MVP Watch 2008... Part 3.

[Dirk_diggler_41]

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Didn't West make the All Star team?

Chandler is the 4th leading rebounder in the league at 12.4 rpg? He's also avg'g a double double this year.

Peja is the league leader in 3 pt made shots a game. LEAGUE LEADER. And he shoots it at 46.8% so he isn't just a chucker.

Paul is the leader and makes the whole system work but he isn't playing with scrubs. I would say he has more talent to work with than Lebron. The Lakers when healthy have more talent but we know that's not the case.......

West, Chandler, and Peja are not legit top 30 players.

Yes, Paul has more talent to work with than LeBron. So? The Hornets have a much better record and they play in the West.

[Doctor MJ]

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West, Chandler, and Peja are not legit top 30 players.

You realize Paul never accomplished anything without those guys right?

What I see with some of the arguments for Paul is the basic assumption that since he isn't playing with guys who were considered great players when they started playing together, Paul must be playing with a bunch of scrubs, and hence he deserves more credit than whatever player you're arguing against. However, the leap those teammates have now made, simultaneously with Paul making his leap. To assume this complete causality from Paul to his teammates is naive.

Paul is the best player on that team. He is a deserving MVP candidate. However some people go over board. Consider: Kobe, LeBron, and Nash all have far greater +/- separation from their teammates than Paul. How does that happen if Paul's got such a weak supporting cast?

[TMACFORMVP]

A poster named 'TMACFORMVP', in a discussion about who should win the MVP award, saying it ought not be T-Mac.

Something about this just speaks of the end of days.

I was actually thinking of requesting a SN change a couple weeks ago to something more regular like "T-Mac" but we were on a 8 game winning streak and thought why change it, and well I guess you know the rest of the story since then.

But in reality Mac has missed too many games, and is starting to enter the discussion too late in the season. I still think it's still pretty noteworthy to at least be mentioned and finish in the Top 5-8 considering how many people wrote him off. My list would be:

1. Chris Paul
2. Kobe Bryant
3. LeBron James
4. Kevin Garnett
5. Dwight Howard

Though I do think Kobe if it were to end today at least would be the MVP, but IMO Paul has pulled a way by a slight margin.

Should be fun to see who wins it. (Still think it's Kobe's to lose)

[MT1983]

I agree that Chris Paul isn't playing with scrubs. But he did turn one scrub (Tyson's sissy ass) into a legitimate player. We had Tyson in Chicago for 5 years, and he was nowhere near the player he is now. That's just not coincidence.

[JoeyH]

Lets also not forget that Peja has been in the NBA 11 years, and his highest 3 point % before this year was 43%. Right now he is at 47%. Coincidence? no.

[fadinaway]

Lets also not forget that Peja has been in the NBA 11 years, and his highest 3 point % before this year was 43%. Right now he is at 47%. Coincidence? no.

That just means Peja's playing on a very talented team. The guy is usually wide open on those 3s and it's not just because of Paul. West isn't exactly garbage you know. Add in Peterson, Chandler, Pargo and Bonzi and that's a very nice team. Even the rookie Wright is very impressive..

Without Bynum and Ariza, I like their roster much better than LA's even with Gasol. Why? Cos they can play defense as well as score..

That said, if NO has a better record than LA, you gotta give it to Paul. He's making Nash's MVP seasons look like a joke..

[JoeyH]

Lets also not forget that Peja has been in the NBA 11 years, and his highest 3 point % before this year was 43%. Right now he is at 47%. Coincidence? no.

That just means Peja's playing on a very talented team. The guy is usually wide open on those 3s and it's not just because of Paul. West isn't exactly garbage you know. Add in Peterson, Chandler, Pargo and Bonzi and that's a very nice team. Even the rookie Wright is very impressive..

Without Bynum and Ariza, I like their roster much better than LA's even with Gasol. Why? Cos they can play defense as well as score..

That said, if NO has a better record than LA, you gotta give it to Paul. He's making Nash's MVP seasons look like a joke..

And he didn't have talent around him when he was in his prime and in Sacramento...right?

[Bucs80]

1. Chris Paul - Back on top after winning Beating Lakers and Spurs back to back. I say he is number one in a Kobe Bryant and Lebron James Race.

2. Kobe Bryant - Lost yesterday hurt, and losing the 1st place position in the West.

3. Lebron James - Giving it his all, but they have lost 3/5 games, with this team, probably cost him MVP honors.

4. Dwight Howard - Magic are 3rd place, and he is dominating everyone in his sites.

5. Tracy McGrady - Team is 1st place in the west, but I can't put him higher than Dwight Howard because him and his team have been only been doing this the last 2 1/2 months. wouldn't be fair to the other guys who showed up the whole season and have been the leagues best for the whole season.

6. Kevin Garnett - More of a team oriented game, but provides the fire. He is a great player and numbers don't need to show it.

7. Tim Duncan - Doing what he does best, and dominate in a silent way.

8. Steve Nash - Got the troops line-up and is playing better. Having Shaq's fatass doing something

9. Dirk Nowiztki - He is top ten, if I don't even like him or not.

10. Baron Davis - Very important to the team, and is getting them into the playoffs. Amazing play from him deserves to put him in the top 10.

[MT1983]

Am I the only one that thinks T-mac should get the award if the Rockets finish with the #1 record in the West?

[C'mon Cavs]

Am I the only one that thinks T-mac should get the award if the Rockets finish with the #1 record in the West?

Probably.

I'd probably have him 5th right now.

1. LeBron
2. Kobe
3. Paul
4. KG
5. T-Mac

I dont think he should pass the LBJ, Kobe, Paul trio at the top, unless he goes absolutely nuts the rest of the way. I dont think he's a better player than any of the 4 I listed above him.

[Bucs80]

Am I the only one that thinks T-mac should get the award if the Rockets finish with the #1 record in the West?

No...

I'm with you too.

I think it would be half. But it's Full Season MVP. McGrady started really playing good at the end of January.

which does hurt him alot.

[Storm Surge]

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No...

I'm with you too.

I think it would be half. But it's Full Season MVP. McGrady started really playing good at the end of January.

which does hurt him alot.

he's making up for that now.

[hoopinmadness]

Full Article at www.hoopsvine.com

here's the text


Chris Paul for MVP is starting to make a lot more sense in my view. He

[INKtastic]

Am I the only one that thinks T-mac should get the award if the Rockets finish with the #1 record in the West?

I think people look just a bit too much at team record and seeding. If you're withing a game or two of the conference lead, does it really matter if you are the 2 seed or the 6 seed? One or two games shouldn't move you from MVP to out of the race vs an otherwise lesser candidate.

Better team record often simply means you have a better team or have been healthier. If McGrady is supposed to vault to the top because his team moved to the top of the west, why is he more valuable than KG, who has his team at the top of the league. I'm impressed with the rockets winning streak, but it's not enough to just hand McGrady the MVP when he wouldn't even be a top 10 candidate if you didn't look at team record.

The three primary candidates should be LeBron and Paul, who are having the two best statistical seasons, and Kobe because of the perception he could have a season on par with theirs, but has pulled back a hair to make the team better. Kobe is a hard one for me to decide on. Are the lakers better this year because kobe's playing differently or are they better simply because they are better.

These next few games will be significant for where I rank Kobe - can he elevate his game to make up for the missing players and get a win or two, or do they drop all 4 games of this trip. I don't expect him to win all of the games, but he should be able to pull out one or two of them.

I do rate Paul higher than I did a couple weeks ago - I don't care so much that they're within a half game of the lead in the west. I do care that they have been able to continue to win at a high rate as their schedule got tougher when the assumption by most a few weeks ago was that they'd fall off a bit.

[G35]

Lets also not forget that Peja has been in the NBA 11 years, and his highest 3 point % before this year was 43%. Right now he is at 47%. Coincidence? no.

Good point.

Pau Gasol in 7 seasons has never shot better than 54% and now he is shooting over 58%.

Lamar Odom's career FG% high in 9 seasons is 48% but he is shooting 51.5% for the season.

Radmanovic, Bynum, Fisher, Vujacic, Farmar are all shooting career highs from the field........

[MT1983]

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I think people look just a bit too much at team record and seeding. If you're withing a game or two of the conference lead, does it really matter if you are the 2 seed or the 6 seed? One or two games shouldn't move you from MVP to out of the race vs an otherwise lesser candidate.

Better team record often simply means you have a better team or have been healthier. If McGrady is supposed to vault to the top because his team moved to the top of the west, why is he more valuable than KG, who has his team at the top of the league. I'm impressed with the rockets winning streak, but it's not enough to just hand McGrady the MVP when he wouldn't even be a top 10 candidate if you didn't look at team record.

The three primary candidates should be LeBron and Paul, who are having the two best statistical seasons, and Kobe because of the perception he could have a season on par with theirs, but has pulled back a hair to make the team better. Kobe is a hard one for me to decide on. Are the lakers better this year because kobe's playing differently or are they better simply because they are better.

These next few games will be significant for where I rank Kobe - can he elevate his game to make up for the missing players and get a win or two, or do they drop all 4 games of this trip. I don't expect him to win all of the games, but he should be able to pull out one or two of them.

I do rate Paul higher than I did a couple weeks ago - I don't care so much that they're within a half game of the lead in the west. I do care that they have been able to continue to win at a high rate as their schedule got tougher when the assumption by most a few weeks ago was that they'd fall off a bit.

I totally agree with what you're saying. But you look at where the Rockets were just 6 weeks ago, then you factor in they're still doing all this without their franchise center, and I think you have a special case.

[T-Mac for MVP]

I don't understand this "McGrady's only been doing it for half a season" argument. Houston's record at the moment is an accumulation of their wins and loses for the entire season, as with all other teams in the league. Currently Houston has 45 wins and a lot of other West teams are around that win mark FOR THE SEASON. Kobe, Lebron, Paul, etc. have been doing it all season, but they don't have wins to show for it? I don't see why the above mentioned superstars are getting more love even if their team loses than McGrady is for Houston's loses. The only difference between Lakers, Cavaliers, and Hornets loses compared to Rockets loses is that all of the Rockets loses came early in the season and the other teams have their loses dispersed.

[RobertGlory]

the hornets' current core is paul, west, chandler, stojakovic

david west was garbage going into year 3 of his career when paul arrived. previous point guards (baron davis, kenny anderson, dan dickau) used to either ignore him or he was hurt, but DX found a jumpshot in OKC and developed other parts of his game. now he's developed an off-the-dribble game, which hurts his jumpshot a little due to the hesitation that he needs to play out of his game. still he's the #2 option in the halfcourt game for us.

chandler was garbage until cp3 found a use for him on the other end of alley-oop lobs. TC's confidence improved, and his whole offensive and defensive games did so too. he's developed emotion that chicago took out of him (did you see him punching the basket after that dunk friday?)

stojakovic was considered garbage before signing with us on a big contract, then he missed 69 games last year. but peja now has developed into the threat that keeps defenses honest. the hornets run lots of pick-and-rolls, and someone's able to score. paul

the hornets are good at team defense in the paint, which leads to cp3 making a lot of gambles for steals.

[Kobay]

So Tyson was garbage and made team USA before this season? Peja is not garbage the dude just under achieves in playoffs. I don't know anything about west so i'll take your word for it. Most teams cannot reach the level of elite because they lack post pressence or size. CP3 has definitively contributed and is massive reason for the Hornets success. But garbage is not the word that should be used describe those guys.

[NO-KG-AI]

HE said Chandler was garbage before he got here, and in his last year in Chicago, he was, which is why they gave him up in favor of Ben Wallace.