Time To See Or Showcase J.J. Redick

[aleZ]

lol, this is truly Darko lovers part deux: the more this thread goes on, the more a player sucks. I'd say lock this one before JJ goes on a endless series of 0-5 shooting nights and he's sent down to the NBDL.

[MagicNolesFSU]

The NBDL is where he should be anyway.

[BassMaster]

[quote="lovehoops01"][/quote]

Very nice post too bad the next two posts by others that can be ignored were not intelligent just more Redick bashing with nothing to add to this topic.
It should prove interesting to see how the team plays without Hedo the next (praying right now) two weeks. We all know that they can play well without Nelson.
I agree that with Battie playing JJ has a better chance to play because Battie is alot more defense then offense and he will help Howard with the offensive as well as defensive boards getting the Magic more fast breaks.

[aleZ]

Very nice post too bad the next two posts by others that can be ignored

You jinx JJ man, please stop it

[maginno]

i think i saw enough of him this evening...

Well by that rationale you must have seen enough of Evans too. You must expect a lot of rust after sitting what? two three weeks? Only some consecutive games with minutes is going to tell you anything.

[maginno]

-= original quote snipped =-


I said that the players before JJ in the rotation offer more than he does.

Impossible to know since nothing can be offered on the bench. Stan is doing what all coaches with great expectations from media,fans and their organizations do - if it aint broke don't fix it. Right now a player ahead of JJ would have to stink terribly for Stan to tinker. Bogans offering more? Many a night he offers little or nothing. If we were losing and Stan felt he had to tinker JJ would probably be in there alot more.

[theTHIEF]

-= original quote snipped =-



Well by that rationale you must have seen enough of Evans too. You must expect a lot of rust after sitting what? two three weeks? Only some consecutive games with minutes is going to tell you anything.

blah blah blah blah

[spinedoc]

I think we have seen enough of JJ to draw some conclusions. Its not like we are that much in the dark here. He is a very decent offensive talent, no doubt. He definitely has the stroke at this level. His passing is good too, especially the cross court pass. He does struggle some with the entry pass into the post because of his height, much like Nelson does, but that should be expected. I can't fault him so much for that aspect. He also has a real nice dribble and sidestep to create space for his shot. I can't fault his offensive game that much at all, and I can see why we drafted him because of it.

However, the defensive part of his game is down right terrible. Maybe he can learn better technique to overcome that, but I don't think so. He is getting over-matched no matter who he's guarding. Never mind the Kobe's of the league, he is getting murdered by much lesser opponents. Unless he moves to pg, I don't see him making a big impact in this league. Also, bringing up the lack of team defense is a non-issue imo. Teams will use him against us by using picks to create a greater mismatch or just isolating him and putting him out on an island. From what I've seen so far, his deficits are greater than his assets. I can understand him not getting playing time behind premier players, but not being able to crack the rotation of Evans, Bogans, and Dooling does not help his resume at all. Its still too early for the bust tag, but I see giant holes in his game at this level.

[sportsrock37]

First of all sportsrock, that's a pretty big stretch to say that these great shooters were successful only because they had great defenders playing by their side.

I didn't mean it like that. I meant the reason why they weren't a defensive liability was because they had quality defender playing alongside them. So that allowed the coach to keep them in the game longer than we could. That and they were the #3 scoring option. JJ doesn't have anyone to play alongside other than Dooling that makes him not a defensive liability and Dooling can't guard the bigger SG's of the league. With Dwight, Turk, and Shard he won't be the #3 scoring option.

Like I said before, great teams will play great team defense, its not dependent on 1 or 2 guys. Its about getting the whole team to buy in to a defensive mindset.

Which is tough when you have your highest paid player playing out of position. Once we get a legit PF, I expect JJ's PT to go up(assuming we don't keep Bogans), because his defensive flaws wouldn't be so apparent.

Hmmm... no scoring from your shooting guard? That makes perfect sense. On great teams, all players are used in the offensive scheme... its a thing called balanced scoring. You know, a motion/screening offense doesn't cater to any one player. It actually will open up opportunities for every player on the floor. Also, if a team can get a significant scoring boost from their bench it gives them a greater advantage in the playoffs. The Magic rank 2nd to last in this category.

When you have Turkoglu, Shard, Dwight as your top 3 scoring options all in your frontcourt you need some people that do the dirty things. Then add in Jameer Nelson not really being capable of doing the dirty things we need our SG to be the 5th option. They can score if needed, but their primary focus is on defense, rebounding, hustle, and the little things that help a team win. Mo Evans and Keith Bogans both fit that category.

The reason why our bench production is so low is because we have Dwight, Shard, and Turk all avg over 37 mpg(Turk is the lowest at 37.3, Shard with 38.6 and Dwight with 38.3). That means there's only 30 mins in the game where at least 1 of them is sitting out and most of the time we have 2 of these guys in the game. That doesn't leave many opportunities for the bench players to play. Not to mention Jameer gets close to 30 mins(with 28) and Mo Evans has been getting close to 30 lately. That doesn't leave much opportunity for bench production.

Okay. So, what about Kerr, Paxton, and Hodges? None of those guys were much taller than 6-2. J.J. is 6-4 and can get his shot off no problem. The issue here is not how tall a shooter is or if he plays with a great defensive player. The guy has to be given a chance to succeed or fail. So far he has not failed... but he has shown some success in the very limited amount of playing time he has received the last two seasons.

Steve Kerr avg 17 mpg for his career. While he was a damn good shooter and a damn good role player, he wasn't more than that. Paxson avg 3.6 apg and less than a TO for his career, so he did other things that helped a team win. Hodges is the best comparison for JJ, he has a low assist, good scorer, 21.7 mpg. Not to mention they all played in a different era where there were athletic wings, but I would argue that they were nowhere near as athletic as todays wings are.

Last night he AGAIN proved that he can't possibly help a team out if he isn't shooting well. When scoring is not a need, I don't really understand why you would play him because he does virtually nothing else other than shoot.

[KnightChris]

Why draft the most prolific three-point shooter in NCAA history and pay him 4-5 million/year just to ride the pine?

Pretty sure we only pay him about $2 million.

-Chris

[magicmamma]

I thought JJ played very good defense against Ginobili in the second quarter. I wasn't the only one who thought so, since Dwight mentioned "very good defensive play by JJ" in his post-game interview. SVG liked his performance enough to bring him back in the 3rd. Yes, that was a disaster, but JJ was in one of the most "redickulous" lineups SVG has put on the floor. Nobody produced.

I think the ideal situation for JJ on this team is if we got a back-up PG who is a good distributor and a good defender but doesn't have to be a scorer. Then we have a good partner for JJ, who can fire away. Right now we have a backup pg who can distribute (even if he doesn't) but who makes JJ look like a defensive specialist, and one who can defend, but can't run an offense. And both are pretty good shooters.

[TooNice00]

JJ redick straight up sucks. The magic could give him away, although wasteful, i really wouldn't care. The guys isn't built for this team or the nba. To be useful Redick is someone you have to build an offensive system around and he isn't good enough to formulate such a system that rip hamilton and reggie miller used. Like people have been metioning this team needs a shane battier type at the SG position however i think unlike battier he has to be relatively athletic. Someone who plays good individual and team defense. Provides energy and does the little things to help a team win. Redick provides none of this. I'd trade him on draft day for a team that is stupid enough as us and is enamored by his shooting ability.

[mhectorgato]

JJ redick straight up sucks. The magic could give him away, although wasteful, i really wouldn't care. The guys isn't built for this team or the nba. To be useful Redick is someone you have to build an offensive system around and he isn't good enough to formulate such a system that rip hamilton and reggie miller used. Like people have been metioning this team needs a shane battier type at the SG position however i think unlike battier he has to be relatively athletic. Someone who plays good individual and team defense. Provides energy and does the little things to help a team win. Redick provides none of this. I'd trade him on draft day for a team that is stupid enough as us and is enamored by his shooting ability.

Sounds like you're describing Doug Christie ...

[Da big3]

i thought the guy was injured...............

[3-Pt_Shooter]

JJ redick straight up sucks. The magic could give him away, although wasteful, i really wouldn't care. The guys isn't built for this team or the nba. To be useful Redick is someone you have to build an offensive system around and he isn't good enough to formulate such a system that rip hamilton and reggie miller used. Like people have been metioning this team needs a shane battier type at the SG position however i think unlike battier he has to be relatively athletic. Someone who plays good individual and team defense. Provides energy and does the little things to help a team win. Redick provides none of this. I'd trade him on draft day for a team that is stupid enough as us and is enamored by his shooting ability.

Wow... that's a pretty bold statement! Watch this video and try to tell me again that J.J. sucks.

[/url]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qXEXmKz-94g

Granted, he isn't a premier player in the NBA - heck he might not even be a starter. But the boy can definitely play. And, what most people do is focus on is his shot. If its not falling regularly then people want to say that he isn't good enough to be in the NBA... well, that is simply not true. He does pass well and makes good decisions on the court, which means that J.J. isn't going to be a liability out there. He just needs consistent playing time to show his true worth. Nobody can convince me that he is getting a fair deal in Orlando.

Sorry KnightChris, I was wrong... he is getting closer to 3-million a year.

[TooNice00]

Wow... that's a pretty bold statement! Watch this video and try to tell me again that J.J. sucks.

[/url]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qXEXmKz-94g

Granted, he isn't a premier player in the NBA - heck he might not even be a starter. But the boy can definitely play. And, what most people do is focus on is his shot. If its not falling regularly then people want to say that he isn't good enough to be in the NBA... well, that is simply not true. He does pass well and makes good decisions on the court, which means that J.J. isn't going to be a liability out there. He just needs consistent playing time to show his true worth. Nobody can convince me that he is getting a fair deal in Orlando.

Sorry KnightChris, I was wrong... he is getting closer to 3-million a year.

Your youtube video is from college which is coming up on two years ago. All i know is redick hasn't done much in the nba. He hasn't looked very good either but he has had his moments. For example, against the spurs. However i wouldn't miss him if he was traded or practically given away for a 2nd round pick. Then again i don't see what he does in practice everyday or anything. I truly hope i eat my words and he becomes a good, great, or even average role player because it would be a huge plus to the magic. I'll admit you can't say enough about how good redicks shooting is and i believe he has that rare ability in crunch time of making big shots. From what i have seen if you don't give redick the chance to score he is essentially useless and teams love to exploit redick on the defensive end by posting him up or even running isos. And for as weak as our backcourt is proclaimed to be i find it odd that redick gets no playing time if we was of any value. However, we will find out orlandos plans this summer for redick.

[MagicNolesFSU]

A two year old video of redick in college? Wow, thats all you could muster up......

[craig01]

Show the video of the Duke vs LSU game during the NCAA tournament in Redick's senior year.

That should have been a huge warning sign.

Again, I am not bashing Redick either, and in fact want him to succeed here, but he's going to need help to be productive at this stage in his career.

[maginno]

I thought JJ played very good defense against Ginobili in the second quarter. I wasn't the only one who thought so, since Dwight mentioned "very good defensive play by JJ" in his post-game interview.

Yep. There has been signs of improvement which is why Snake's analysis doesn't hold water. No ones analysis can hold any. theres not enough time to make any statement stick for JJ. Given Bhill this is like his rookie season. he doesn't fit in here thats about all we can say with certainty. He has a reputation for being poor at defense so until he is spectacular at it or above par for a long time he isn't going to convince anyone he can get better.

[MagicNolesFSU]

Yeah bro TWO coaches both are holding JJ back because of personal bias. BOTH of them...lets be real