O'Bryant wants to leave Nellie

[turk3d]

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Did you just compare POB to Andris?

No, I'm comparing a young Center who's not getting ANY playing time to another one who wasn't getting much playing time.

[Twinkie defense]

I remember CJ saying Nellie doesn't say anything during time outs... in one of those archive articles on Montgomery, I had to chuckle at the complaint that during TOs, he would huddle with his assistants, turning his back on the players, drawing up schemes on the whiteboard.

BTW I agree that starting isn't the most important factor, but it really chapped my hide that prior to a new season Monty was already making what were essentially rotation/pt decisions (at center), despite how bad Foyle had been, and what a bright spark a young Biedrins had been... at least give them the benefit and motivation of fighting it out. And even if you don't like Nellie and prefer Monty, it seems a little disingenuous to be criticizing Nellie for his handling of the bigs while giving Monty a pass on his plans for Biedrins (who I don't think anyone is arguing, is much better than POB).

[St.Nick]

Sunday, 26 November 2006

In his third season from Latvia Andris Biedrins is putting it all together. After struggling early in his career with foul trouble, poor free throw shooting and defensive lapses the 20 year old center appears to be ready to take his game to another level. After limited playing time in his first two years under Mike Montgomery, Andris has show Don Nelson that not only is he capable of contributing but Nelson said that "He might be the best center I have ever coached". Biedrins is currently leading the league in field goal percentage at nearly 68% and is nearly averaging a double double with 10.7 ppg and 9.8 rpg. Maybe the most impressive improvement in his game is his defense. He is averaging nearly 3 blocks per night and is quickly becoming a force in the middle. He has managed to play extremely aggressive defense without getting himself in foul trouble this year and the result has been increased playing time and consistent production.

Part of the credit for his evolution should go to the teachings of Don Nelson and the new coaching staff. When I spoke to Andris during training camp he was excited to be receiving instructions on how to improve his game for the first time in his young career. "This year after each game they say to us, you didn't do that, that, so you can see what you are doing wrong, and not just your mistakes, they will tell you how you made the mistake so you don't make the same mistake the next game". When asked how that was different than Mike Montgomery's teaching style, he said that "last year they didn't say anything". Thankfully, it now appears that Biedrins is getting the propper direction and he is making the most of it.

http://www.warriorsworld.net/news/weekl ... iddle.html

Game. Set. Match.

Unless Biedrins is just another blind, kool aid drinking, Nellile homer.

[Teen Girl Squad]

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Game. Set. Match.

Unless Biedrins is just another blind, kool aid drinking, Nellile homer.

I suppose one could argue that Nellie's problem is that hes too critical of post players/expects to much out of them. His view of what bigs should do on the court is unrealistic.

[FNQ]

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I suppose one could argue that Nellie's problem is that hes too critical of post players/expects to much out of them. His view of what bigs should do on the court is unrealistic.

There's that, and what has Andris really learned? To stay on Baron's weakside, zone D, and the pick n roll? That's all he does... a gross misuse of his talents...

Props to warfan for bringng in fuel for the patrol... to bad its just buzzwords with - 0 - substance to it.

Although it does make me think of Monty as an educator a lot less since they just didn't even talk to Beans...

[Mylie10]

Let's all agree that Nellie has given Andris more of an opportunity than Monty did.

Then let's also agree that if Beans had a consistant mid range jumper, or a spot that he could hit with regularity, he'd play even more for Nellie.


It's the exact reason we won't see much if at all a lineup that has both Beans and Wright on the floor together.

when the Warriors get to that point of having Wright and Beans together as starters and main minute grabbers, then this Warrior team will truly take off.

Maybe by next season we'll get to a point where Wright starts at PF with Beans at center. Jax, Baron, and Monta round out the five. Wright or Beans need a go to shot that somewhat spreads the floor. Or one of them needs to become a real good passer, in order for Nellie to be comfortable with both of them out there.

I have no question in my mind that once those two see significant time TOGETHER, then shot blocking and rebounding won't be a problem for us anymore.

[Twinkie defense]

Props to warfan for bringng in fuel for the patrol... to bad its just buzzwords with - 0 - substance to it.

510, are you calling Andris a LIAR?

[FNQ]

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510, are you calling Andris a LIAR?

Thats about as inaccurate as you can get... Biedrins says they are telling him what to do after the game, whereas Monty didn't. But what is Biedrins doing differently? It's sure isn't anything fundamentally different than he showed in his sophmore season's conclusion...

My guess its all about how to run the pick n roll...

[turk3d]

I think most of the blame has to go to Russell Turner (who's supposed to be responsible for big man development). What the heck has he done to help develop O'Bryant? Haven't heard a peep out of him.

You can't really compare Beans to O'Bryant. Beans essentially came into the league as a Euro pro, was used to playing against bigger and more mature guys than O'Bryant played against while attending Bradley. Beans also had many more years playing a higher level before coming to the pros and has been in the pros significantly longer. And Beans is just a better player and probably got much better coaching while playing Europe.

[Twinkie defense]

But there have been a ton of big man in the League who have not panned out. People blamed Larry Brown for not developing Darko, but in retrospect was Larry an idiot or was Darko just not that good? Maybe Russell Turner is to "blame," but maybe he's been busting his ass trying to get something out of Patrick but it just can't be done. We don't know what's been going on behind the scenes, so I don't know if it's fair to pile it all at a coaches feet (in fact last summer Patrick worked extensively at one of the NBA training camps... so maybe they should get some blame too?).

[Chris Cohan]

The standard rumor is that Turner was instrumental to Biedrins' progress. O'Bryant actually comes with a more polished set of offensive skills than Biedrins but a less explosive athleticism and a less dedicated energy. Biedrins' natural instincts are clearly top level, as well. He's the better player.

O'Bryant's fundamentals are not bad and his instincts are fine. His primary problem is that his confidence and focus are totally shot after spending the last year + being bashed and blacklisted by Don Nelson and he has absolutely no NBA game experience relative to anyone he plays against in a real game so he's effectively still a first half rookie season player everytime he gets out there. Run down the list of his fellow lottery picks that year and only one is in worse shape. Sene was the other lottery bigman gamble and he's still in the D-League. Most rookies get a little leeway. Not O'Bryant.

No amount of skill and conditioning work will cure that, especially when his own capatains and teammates follow suit like good little soldiers and extend the frat boy/military school disciplinarian crap for the coach even when the coach isn't focused on POB's time outs.

Foyle was a veteran with impeccable social and professional credentials. This relationship between Nelson and a big man he couldn't use productively was successfully peddled as a big joke. Credit Adonal Foyle's intelligence and experience.

O'Bryant has no protection and his body language against Charlotte was no worse than Baron or Jax when the calls don't go their way. The difference is that Nelson lets them do whatever they want.

All the time.

[Sleepy51]

No amount of skill and conditioning work will cure that, especially when his own capatains and teammates follow suit like good little soldiers and extend the frat boy/military school disciplinarian crap for the coach even when the coach isn't focused on POB's time outs.

Hmmm . . .gotta break ranks here. I'm sure you did see something untoward from those fantastic seats of yours, but earlier in the season, vets, captains, whomever were all seemingly supportive of Patrick, actively cheering when he did see the floor, and talking to helping and instructing him whenever there was opportunity.

If that changed, it changed the day Patrick quit on the floor. If he's being treated as not part of the team at this point, it's in no small part because of his own actions surrendering to the challenges put in front of him. When he took himself out of that game, that kind of action brands you. And in a close knit locker room enviornment, that kind of self imposed branding as a "quitter" sticks FAR more than any social example being set by a coach.

Patrick did not necessarily make his own bed here, but he certainly is the one who crapped it.

I'm shocked he saw the floor at all again after the quitting.

[Chris Cohan]

I think you've got part of a fair point and I won't OVER apologize for O'Bryant. The public pouting is not as bad as the possible truth to last year's rumors of an ever-present girlfriend, overeating and overspending, the general avoidance of hard work, and so on, for example. O'Bryant has a major role in this and there's history to that role.

You've also drawn the line between early in the year when he got most of his playing time and played better than Webber or Mbenga have played and then after Nelson reverted entirely to the small ball attack.

Last year's correct tough love approach WORKED.

O'Bryant came into this season lean and mean and was quietly very solid in Summer and preseason while Belinelli was paraded first by Smart per marching orders from, oh, who knows who, and then O'Bryant was given a shot to stick early in the year. He did better than most very early 20's, effectively rookie bigs not taken in the top-3 tend to do.

But he also put up a fight when Nelson made it clear he had no intention of playing basketball in ways that would incorporate O'Bryant's strengths, once Nelson made that clear. Talking back to Nellie is not wise for a player to do.

Consider how frustrating Mullin's indecision and Nelson's decisiveness must be for a player who has played ball but now is punished for reacting like high profile youngsters react when they do not succeed. Consider Baron's early years. O'Bryant has done nothing of that sort. He also does not have all of that talent.

Do the math.

There's no way to put this on O'Bryant without turning it back on the organization that drafted him and Perovic and then changed plans immediately and now is not protecting only one of those young players-- nevermind the Belinelli/O'Bryant comparison, which O'Bryant can make just fine on his own as you can imagine-- from a desperate and crazed old man grasping at straws like DJ Mbenga and Chris Webber. The captains want wins and money, too, not a youth camp, and they have been rough on O'Bryant since last year.

O'Bryant claps like crazy and gets up when his teammates do well on the floor. Jasikevicius did, too. Foyle was a model cheerleader and I believed he cared about those taking his playing time doing well.

But O'Bryant got jobbed by the organization. He's tougher than I'm letting on above and his confidence will be back as soon as a team buys into him as a rotation player. And they will.

[turk3d]

Never thought I'd be doing this but for what it's worth

[Sleepy51]

Er . . . a lot of that post is all greek to me, but we probably agree about the stuff that actually happened on the court.

1) Sending Patrick to D league was the right decision
2) He made progress comming into the season
3) Mbenga was a turkey

[Chris Cohan]

Er . . . a lot of that post is all greek to me, but we probably agree about the stuff that actually happened on the court.

1) Sending Patrick to D league was the right decision
2) He made progress comming into the season
3) Mbenga was a turkey

4) Webber is a pumpkin

Agreed.

[Mylie10]

And I'm a little tea pot!

Good post Rowell. what's up?

[turk3d]

Must have contracted some kind of terminal illness.

(Just joking, of course).

[Chris Cohan]

Ha ha ha. Very funny. a-holes!