Time To See Or Showcase J.J. Redick

[mhectorgato]

Yes mhectorgato I have seen your other posts and their is nothing involving logic with any of them just what kind of reaction you can get from other people who post here.

Funny you seemed to agree with my logic when I was "debating" with maginno.

I remember when you were warned because of your posts.

link?

I don't recall being ever given a public warning or a PM from a mod regarding my posts. I've been given friendly suggestions, but never a warning.

I expect you to provide proof or print a retraction.

Yes SVG praised Redick about his play this past summer, and yet some will say it was just summer league that doesn't count. Well to those that say that lets see you out on those same courts in the summer and see how you play.

How we would perform against summer league competition is meaningless. How JJ performs against scrubs (in the relative sense), and I yes I am including Diener in that list , means nothing.

How JJ performs against other NBA players is what counts.

Just aleZ, SVG hasn't seen enough NBA potential (within our style and roster) to give him consistent and meaningful playing time.

[3-Pt_Shooter]

Well, I definitely don't agree with the comment about the NBA summer league meaning nothing. Every summer league is a chance for rookies and other rising young stars to showcase their talent. And while J.J. wouldn't be playing against the NBA's top talent, he is still going against some very talented and athletic guys.

Anyway - without drawing too many redick-ulous comparisons here - I remember when Kobe was just a rookie playing in the summer leagues. Kobe drew all kinds of praise for his future as a potential NBA star. But J.J. shows off his ability and gets nothing. Sound fair to you?

No one can excel in the NBA or any other sport, sitting on the bench. J.J. is capable of putting up decent numbers, night after night, but not by playing a minute here and there, or not playing at all.

[J-Mezzy]

I'm goig to side with Hector and Alez here. I don't even know where these "pushing buttons" allegations came from, they are 2 of our finest posters.

[mhectorgato]

Well, I definitely don't agree with the comment about the NBA summer league meaning nothing. Every summer league is a chance for rookies and other rising young stars to showcase their talent. And while J.J. wouldn't be playing against the NBA's top talent, he is still going against some very talented and athletic guys.

Anyway - without drawing too many redick-ulous comparisons here - I remember when Kobe was just a rookie playing in the summer leagues. Kobe drew all kinds of praise for his future as a potential NBA star. But J.J. shows off his ability and gets nothing. Sound fair to you?

No one can excel in the NBA or any other sport, sitting on the bench. J.J. is capable of putting up decent numbers, night after night, but not by playing a minute here and there, or not playing at all.

So JJ to Kobe is not a redick-ulous comparison?

BTW - Didn't Diener go off in the summer leagues, only to ride the bench for us last season?

BTW2 - Thanks Mr. Mezzy.

[3-Pt_Shooter]

No, no... you totally missed my point. If the NBA summer league is an indicator of how good a guy like Kobe could become -- well then -- it also has to be the same for a player like J.J. Yeah, there is no way J.J. compares to Kobe. But that is why I've used names like Mullin, Hodges, Paxton, Kerr, etc.

Ok, maybe I don't get how it works in professional sports, but doesn't it make sense that if you draft a talented player high in the first round you should play him when he's healthy? Why draft the most prolific three-point shooter in NCAA history and pay him 4-5 million/year just to ride the pine?

Too bad Phil Jackson wasn't the coach in Orlando. He certainly knows how to get the most out of his bench and how to develop the younger players on the team.

[mhectorgato]

No, no... you totally missed my point. If the NBA summer league is an indicator of how good a guy like Kobe could become -- well then -- it also has to be the same for a player like J.J. Yeah, there is no way J.J. compares to Kobe. But that is why I've used names like Mullin, Hodges, Paxton, Kerr, etc.

Ok, maybe I don't get how it works in professional sports, but doesn't it make sense that if you draft a talented player high in the first round you should play him when he's healthy? Why draft the most prolific three-point shooter in NCAA history and pay him 4-5 million/year just to ride the pine?

Too bad Phil Jackson wasn't the coach in Orlando. He certainly knows how to get the most out of his bench and how to develop the younger players on the team.

The only logical reason I can think of is fit.

JJ may just not fit our schemes and styles. As others have mentioned, JJ is not a create your own shot type of guy for the most part - well at least from what we've seen. Whereas the players before him in the rotation are able to do so.

But this is the 2nd head coach not to play him much - not that BHill was much of a head coach. Some players just don't translate as well to the college game - look at another Dukie - Bobby Hurley.

[craig01]

No, no... you totally missed my point. If the NBA summer league is an indicator of how good a guy like Kobe could become -- well then -- it also has to be the same for a player like J.J. Yeah, there is no way J.J. compares to Kobe. But that is why I've used names like Mullin, Hodges, Paxton, Kerr, etc.

Ok, maybe I don't get how it works in professional sports, but doesn't it make sense that if you draft a talented player high in the first round you should play him when he's healthy? Why draft the most prolific three-point shooter in NCAA history and pay him 4-5 million/year just to ride the pine?

Too bad Phil Jackson wasn't the coach in Orlando. He certainly knows how to get the most out of his bench and how to develop the younger players on the team.

NCAA Div 1 Bball is nowhere near the NBA regardless of a players past accomplishments.

As for summer league stars, there are hundreds of players that have put up nice stats and had an athletic upside, but never amounted to much in the NBA.

Doc Rivers, during his last summer here fell in love with Britten Johnson. The guy shot lights out, had tons of energy, and won his way into the opening day lineup as a starter. That lasted 1 or 2 games, and was out of the league shortly after. Doc was fired early that season for stupid personnel moves more than anything else.

Redick is an unknown. His future IMO, definitely, is in a limited capacity somewhere.

[3-Pt_Shooter]

Fit? Yeah, I suppose thats probably true. But given that Howard is an absolute beast down by the basket and frequently draws double-teams wouldn't make sense to have a guy like Redick out on the floor?

And, I don't think Bobby Hurley is a very good example of a former Duke player's game that doesn't translate to the pro game. He only played in 19 games (his rookie season) before suffering life-threatening injuries in a very severe car accident. In those 19 contests he averaged 26-minutes, 7-points and 6-assists per game. Those stats aren't too shabby...

[BassMaster]

Fit? Yeah, I suppose thats probably true. But given that Howard is an absolute beast down by the basket and frequently draws double-teams wouldn't make sense to have a guy like Redick out on the floor?

And, I don't think Bobby Hurley is a very good example of a former Duke player's game that doesn't translate to the pro game. He only played in 19 games (his rookie season) before suffering life-threatening injuries in a very severe car accident. In those 19 contests he averaged 26-minutes, 7-points and 6-assists per game. Those stats aren't too shabby...

You will find that when people want to put down former Duke players they will bring up players like Hurley which you are right is a poor example. Lets see here is a better example Battier was just considered a good support player first he got a new team then they fired Van Gundy and now he is considered a very good player. Oh yea everyone he is a former Duke Player. Just an example.

In response to mhectorgato that other poster was attacking you period that was not acceptable. but you both kept at it. And I remember you saying that you were sorry to the moderator as did the other poster. Who BTW has not been back here.
So yes I still see you that explains your logic all of that is making you very

[3-Pt_Shooter]

Craig, you have a good point. NCAA Division I Hoops doesn't compare to professional basketball and that summer league ball has decidedly less skilled players than their counterparts in the NBA.

But hear me out on this one... I don't care how good (or great) a player is, he's not going to be able to prove it sitting on the bench. Give J.J. some real screens, and a real opportunity to get out there and play consistent minutes and he'll shine. What does Orlando have to lose?

And, for that bit about Redick being an unknown, he's only an "unknown" because the Magic organization doesn't have a clear plan for their future. Its almost like they're just making it up as they go. They want guys who play good defense, but they trade Ariza to LA. They have one of the most dominant post players in the league who gets double-teamed on a regular basis, but they don't surround him with perimeter players. Oh well...

If J.J. doesn't fit the team's style then trade him or cut him loose. Don't let a good young talent just languish on the bench.

[mhectorgato]

Fit? Yeah, I suppose thats probably true. But given that Howard is an absolute beast down by the basket and frequently draws double-teams wouldn't make sense to have a guy like Redick out on the floor?

We have Hedo, Dooling, Lewis, Bogans, Evans, Cook, etc already in the roatation. All of these provide outside shooting - to varying abilities - and things besides what JJ offers.

Our SGs are better defenders. The other big guys, well have the height that JJ doesn't have (not that he's short by any means).

Perhaps he was a slasher as well as a shooter, he might have more unique skillset for the team.

And, I don't think Bobby Hurley is a very good example of a former Duke player's game that doesn't translate to the pro game. He only played in 19 games (his rookie season) before suffering life-threatening injuries in a very severe car accident. In those 19 contests he averaged 26-minutes, 7-points and 6-assists per game. Those stats aren't too shabby...

Guess that was a poor example, but there have been quite a few others who have thrived in NCAA environment but couldn't handle the NBA game.

I'm not saying that JJ is definitely in this category, just offering another reason why perhaps he's not been used very much.

[mhectorgato]

In response to mhectorgato that other poster was attacking you period that was not acceptable. but you both kept at it. And I remember you saying that you were sorry to the moderator as did the other poster. Who BTW has not been back here.

I felt bad for bringing down the quality level of the board. I felt that I should have handled the situation better.

So how is this a warning that you claimed I received?

I remember when you were warned because of your posts.

I demand a retraction.

[mhectorgato]

If J.J. doesn't fit the team's style then trade him or cut him loose. Don't let a good young talent just languish on the bench.

Which is why I was frustrated by the talk (smokescreen or not) by Otis saying that he was not willing to trade him at the deadline. It simply made no sense what so ever.

[3-Pt_Shooter]

If the Magic front office would rather go with those guys you mentioned, then more power to them... I just think that if they're not going to give him a real chance to play then they should let Redick go and get a another player in his place -- say a power forward that wants to play defense.

All J.J. does is play hard on both sides of the court. And if J.J. is on the court, it is without a doubt that he is in range.

[craig01]

But hear me out on this one... I don't care how good (or great) a player is, he's not going to be able to prove it sitting on the bench. Give J.J. some real screens, and a real opportunity to get out there and play consistent minutes and he'll shine. What does Orlando have to lose?


If J.J. doesn't fit the team's style then trade him or cut him loose. Don't let a good young talent just languish on the bench.

But that's the problem in a nutshell. Having watched Redick here (in a very limited amount of time like everyone else, mind you), his primary problem IMO, isn't his defense, but is his lack of separation from the defense while playing on offense.

NBA teams don't typically run screens for 4th or 5th options on offense. With that being the case, then Redick offers nothing new that the Magic don't already have. And in Bogans case, a stronger NBA type body complements a small and slow backcourt.

Clearly, his role is miscast in Orlando......and he'll need to find another team that can willingly support him on offense. When that happens, he'll be productive. If not, then he'll be making more shooting videos down the road.

I am as disappointed as anyone in how this has turned out. People have assumed that there have been personality conflicts betwen Redick, Hill, and SVG. I doubt that is the case at all.

I mean really, in the NBA, most of the meat head personalities always remain on the floor because they offer an advantage to the coach willing to deal with the player. Both coaches ignoring Redick as a player tells me that Redick, on this team, just doesn't bring enough of what the team needs in order to play.

it's too bad too.

[3-Pt_Shooter]

I know what you're saying and agree with your basic point. But there are many teams (such as the Pistons) who utilize a lot of screens in their offense. Billups and Hamilton always seem to consistently get open looks at the basket.

I think its just the brain-dead coaching of Brian Hill and SVG. That would explain why Hill was fired and is now an assistant on the NJ Nets bench, and why Shaquille O'Neal wanted SVG out of Miami.

[mhectorgato]

I know what you're saying and agree with your basic point. But there are many teams (such as the Pistons) who utilize a lot of screens in their offense. Billups and Hamilton always seem to consistently get open looks at the basket.

Are you saying that we should give JJ's as much respect as 2 all-stars?

They are starters and core players on the team. Therefore it makes sense that they craft their offense to make the play at their optimal performance.

JJ as it stands now is not a rotation player. As such we won't craft the offense to suit him.

The coach has crafted an offense that scores the 6th most points in the league. If we were offensively challenged, then perhaps you might have an inkling of an argument.

I think its just the brain-dead coaching of Brian Hill and SVG. That would explain why Hill was fired and is now an assistant on the NJ Nets bench, and why Shaquille O'Neal wanted SVG out of Miami.

The same SVG who's taken a team that went 40-42 last season and now has the first winning season in about 4 years?

The same SVG that will likely help us to the first Division championship since the 90s?

This is exactly like what aleZ was saying - it's starting to mirror the Darko situation, it's anyone's but JJ's fault.

[craig01]

I know what you're saying and agree with your basic point. But there are many teams (such as the Pistons) who utilize a lot of screens in their offense. Billups and Hamilton always seem to consistently get open looks at the basket.

I think its just the brain-dead coaching of Brian Hill and SVG. That would explain why Hill was fired and is now an assistant on the NJ Nets bench, and why Shaquille O'Neal wanted SVG out of Miami.

That's because they are both able to create separation from their defenders. Hamilton does with non stop motion, and Billups does it off the dribble.

Sure, the Pistons utilize a lot of screens as does Utah and many others. Do you think that Utah ran screens for Gordon Giricek (on the back end of their rotation) before he was traded? Or Detroit runs screens for Lindsey Hunter when he's healthy? The answer is no.

So which primary offensive player is going to set screens for what would be the last option? Hedo? Lewis? Howard?

Again, I'd love to see Redick play regularly with my own eyes so that I can validate what my gut instinct is telling me.

[BassMaster]

I know what you're saying and agree with your basic point. But there are many teams (such as the Pistons) who utilize a lot of screens in their offense. Billups and Hamilton always seem to consistently get open looks at the basket.

I think its just the brain-dead coaching of Brian Hill and SVG. That would explain why Hill was fired and is now an assistant on the NJ Nets bench, and why Shaquille O'Neal wanted SVG out of Miami.

Great coaching by the Pistons opens up plays for Billups and Hamilton not like someone else posted that they created the opening themselves. Setting up mutiple screens opens the floor for both of these players.
I have watched how screens are setup with the Magic and none of the players do a very good job. In fact Lewis gets called too often for moving screens he forgets to stay still to block the opposing player and he isn't the only one. This kind of play is taught in college and remember Lewis skipped that part as well as Howard and neither are great providing screens.
That much said a good coach can train his team so that they do it correct, and so far SVG doesn't seem to think that this is very important. Well the Raptors and Philly have both killed us with this tactic and opened up their three point shooters.
And yes I will answer that Redick did not do it tonight, but then neither did Evans as well. Bogans shoot better, but couldn't hit his freethrows.

[MagicNolesFSU]

JJ redick just sucks at the NBA level. Barley even gets his shot off. Just trade him for a late `1st rounder...kuz hes trash.