Moderators: Kilroy, Danny Darko, TyCobb
Sofa King wrote:One thing about Vietnamese coffee shops, you get free internet, get to watch the Lakers play, smokers at every table, cute asian chicks wearing little to your imagination... did I mention I get to watch the Lakers?
milesfides wrote:You mean the thing with the preacher? I think that was pretty weak too. Maybe it was bad casting, isn't he the emo kid from Little Miss Raja Bell?
I still thought the themes were strong enough to come through. The people I watched it with generally thought the movie was an allegory representing the oil industry and evangelical Christianity in America. All political. I guess, but knowing that it was a PTA movie, I viewed it on a much more personal level.
Even from the beginning, there was this battle between man and earth. It's a struggle. The movie starts with him hammering away at earth, and by the end, he's hammering away at somebody's head. When man finds something of worth, the stakes are raised, and I saw a broader theme, the battle for power and control, of not only the earth, but of other men.
But the pivotal moment, his son getting hurt when the oil drill hits the motherload, DDL is confronted with the fact that he doesn't have ultimate control in life, and moreover, his own greed drove a wedge between him and his son, which ultimately destroys him. DDL responds in a very natural way, by emptily continuing his pursuit for more oil, and by suppressing guilt. Natural, but it erodes his humanity, and drives away his son further away from him.
*Sidenote - isn't that indicative of the irony in life? Workaholic dads, who say they're working for their children, yet neglect and/or abuse them. I think PTA is revealing a much darker truth, that in reality, dads or parents might not love their children as much as they value their job, work, wealth, accomplishments.
Where does the preacher come in? A struggle for power. DDL sees him as just a money-grubbing charlatan that has to be tolerated only out of necessity - DDL views him as an annoying gnat. But after his son is injured, suddenly the preacher is empowered by what he believes was an act of God, which is a threat to DDL's invulnerable facade, that powers exist beyond DDL's control, powers that are punishing him for his sins. I think this infuriates DDL, but his greed is powerful enough for him to be humiliated by the preacher, and at the same time, I think there's underlying guilt that allows himself to be punished and abused - all in that funny/scary baptism scene.
And I think at the end, DDL, all but destroyed by this guilt, puts the question to the preacher: is God real? Exposing the preacher's phoniness re-awakens DDL's fury, and as he kills the preacher, presumably for several reasons, getting revenge for his past humiliation at the hands of a fraud, and by killing the phony preacher, killing the notion that God exists, killing his guilt.
man v. nature, man v. man, man v. God, man v. self
all in one movie, all simultaneously.
To me, the emotions were real, something that PTA does really well, but I thought his moral to the story was pretty powerfully illustrated:
We obsess about power and wealth, but in the process, our desires might result in doing bad things, particularly to other people and ourselves. And while we might succeed and gain power in this life, the sins or immoral acts that we committed along that process will ultimately destroy our souls, whether through guilt and/or anger. Can religion save us? In PTA's estimation, through fake preachers, no.
Was it an attack on Christianity and religion? Some Christians think so, but I don't. Christians or Christian preachers are just as human as everybody else, and deal with their own sins, and there are many parallels between the preacher and DDL. Ultimately, the preacher was just as materialistic as DDL, and ironically, DDL becomes something like the wrath of God as the preacher denies his religion. The preacher is his own character in the movie, not a plot device. He meets his bloody end due to his own particular sins.
I think PTA is making a very strong statement about human nature, the obsession with wealth and power, the corruption that ensues, and the destruction that is inevitably met. From an oil tycoon to a phony preacher, there will be a reckoning.
It's interesting that DDL ends the movie, bloody, with "I'm finished." That mirrors Jesus' last words, "It is finished." I think that was deliberate - obvious to me, but nobody in my group saw it.
I thought the parallels were obvious: Jesus, whose work was to die in order to raise mankind. On the other hand, murder is in the heart of man, that's his lot in life, rising by destroying. Man is by nature an enemy of God.
Still, I thought the actor's screen presence was not strong enough to match up with DDL. He wasn't much of an adversary, although he's set up as one.
Definitely worthy of being best picture, imo. What did you guys think of it?
milesfides wrote:-= original quote snipped =-
It does kind of play out that way, doesn't it. I'm wondering if other posters ignore this thread, or read it and choose not to post.
milesfides wrote:
It does kind of play out that way, doesn't it. I'm wondering if other posters ignore this thread, or read it and choose not to post.
Sofa King wrote:One thing about Vietnamese coffee shops, you get free internet, get to watch the Lakers play, smokers at every table, cute asian chicks wearing little to your imagination... did I mention I get to watch the Lakers?
TonyMontana wrote:-= original quote snipped =-
Thank you for the love Mangs ......
Iam redoing my droptop too .
I actually have to run to the bodyshop and give them the go ahead on the paint .
Im waiting for my twin screw supercharger coming from Norway , and I just had my interior finished yesterday .
So its all coming together soon for the summer ..
But thanks again for the Love Mangs....
Sedition wrote:-= original quote snipped =-
Tony, that VeeDub is totally you. Looks like a hippie shag wagon. We're going to need updates on the restorations.
hermes wrote:-= original quote snipped =-
tony what color is it going to be
Phil_2.0 wrote:-= original quote snipped =-
Yo Mang, I got an old 1990 190E benz sitting in my garage.. what can you do to it ?
TonyMontana wrote:Come now .... Phil .
Anything you need Mang ....
Service , parts etc ....
Is it a 2.3 or a 2.6 ... 4 or 6 cylinder .
Ill hook it up Mang ...
Oh ya , by the way , the 6th is a go .....
— Mags Phil_2.0 wrote:-= original quote snipped =-
Right on, I will be there too... I got book my flight still.
