Golden State Monster Bunnies vs. Phoenix

[thetrueth]

[quote="-SDU-"][/quote]

i would say Baron has flopped. Of course.

But i wouldn't label Baron a flopper.

Every player has flopped, its part of gamesmanship, just like arguing with refs, getting technicals, its part of it. If its excessive or used as part of "defense" than its despicable.

Superstars get super star calls, part of the game.
Dwade gets a whole different set of calls, thats something else.

I wouldn't compare Baron flopping on occassion to anything above and beyond any comparable player.
Vlade was a flopper.

Just like offensive players look for contact to get a foul call, sometimes defensive players are looking for calls too.

[Twinkie defense]

Total minutes for teams two highest shooting percentage players = 20.

Now tell me (you koolaid drinkers out there, and you know who you are) how is that good coaching? All he did by playing Jack on Amare to start the game was to get his ankle messed up again. Amare is no Dirk (even me with my lack of NBA coaching experience could discern this).

Okay, I'll bite

First, let me say I really like the prospects of a Biedrins/Wright frontcourt, especially a little further down the line, when Wright has more seasoning and more beef. I assume and hope the two will see some more time together this season, also.

Last night was probably the last opportunity you'd look towards to pair the two, though.

Nellie's system is all about creating mismatches, and exploiting them - posting Baron on Nash, for instance. Unfortunately the Warriors don't have anyone who can really guard Shaq (not that many teams do, but luckily, he's not the unstoppable offensive force he once was) OR Amare (one of the most dominant big men in the League). SO, Goose on Shaq, Wright on Amare, we're on the wrong side of BOTH of those mismatches. And to add insult to injury (Goose and Wright's injuries, that is), we take two more advantages away from the Warriors in the process - the ability for our penetrators to penetrate (where Shaq and Amare are lurking), and we have fewer long-range bombers on the perimeter scoring threes, moving the ball to the weak side, and spreading the court (which makes it harder for Phoenix to defend).

Especially against a team with two huge guys on the interior, the goal is to stack the perimeter, and force their big men out to guard, which takes away the interior defense, allowing our penetrators to do their thing. Essentially, it says to the opponent: pick your poison: either stay down low and we're going to trade threes for your twos, or come out to guard us and we're going to blow by you for dunks and layups.

It actually worked pretty well, too - Phoenix went away from what they ordinarily do, playing a zone so that Shaq could stay in the middle, and daring us to hit from outside. And we hit from outside pretty well, while our small guys were causing havoc on D, leading to a lot of fast break points.

It certainly wasn't pretty seeing Jack on Amare. But I don't think there's anyone on our roster (or for that matter, many people around the League) who can effectively guard the guy. He's a freak of nature, a skilled, physical beast. There were at least a couple times where Goose guarded Amare, and at least one time where we triple teamed him, and he still scored - the question was only whether it was and-one or not.

Probably the thing to do is match someone, anyone up against Amare, one one one, allow him to get his, but absolutely deny anyone else (like those open jumpers the dead-eye Nash was getting).

But really, there's no shame in losing to the Suns, on the road, on the second night of a back to back (where our starters had to play big minutes. It was a fun game to watch, and really interesting, I thought, to see how fired up the Suns and their fans were to play us - it's like we've gotten into their heads like we've gotten into Dallas' heads! That can only bode well for a possible playoff matchup.

[Twinkie defense]

PS I hate fast starts

[-SDU-]

i would say Baron has flopped. Of course.

But i wouldn't label Baron a flopper.

Every player has flopped, its part of gamesmanship, just like arguing with refs, getting technicals, its part of it. If its excessive or used as part of "defense" than its despicable.

Superstars get super star calls, part of the game.
Dwade gets a whole different set of calls, thats something else.

I wouldn't compare Baron flopping on occassion to anything above and beyond any comparable player.
Vlade was a flopper.

Just like offensive players look for contact to get a foul call, sometimes defensive players are looking for calls too.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MTdERYOtqsg this just always stands out to me, but for sure, i know he doesnt do that every game, i just always think of it every time he falls over now wondering if it was legit or not?



BUT fair call, sometimes a handful of highly publicised plays can create an incorrect perception of a player, and i think thats the point i was trying to get at when people call amare and diaw dirty. I think you guys might think that from a handful of plays etc, but i can categorically say that amare and diaw are as dirty of a player as baron is a flopper. Ive watched hundreds of suns games and Ill stand by the fact that ive never seen them intentionally do anything resembling dirty, and if they have been rough etc, then its certainly only in the .1% of games and not a habitual act.

I could see raja getting the dirty tag (definately crafty), i truly think bowen is the only true "Dirty" player in the league tho who intentionally continuously takes cheap shots.

do me a favour, finish 8th and take out the lakers for us

[Twinkie defense]

Amare and Diaw aren't dirty, and Baron's not a flopper.

Now Bowen, that dude's pretty dirty. And Manu is a flopper.

Some guys are just ticked off here, because Warriors lost the game, and some Phoenix fans had to take the opportunity to come around here and gloat.

Remember when GS didn't even rate enough for Phoenix fans to come around to gloat after a win? I think that says more about the fragile Suns' fan psyche right now than it does about a contested win against an eighth seed, at home

[thetrueth]

[quote="-SDU-"][/quote]

if you look back, i said i didnt think either of those guys were dirty and that my only "dislike" of amare is how much he pounds on our team and enjoys it so thoroughly.

Yea, Baron flopped like no one else on that single play. and it gets a disproportionate amount of pub from those who see it. it as bad as flop gets, but its one play.

[zero]

baron sucks at flopping. he doesn't do it often but the couple of times i've seen him do it he sticks out like a sore thumb. he's not as good an actor as d-fish.

[-SDU-]

yup, there really was only one poster here who called amare and diaw dirty which is where this really came from - he is entitled to that opinion too, i really just wanted to find out where those thoughts came from

on behalf of the suns board, ill apologise for the fans who come here to gloat, thats not right, especially when the warriors are a team we respect alot and your fans have been nothing but respectful on our boards

trust me, you guys have alot of support from suns fans on realgm, just ignore the trolls as they are the minority and the masses support you

regarding amare pounding the warriors, im sorry if this is a sore topic (and knowing a small ball team, you guys have probably debated this to death much like we did with marion defending kaman, brand, duncan etc) but whats nellies logic of putting jackson on amare, even when harrington / biedrins in the game putting those 2 on diaw?

surely the pounding jackson takes at one end lessens his impact offensively? I know in a small ball system there are mismatches with size, but thats one mismatch i thought you guys could switch up for another guy and defend amare better and also keep sjax fresher for offense too?

sorry if this has been discussed before

[Twinkie defense]

I think what you want to try to do with Amare is just put a body on him, keep him a little further away from the post than he'd like, make him take a little bit further of a shot, maybe have to pass. Beidrins is long but he's not the best defender when he has a huge guy just backing him down. Jack and Al have a little bit lower center of gravity, a little more bulk. Jack's a good defender. If Webber were available we might have seen him guard Amare some - he's got his faults, to be sure, but one thing he does decently is hold his ground, stay on the floor, and make himself really long and hard to shoot over. But the bottom line is that the Warriors really don't have anyone to guard Amare, so I guess Jax is as good a try as anyone. Like I said before, it wasn't just Jack on Amare all game, there were some other things tried, including Croshere (who did pretty well but came up empty at the offensive end) and at least one triple team (which ended up as an and-one). What can you do?

[GSWhoopfan]

this wasnt a bad loss, not happy with it, but Phoenix is still a really good team. Amare and Nash are ridiculous together. Its fun to watch them together...unstopable. if Baron and Co can just move on and keep playing with intensity they can focus on the next game.

[turk3d]

I think what you want to try to do with Amare is just put a body on him, keep him a little further away from the post than he'd like, make him take a little bit further of a shot, maybe have to pass. Beidrins is long but he's not the best defender when he has a huge guy just backing him down. Jack and Al have a little bit lower center of gravity, a little more bulk. Jack's a good defender. If Webber were available we might have seen him guard Amare some - he's got his faults, to be sure, but one thing he does decently is hold his ground, stay on the floor, and make himself really long and hard to shoot over. But the bottom line is that the Warriors really don't have anyone to guard Amare, so I guess Jax is as good a try as anyone. Like I said before, it wasn't just Jack on Amare all game, there were some other things tried, including Croshere (who did pretty well but came up empty at the offensive end) and at least one triple team (which ended up as an and-one). What can you do?

Too strong for Jack and way too quick for Webber and Croshere, too tall for Pietrus and Barnes, jumps too high for Al. The only player on our team who has a remote possibility of being able to play him and unfortunately he's a rook, is BWright. Has the height, the length and the quickness to match up possibly but of course our genius coach didn't give him a try. That would have been the perfect opportunity too, since it would have been good to know considering we could run into them in the playoffs.

[DePastino]

-= original quote snipped =-



It wasn't meant to be an informed statement or fact, its an opinion; one that i think is justified by all the reasons that have been discussed since the trade occurred.

Without Shaq, they are much better.

STATED...not proposed. Semantics I know, but you'd be amazed at how many armchair experts out there think they know EXACTLY how the Suns are going to fare with Shaq.

"Discuss reasons" all you want - it all reads like fear to me. I'm not ready to declare the Suns champions - not by a long shot. But to dismiss them as a certain first round casualty is wishful thinking.

Oh, and as far as your $300k wager is concerned-

a. your med school aspirations don't impress me

b. if you don't have $300k, how can you wager it?

c. I would also gladly wager $300k of Monopoly money that GS "won't" win a title

If you want some advice for getting through college, I recommend Beanie Weenies and Pabst Blue Ribbon.