cold the whole night..

Moon: IMO the most frustrating Raptor to watch lately. This guy brings nothing to the game anymore. no energy, no aggression, mediocre defence, bricking shots, refusing to drive to the net, failure to finish dunks, bone-headed fouls... Why is he starting again? In fact i wouldn't mind
Moon riding some serious pine. He should stop acting so comfortable out there...a trip to the CBA sooner than he thinks isn't that far-fetched if he keeps playing like this.

Hump: This moron gets lucky enough to get playing time early in the second (thanks smitch!), and within 30 seconds decides to do his patented 19 foot fade-away. As usual, it misses badly.
jepjep
Rookie
Posts: 1,103
And1: 442
Joined: Apr 03, 2006

 

Post#185 » by jepjep » Sat Mar 1, 2008 4:47 am

We want BREZEC.... SAM SHOULD BE BERATED BY BC
Death Knight
RealGM
Posts: 15,673
And1: 3,076
Joined: Jun 27, 2006

 

Post#186 » by Death Knight » Sat Mar 1, 2008 4:49 am

rkid wrote:-= original quote snipped =-



I can't believe your arrogance. :rofl:

You're the king of circular arguments here so I won't point out the holes in your statement.


You know you like it.

And I know the argument goes both ways. I'm just giving you the other side of it.

There is a reason why defense gets you further than offense. Why you just can't admit that the Raptors lost this game because of D moreso than the fact that they miss Bosh is beyond me. If you are happy giving up 122pts and want to rely on outscoring your opponent by scoring 123pts to win games, then go ahead.

The Raptors scored 111pts. With even mediocre defense, you would win on most nights if not all nights. Only crappy defensive teams can score 111pts in regulation and still lose.
jepjep
Rookie
Posts: 1,103
And1: 442
Joined: Apr 03, 2006

 

Post#187 » by jepjep » Sat Mar 1, 2008 4:53 am

3rd bad game in a row for Jose.... Seems like he is intimidated with TJ. TJ played 2 and half good games and the old TJ showed up in the 2nd half today..... too bad he called his number too often and if not, just dribbled around until he was trapped :(
Death Knight
RealGM
Posts: 15,673
And1: 3,076
Joined: Jun 27, 2006

 

Post#188 » by Death Knight » Sat Mar 1, 2008 4:57 am

Mr.Raptorsingh wrote:T.J. Ford looked gassed in the second half, especially as the 4th quarter went along. For some damn reason, T.J. kept getting matched up w/ either Kareem Rush or Marquis Daniels on defence. Those two guys beat the crap out of him. I think that took a lot out of his offensive game.


This is easy. The Raptors don't run back on defense with defense in mind. They just run back for the sake of running back like track and field. They don't run back on defense with which man they are guarding in mind. Even after they get back for a good solid 3+ seconds, they are slow to pick up their man. That and they sometimes pick up the wrong man because there is no communication.
Death Knight
RealGM
Posts: 15,673
And1: 3,076
Joined: Jun 27, 2006

 

Post#189 » by Death Knight » Sat Mar 1, 2008 5:02 am

jepjep wrote:3rd bad game in a row for Jose.... Seems like he is intimidated with TJ. TJ played 2 and half good games and the old TJ showed up in the 2nd half today..... too bad he called his number too often and if not, just dribbled around until he was trapped :(


I wish Calderon would stop giving Bosh so many touches. Everytime he runs the pick and roll with Bosh, he makes up his mind that he is going to lob it back up top to Bosh. Defenses are quickly figuring this out and picking off the lob pass by Calderon. Calderon needs to keep his dribble alive more often after coming off the pick and either probe a little bit more or turn the corner on the pick. There needs to be more options after coming off the pick or else you limit the effectiveness of the pick and roll.

Calderon is quickly becoming more and more passive ever since Ford's come back. It doesn't make sense, because with Ford back, and less minutes to be played he should be going at it a bit harder with every minute that he is out there.
User avatar
18 Parkerville
Sixth Man
Posts: 1,997
And1: 0
Joined: Nov 10, 2007
Location: Running a 2-on-1 fast break with Jose Calderon

 

Post#190 » by 18 Parkerville » Sat Mar 1, 2008 5:02 am

jepjep wrote:3rd bad game in a row for Jose.... Seems like he is intimidated with TJ. TJ played 2 and half good games and the old TJ showed up in the 2nd half today..... too bad he called his number too often and if not, just dribbled around until he was trapped :(


We've been down the last 3 games by 10 or more points after the first quarter I think. Jose simply isn't playing well, but moreover, he's starting games HORRIBLY. no flow out there.

At least show some signs of improvement on your D jose, and then it wouldn't matter as much when you're turning the ball over and failing to set up any offense but perimeter jumpers.
jepjep
Rookie
Posts: 1,103
And1: 442
Joined: Apr 03, 2006

 

Post#191 » by jepjep » Sat Mar 1, 2008 5:05 am

Tha Cynic wrote:Sam Mitchell needs to learn that you completely lose the effectiveness of your PGs when you play them with no bigs and a lineup full of guards, none of whom can do anything but spot up and shoot. This game was lost in the 2nd quarter when they could have gotten the lead back if Sam would have went with the usual lineup he has to start he 2nd on other nights. Why Calderon played the entire first half I have no idea.


You hit it right on... I didn't think about this though I had a feeling that was weird. Having JC play the whole first half with nothing much to show and then starting Rasho. Brezec would have been better since he is more active than Rasho. IDIOT SAM
User avatar
18 Parkerville
Sixth Man
Posts: 1,997
And1: 0
Joined: Nov 10, 2007
Location: Running a 2-on-1 fast break with Jose Calderon

 

Post#192 » by 18 Parkerville » Sat Mar 1, 2008 5:09 am

Death Knight wrote:-= original quote snipped =-



I wish Calderon would stop giving Bosh so many touches. Everytime he runs the pick and roll with Bosh, he makes up his mind that he is going to lob it back up top to Bosh. Defenses are quickly figuring this out and picking off the lob pass by Calderon. Calderon needs to keep his dribble alive more often after coming off the pick and either probe a little bit more or turn the corner on the pick. There needs to be more options after coming off the pick or else you limit the effectiveness of the pick and roll.

Calderon is quickly becoming more and more passive ever since Ford's come back. It doesn't make sense, because with Ford back, and less minutes to be played he should be going at it a bit harder with every minute that he is out there.


I think you're right in that teams definitely have a greater scouting knowledge of Jose's game. It's not that complicated, so it is discerning if indeed teams have figured him out.

I'm worried his lack of D has been widely scouted as well. It seems to me opposing PG's have started to attack Jose with much more frequency than they used to.

But at least I saw Jose TRYING to do something different on offense today. His usual stuff wasn't working so he tried to dribble hard and penetrate at full speed for easy baskets. The only problem is he lacks the speed to get a clear path to the net without a screen. So instead, he kicked it out to perimeter guys (unfortunately for us the recipient for those passes are often guys like Jamario)

I really hope Jose can turn this funk around, because he definitely does not look effective out there at all right now. We need him
Grizzled
Starter
Posts: 2,479
And1: 0
Joined: Jul 14, 2005

 

Post#193 » by Grizzled » Sat Mar 1, 2008 5:16 am

The Letter V wrote:-= original quote snipped =-


Here's a clue, Bosh wasn't playing. Somebody had to take those shots....and God knows Jose isn't going to sacrifice his FG% for more shot attempts. He's just so damn passive, and on nights like tonight, that hurts the team far more than if he were to jack up 10 more shots.


If you take TJ
Raptors90102
Banned User
Posts: 5,050
And1: 3
Joined: Feb 27, 2007

 

Post#194 » by Raptors90102 » Sat Mar 1, 2008 5:41 am

18 Parkerville wrote:Horrible Game.

These idiots placing blame solely on TJ: did you actually watch the WHOLE game? He had a horrid 4th and end of the 3rd, but played pretty good in the first half.

-TJ is having problem finishing layups. The fact he's getting the chance at some clean layups is a good sign though, so it's not all bad. They will come around. But he needs to pass more when his shot isn't dropping.

-IMO TJ is too competitive, which overall is a good thing...but it leads him to want to carry the team on his small back when we're playing like shi.t.

Jose "El Matador" Calderon:

-Horrible defence was VERY noticeable tonight. Serious..what are we, 50 something games into the season? What a joke. Yet he yells and screams like he's a leader back there..in reality, half the time he's in no-man's-land, the other half he's clapping behind someone that already beat him easily off the dribble. (tonight it was the scrub travis diener's turn)

-Jose's been playing poorly lately, and it's really starting to hurt us, particularly in the 1st quarter.
IIRC we've been down 10-15 points EVERY GAME FOR FOUR STRAIGHT in the first with jose starting. His play simply isn't getting it done. He looks slow and tired, compounded with his usual poor D. Being down 10-15 points really puts us behind the 8 ball and it takes our offense a while to recover.

Sam Mitchell:
What else is there to say? It seems like Sam has played a role in numerous losses this season. Absolutely unacceptable from a professional head coach on a playoff bound team. We simply are a POORLY coached team. No defensive improvement all season, no plays at either end beyond a handful, strange substitution patterns that seem to backfire a lot (Jose for the ENTIRE first half when he's struggling? Jose and TJ at the same time for a whole quarter???)

-Seriously Sam, Hump and Joey G should NEVER play when we're down in the first half of a game. In fact, they should only get garbage minutes.

-How the hell did you win coach of the year again??

-This year, we do absolutely NOTHING well as a team, except for shooting at times. But shouldn't we attribute this to our good shooters? So what the hell is smitch doing for us?

Chuckfino: His usual inconsistent self. There should be an auto hook that takes it out of the game after 2 consecutive missed shots. If he doesn't make one of his first 2, he's going to be cold the whole night..

Moon: IMO the most frustrating Raptor to watch lately. This guy brings nothing to the game anymore. no energy, no aggression, mediocre defence, bricking shots, refusing to drive to the net, failure to finish dunks, bone-headed fouls... Why is he starting again? In fact i wouldn't mind
Moon riding some serious pine. He should stop acting so comfortable out there...a trip to the CBA sooner than he thinks isn't that far-fetched if he keeps playing like this.

Hump: This moron gets lucky enough to get playing time early in the second (thanks smitch!), and within 30 seconds decides to do his patented 19 foot fade-away. As usual, it misses badly.


While I agree with your assessment of Jose's defence, it doens't amaze me that you conveniently left out how TJ got abused by Diener and Daniels tonight. Ofcourse, you would overlook that considering you have been a TJ advocate all along. But I'd like you to be more impartial and point out TJ's defence (or the lack thereof) in tonight's game..

Overall, it was a joke of a game. Jose needs to straighten his act quickly, I think the whole sharing minutes is playing a part in both PG's game. Jose is probably trying too hard to get his teammates going trying to come off as a true point guard while TJ is trying to score as much as he can showing his scoring prowess.. neither is working.. but Jose has just been plain horrible lately.. he played good D vs Minny the other night.. but tonight was just unbearable.. come to think of it, everyone besides Andrea was bad on defense.. everyone including TJ who seemed more interested on the offensive end than trying to keep daniels in front of him.. I wish BC would get his head out of some shooter's ass and get us a big, active shot blocker..
User avatar
18 Parkerville
Sixth Man
Posts: 1,997
And1: 0
Joined: Nov 10, 2007
Location: Running a 2-on-1 fast break with Jose Calderon

 

Post#195 » by 18 Parkerville » Sat Mar 1, 2008 5:48 am

Raptors90102 wrote:-= original quote snipped =-



While I agree with your assessment of Jose's defence, it doens't amaze me that you conveniently left out how TJ got abused by Diener and Daniels tonight. Ofcourse, you would overlook that considering you have been a TJ advocate all along. But I'd like you to be more impartial and point out TJ's defence (or the lack thereof) in tonight's game..

Overall, it was a joke of a game. Jose needs to straighten his act quickly, I think the whole sharing minutes is playing a part in both PG's game. Jose is probably trying too hard to get his teammates going trying to come off as a true point guard while TJ is trying to score as much as he can showing his scoring prowess.. neither is working.. but Jose has just been plain horrible lately.. he played good D vs Minny the other night.. but tonight was just unbearable.. come to think of it, everyone besides Andrea was bad on defense.. everyone including TJ who seemed more interested on the offensive end than trying to keep daniels in front of him.. I wish BC would get his head out of some shooter's ass and get us a big, active shot blocker..


No, I agree. TJ had a poor defensive game as well. IMO I thought TJ played solid defence every other game since he returned (except tonight). I just think Jose has shown this repeated pattern too often so it's more noticeable for me.

In regards to the Minny game, I thought Jose played decent D that game (as you can see in my post somewhere in that PG thread). If he could repeat that type of D on a regular basis, we should all be THRILLED.
User avatar
Raptor/LakerFan
Starter
Posts: 2,000
And1: 17
Joined: Aug 10, 2004
Location: Toronto

 

Post#196 » by Raptor/LakerFan » Sat Mar 1, 2008 5:50 am

LOL at all the people hatin on TJ cause of his FG%.
For all you calderon lovers/TJ hater (99% of you are stat lovers) Calderon had 5 Turnovers today with a 2:1 ast:TO ratio so that should shut you and swirsky up for a while.
TJ changed the whole game today when he came in. Especially in the first half, when the team looked so dead he came in and gave them a lift.
He didn't knock down his shots today but i didnt have a problem with that, he was tryin to make things happen and he was successful most of the time.
His shots just didnt fall in the second half, but they were shots he's supposed to take. (BTW his ast:TO ratio was 9:1 :lol: )

P.S When TRAVIS DIENER blows by you on defense you know you're a horrible defender, but theres no stat for **** defense so calderon's stats still look good, dont worry chuck.

EDIT: here's another stat for you.
TJ was the only player who played mored than 3:42 minutes and had a + in the +/-.
Kobe 4 MVP
dagger
RealGM
Posts: 38,559
And1: 11,125
Joined: Aug 19, 2002
         

 

Post#197 » by dagger » Sat Mar 1, 2008 5:59 am

Raptor/LakerFan wrote:LOL at all the people hatin on TJ cause of his FG%.
For all you calderon lovers/TJ hater (99% of you are stat lovers) Calderon had 5 Turnovers today with a 2:1 ast:TO ratio so that should shut you and swirsky up for a while.
TJ changed the whole game today when he came in. Especially in the first half, when the team looked so dead he came in and gave them a lift.
He didn't knock down his shots today but i didnt have a problem with that, he was tryin to make things happen and he was successful most of the time.
His shots just didnt fall in the second half, but they were shots he's supposed to take. (BTW his ast:TO ratio was 9:1 :lol: )

P.S When TRAVIS DIENER blows by you on defense you know you're a horrible defender, but theres no stat for **** defense so calderon's stats still look good, dont worry chuck.

EDIT: here's another stat for you.
TJ was the only player who played mored than 3:42 minutes and had a + in the +/-.


Actually, Diener had his way with Ford, too. It was pretty bad.
2019 will never be forgotten because FLAGS FLY FOREVER
prototype
Analyst
Posts: 3,597
And1: 356
Joined: Aug 09, 2004
   

 

Post#198 » by prototype » Sat Mar 1, 2008 6:15 am

dagger wrote:-= original quote snipped =-



Actually, Diener had his way with Ford, too. It was pretty bad.


Actual actually, Diener had his way with Calderon. He couldn't guard him one on one. The only time Ford lost Diener was because of the screen where Smitch decided to implement his new switch-a-roo on every screen defensive play.
Mr.Raptorsingh
RealGM
Posts: 30,257
And1: 23,850
Joined: May 17, 2007
 

 

Post#199 » by Mr.Raptorsingh » Sat Mar 1, 2008 6:22 am

^That's the problem w/ our defence....we freakin' switch way too much. It's a good defensive strategy but it's not something you use every single opponents' posession. It's rediculous. And guess what, the PGs usually are the ones that get lost in all of the switches and in matchup nightmare most of the time. I always see Ford signaling to the bench lookin' all confused as to what his assignment is. I mean, how does a guy get matched up w/ the likes of Troy Murphy, David Harrison? This was clearly evident when he was trying box out those two bafoons, but couldn't do it, cause there's such a large discrepancy in size. The whole point here is, switches should not be used all the damn time!!! Especially, when we have midgets out trying to play defence.
User avatar
18 Parkerville
Sixth Man
Posts: 1,997
And1: 0
Joined: Nov 10, 2007
Location: Running a 2-on-1 fast break with Jose Calderon

 

Post#200 » by 18 Parkerville » Sat Mar 1, 2008 6:42 am

just caught the late night replay of the rapstv post game show. Jack and Sherm got it bang on in terms of offensive penetration causing us to rotate, switch and help too much.

of course leo chimes in his opinion saying he thinks it was more about "just playing hard defence" instead...

Jack again shows his intelligence by reframing Leo's generic response with the importance of not getting beat off the dribble, and taking that as a personal challenge for players when they see it happening (*ahem jose)
Jose "Hammy" Calderon - where Gatorade at the half clouding rational judgment happens, and where "hamstring" injuries linger all season long.

Return to Toronto Raptors