MVP Watch 2008... Part 3.

Moderators: bwgood77, zimpy27, infinite11285, Clav, Domejandro, ken6199, bisme37, Dirk, KingDavid, cupcakesnake

User avatar
eatyourchildren
Lead Assistant
Posts: 4,501
And1: 11
Joined: Mar 26, 2007

 

Post#821 » by eatyourchildren » Mon Mar 17, 2008 5:40 pm

[quote="prekazi"][/quote]

Look at you. You just changed your story up, and also managed to telescope on a few plays.

I watched the replay. Kobe guarded TMac. Not the whole game, but he guarded him on enough possessions. Not to mention that TMac got at least 2 of his baskets on Odom.

When did TMac guard Kobe? It was a Battier effort the entire night. I'm just saying, if someone (HouMAC) is going to knock Kobe's shooting night, they should also do the same to TMac, and acknowledge that Kobe at least had a 50% defensive effort on TMac the whole night, compared to TMac's 10% defensive effort on Kobe.
ugkfan2681" wrote: wrote: i dont take **** lightly im from the land of the trill home of the rockets RESPECT OK.
HarlemHeat37
Banned User
Posts: 6,570
And1: 7
Joined: Sep 14, 2006

 

Post#822 » by HarlemHeat37 » Mon Mar 17, 2008 5:50 pm

let's not get it twisted though..

Kobe's D wasn't even nearly the main factor in McGrady's bad game..not even close..he couldn't even blow by Radmanovic half the time he was guarding him..this is a guy that was coming off TWO 48-minute games in the last week..this is also a guy that has been injury prone for years, so you can understand that he was missing a step with all of the minutes he has been playing..that doesn't take away the fact that Kobe is one of the best defenders in the NBA, but he wasn't the reason..I would argue that Kobe's D was a little off yesterday, because he got blown by a few times, by Shane Battier out of all people(1 or 2 times)..understandable, because Kobe had to carry the entire load offensively..again, not taking anything away from him, but I hate when people give out bias statements..

now I wouldn't put him near the MVP trophy as of right now, but if Houston ends up 1st at the end of the year, he needs to be considered..as for Kobe, he better hope Gasol comes back quickly, because if Paul wins a lot while Gasol is out, the trophy could be his..
User avatar
eatyourchildren
Lead Assistant
Posts: 4,501
And1: 11
Joined: Mar 26, 2007

 

Post#823 » by eatyourchildren » Mon Mar 17, 2008 7:47 pm

Playing Devil's Advocate:

Doesn't TMac's PER exclude him from the MVP discussion? If you ask Diaper Dandy or any other PER jockers, TMac's individual performance/production doesn't highly as highly correlate to wins as two of his other teammates.

John Hollinger is God, and PER is the baby Jesus he has sent down into our mortal world.
ugkfan2681" wrote: wrote: i dont take **** lightly im from the land of the trill home of the rockets RESPECT OK.
Cevap
Banned User
Posts: 2,594
And1: 1
Joined: Feb 11, 2007

 

Post#824 » by Cevap » Mon Mar 17, 2008 7:52 pm

Odom guarded TMac last night as far as i saw...sure kobe got him a few times but it was mostly Odom's job.
User avatar
shobe_81
Inactive user
Inactive user
Posts: 2,749
And1: 0
Joined: Nov 17, 2007

 

Post#825 » by shobe_81 » Mon Mar 17, 2008 8:04 pm

Cevap wrote:Odom guarded TMac last night as far as i saw...sure kobe got him a few times but it was mostly Odom's job.


NO, Vlad Rad guarded T-Mac as far as you saw!

Odom only guarded T-Mac on plays leading to in face jumpers and drive and kick assists!

And to the 2nd above post, F**k John Hollinger, doesn't that perk have Kobe 7th on the MVP list :banghead:

Here are his previous MVP picks:
* 2006 LeBron James
* 2005 Kevin Garnett (T-Wolves didn't make the Playoffs)
* 2004 Kevin Garnett

And it's the same idiot who said Kobe should go for surgery on the pinky and stop trying to be a hero by playing the season out! :crazy:
User avatar
Baller 24
RealGM
Posts: 16,637
And1: 19
Joined: Feb 11, 2006

 

Post#826 » by Baller 24 » Mon Mar 17, 2008 8:12 pm

[quote="shobe_81"][/quote]

Ehh...opinions are opinions, there are a lot of people that don't like Kobe, but there are also people that think Kobe is god. He is a sports anaylst so most of what he says, people will consider"true" considering he is an accurate source. But then again this guy is a Rockets lover, hell he picked the Rockets to win the west with a 60 win record, currently they lead the west, but I doubt it happens.

As for MVP, Tracy McGrady will be a top 5 vote getter this year if he keeps it up, he has been in the top 5 plenty of times, but considering he has no playoff success he doesn't get much attention. But IMO he should get to the all NBA 2nd team, he deserves it this year too, and btw does anyone know if he would be the first player to not play in the all star game, but get on the all nba team? Just wondering, I haven't seen any in the past.
dockingsched wrote: the biggest loss of the off-season for the lakers was earl clark
Dirk_diggler_41
Pro Prospect
Posts: 896
And1: 0
Joined: Mar 10, 2003

 

Post#827 » by Dirk_diggler_41 » Mon Mar 17, 2008 8:14 pm

eatyourchildren wrote:Playing Devil's Advocate:

Doesn't TMac's PER exclude him from the MVP discussion? If you ask Diaper Dandy or any other PER jockers, TMac's individual performance/production doesn't highly as highly correlate to wins as two of his other teammates.

John Hollinger is God, and PER is the baby Jesus he has sent down into our mortal world.



And why do you think his PER is mediocre? Might it have something to do with his poor play in December and January? When someone doesn't play great basketball all year, don't expect a great PER.

T-Mac is a joke candidate. People love streaks too much. That is why baseball players like Ripken and Dimaggio are overrated.
User avatar
MaxRider
RealGM
Posts: 44,473
And1: 5,805
Joined: Jun 08, 2005
Location: Choke City
 

 

Post#828 » by MaxRider » Mon Mar 17, 2008 8:23 pm

Cevap wrote:Odom guarded TMac last night as far as i saw...sure kobe got him a few times but it was mostly Odom's job.


Radmanovic is on T-Mac most of the time, Kobe is on him in 4th
but the true is there were guys from both side ready to come and help on defense
that's how Alston, Battier, Jackson got all those open 3
User avatar
MaxRider
RealGM
Posts: 44,473
And1: 5,805
Joined: Jun 08, 2005
Location: Choke City
 

 

Post#829 » by MaxRider » Mon Mar 17, 2008 8:25 pm

T-Mac is our biggest name
that's why people put him on the list
but Alston is actually our best player during the streak
User avatar
shobe_81
Inactive user
Inactive user
Posts: 2,749
And1: 0
Joined: Nov 17, 2007

 

Post#830 » by shobe_81 » Mon Mar 17, 2008 8:35 pm

MaxRider wrote:-= original quote snipped =-



Radmanovic is on T-Mac most of the time, Kobe is on him in 4th
but the true is there were guys from both side ready to come and help on defense
that's how Alston, Battier, Jackson got all those open 3


Radman and Kobe played good D on T-Mac, they didn't give him much space and played him well on drives, it was the stupid PG defense that killed the Lakers, when McGrady drove, Fish/Farmer/Sasha tried to double him and left Alston and Jackson open for 3's! Just pathetic defense by their PG's especially when T-mac wasn't even hitting the shots, they just had to try to help (a bit too much).

Alston 31 (Many under screen 3's again, horrible defense by Fish/Farmer)
Jackson 17/19

Letting one PG go 8-11 on you from the 3pt land just explains how bad your defense performance was!
User avatar
INKtastic
Retired Mod
Retired Mod
Posts: 23,259
And1: 5,027
Joined: May 26, 2003
Location: Ohio
Contact:
     

 

Post#831 » by INKtastic » Mon Mar 17, 2008 9:14 pm

It would diminish the meaning of the award for McGrady to win it this year. Way too much emphasis is placed on a couple of wins for a team who doesn't even have the best record in the league. There is no justification for McGrady to finish ahead of Billups, and nobody even has Billups in their top 5.

Fortunately for the integrity award, Houston has several losses ahead of them in the next couple of weeks.
http://www.inktastic.com/ Custom T-Shirts and more
nyk_buc
Head Coach
Posts: 7,408
And1: 58
Joined: Jul 09, 2005
Location: none

 

Post#832 » by nyk_buc » Mon Mar 17, 2008 9:29 pm

MaxRider wrote:T-Mac is our biggest name
that's why people put him on the list
but Alston is actually our best player during the streak


alston has been great, putting up 15 and 7.

but tmac has avg 22, 5, 6 during this streak, and since yao's absence, 26, 5, 6. so that's a bad point.

alston has def. made himself into a legit starter now. he's playing with more freedom.
nyk_buc
Head Coach
Posts: 7,408
And1: 58
Joined: Jul 09, 2005
Location: none

 

Post#833 » by nyk_buc » Mon Mar 17, 2008 9:30 pm

MaxRider wrote:T-Mac is our biggest name
that's why people put him on the list
but Alston is actually our best player during the streak


alston has been great, putting up 15 and 7.

but tmac has avg 22, 5, 6 during this streak, and since yao's absence, 26, 5, 6. so that's a bad point.

alston has def. made himself into a legit starter now. he's playing with more freedom.
nyk_buc
Head Coach
Posts: 7,408
And1: 58
Joined: Jul 09, 2005
Location: none

 

Post#834 » by nyk_buc » Mon Mar 17, 2008 9:31 pm

lj4mvp wrote:It would diminish the meaning of the award for McGrady to win it this year. Way too much emphasis is placed on a couple of wins for a team who doesn't even have the best record in the league. There is no justification for McGrady to finish ahead of Billups, and nobody even has Billups in their top 5.

Fortunately for the integrity award, Houston has several losses ahead of them in the next couple of weeks.


i agree, tmac def. doesn't deserve it this yr. he only has played 1st team all-nba ball since the all-star break. before then, he had a great 2-3 weeks, then a few injuries which caused him to miss 15 games.

i actually have paul winning it.

but billups??? now that's a true team. prince and wallace are actually their most valuable players. prince defends the best player and wallace gives them a dimension that make them great.
User avatar
INKtastic
Retired Mod
Retired Mod
Posts: 23,259
And1: 5,027
Joined: May 26, 2003
Location: Ohio
Contact:
     

 

Post#835 » by INKtastic » Mon Mar 17, 2008 9:35 pm

T-Mac hasn't even been playing 1st team all NBA since the all star break. Kobe and Paul are both clearly ahead of him even for just that stretch. The rockets are getting help from everywhere, it's not a 1 man show and that's what it would have to be to make a case for McGrady after his poor first half of the season.

I said Billups because they have the better team, he has been the better individual player this season and the only way to remotely justify McGrady as MVP is based on team success.
http://www.inktastic.com/ Custom T-Shirts and more
nyk_buc
Head Coach
Posts: 7,408
And1: 58
Joined: Jul 09, 2005
Location: none

 

Post#836 » by nyk_buc » Mon Mar 17, 2008 9:39 pm

lj4mvp wrote:T-Mac hasn't even been playing 1st team all NBA since the all star break. Kobe and Paul are both clearly ahead of him even for just that stretch. The rockets are getting help from everywhere, it's not a 1 man show and that's what it would have to be to make a case for McGrady after his poor first half of the season.


he's been putting up 26, 5, 6 on 47% shooting. yes he has great role players, but he played TWO 48-minute game in the last week alone. nobody else has done that in the entire season.

his minutes have skyrocketed to 41mpg.

look at paul without west -> hornets are not good. tmac outdueled paul a week ago (and actually outshine him TWICE). and they'll meet again.

again, i don't think he deserves it. but if it's for people who are deserving, shaq would have had 3-4 by now. nash didn't deserve it his first yr when he only put up 14 and 11 (you think those are great stats???). team success is key to winning the MVP.

KG is putting up 18 and 11 (not his best stats either).

again, tmac i think has a great chance if his team wins the west by 3-4 games, which i hope won't happen.

paul and kobe have been more deserving this year definitely.

but team success is hard to deny. tmac's level of play and responsiblities have stepped up since yao went out. the role players have helped more with the DEFENSE. but if you saw the 4 games prior to the laker game, tmac WILLED his team to those 4 wins.
User avatar
INKtastic
Retired Mod
Retired Mod
Posts: 23,259
And1: 5,027
Joined: May 26, 2003
Location: Ohio
Contact:
     

 

Post#837 » by INKtastic » Mon Mar 17, 2008 9:46 pm

Lets try to get the right stats - post all star game

tmac 24.4/4.9/6.1/.455

Kobe 27.7/6.8/4.3/.457
Paul 24.1/3.8/12.4/.536

If there were a post all star game first team all nba, you'd be hard pressed to put McGrady ahead of those two.
http://www.inktastic.com/ Custom T-Shirts and more
nyk_buc
Head Coach
Posts: 7,408
And1: 58
Joined: Jul 09, 2005
Location: none

 

Post#838 » by nyk_buc » Mon Mar 17, 2008 9:49 pm

lj4mvp wrote:Lets try to get the right stats - post all star game

tmac 24.4/4.9/6.1/.455

Kobe 27.7/6.8/4.3/.457
Paul 24.1/3.8/12.4/.536

If there were a post all star game first team all nba, you'd be hard pressed to put McGrady ahead of those two.


yes i would. paul's team has lost BADLY to the rockets and pistons without west.

tmac without yao has led his team to a 10-0 record.

tmac has singlehandedly beaten the hornets twice since the all-star break with 34 pts and 41 pts.

i put him ahead of paul since the ASB (not for the whole year though, paul has been amazing).
User avatar
INKtastic
Retired Mod
Retired Mod
Posts: 23,259
And1: 5,027
Joined: May 26, 2003
Location: Ohio
Contact:
     

 

Post#839 » by INKtastic » Mon Mar 17, 2008 9:57 pm

Yao had 28 points and 14 and the rockets won my 20 the first win over the Hornets, I'd hardly say that was singlehandedly. The second win over the Hornets was probably McGrady's most impressive single game of the season. It's not enough for MVP consideration, though, as other players have had multiple games that are better.
http://www.inktastic.com/ Custom T-Shirts and more
nyk_buc
Head Coach
Posts: 7,408
And1: 58
Joined: Jul 09, 2005
Location: none

 

Post#840 » by nyk_buc » Mon Mar 17, 2008 10:16 pm

lj4mvp wrote:Yao had 28 points and 14 and the rockets won my 20 the first win over the Hornets, I'd hardly say that was singlehandedly. The second win over the Hornets was probably McGrady's most impressive single game of the season. It's not enough for MVP consideration, though, as other players have had multiple games that are better.


again, i think what you are missing is tmac's leadership since yao has been out. if you watch rocket games, you would understand. look at the hawks and bobcats game. we could have easily lost those 2 but tmac willed us to those wins.

again, i never said tmac was deserving.

was nash deserving in his first win? he avg 14 and 11. i wouldn't call those "great" stats. but his team did have the best record.

you think the hornets can win without paul? you think the lakers can win without pau?

tmac has proven his team can win without yao. yes everyone is chipping in, but he still is putting up the most stats, plays the most minutes, and gets all the attention from the opposing teams. there's a reason tmac played 48 minutes TWO TIMES in the past week. he is that important to the team.

without tmac THIS YEAR, houston is 8-7.
with tmac THIS YEAR, houston is 37-14 (including 3-4 losses when he left b/c of an injury).
without yao THIS YEAR, houston is 10-0. (without yao last yr, they were 20-11 when the role players were not like this).

tmac has shown he can keep his team playing at a high level WITHOUT yao.

can paul, kobe do the same? i doubt it.

but again, i'm stating A CASE for tmac. i don't think he should win it either. but you shouldn't slight how HUGE team success is to winning an MVP.

if they take by individual stats, lebron should win it running away this year. i think he is the best player this yr (31, 8, 7 is amazing). but b/c of his team, he's not going to finish in the top 3 for MVP.

MVP - best player on a top 2-3 team
best player is completely different

Return to The General Board