End of an Era---Chris Webber Memories Thread

[Da HomeTeam]

If he had of just stayed Chris Webber instead of C-Webb he would've been a much better player. He tried to be too cool that plus the myriad injuries killed his career.

But that was my man. C-Murder is what we used to call him. Him, Rod, and Juwan = 3/5. That series verse the bulls was CLASSIC. I still have the poster CWebb.com and Juwana go to the playoffs.

Look 'em up on Youtube. MJ dropped 55 i think in the second game. WHEW then deamed us the "team of the future"

[long suffrin' boulez fan]

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look at a guy like Chris Mullin who made the HOF. You're telling me he was better or impacted the game like Chris? Nope.

I'm not sure I would have voted for Mullin either... although his participation on the dream team surely helped his profile. I'm not saying Webber wasn't a fabulous player, but I don't rank him up there with the best bigs to ever play the game. His mid range game was really good, but that doesn't separate him from a lot of players (Brad Miller for one), his passing was very good, but perhaps not HOF good.

I guess the gist of my post was that, had he developed a reliable post game, he might be a lock. He had such ability: great hands, explosively quick leaping capabilities, great speed up and down the court for someone his size, excellent vision and unselfishness. As a Bullets/Wiz fan, I watched eagerly each preseason to see what low post move he had added to his repetoire over the summer and I never saw it.

[queridiculo]

Outside of Michael Jordan, I don't think I've ever seen a player in person who had left me more in awe of his talents than Chris Webber in 1997/98. The guy was jaw dropping amazingly talented.

His alley oop finishes, behind the back passes, drives to the hoop etc were amazing to watch.

Webber was quite possibly the most gifted power forward the NBA has seen to date. God blessed him with everything but common sense and the drive that puts the super stars on that next level.

[dobrojim]

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Pre-TO, I take it.

No. That would be post TO.

Just reporting what I'm told.

[dobrojim]

BTW- as for best passing big man, how 'bout Wilt?
He led the league in assists one year.

most talented PF? How can you possibly argue that
he was better ie more talented, than Elbows Malone
aka the Mailman. How many MVPs did Webber win?

Yes he wowed us with his skills. Unbelievable dunker,
great passer. But also flawed in the mental aspects of
the game, not just the famous TO in the NCAA champ
game, but through much of his tenure with the Bullets.

[Kanyewest]

BTW- as for best passing big man, how 'bout Wilt?
He led the league in assists one year.

most talented PF? How can you possibly argue that
he was better ie more talented, than Elbows Malone
aka the Mailman. How many MVPs did Webber win?

Yes he wowed us with his skills. Unbelievable dunker,
great passer. But also flawed in the mental aspects of
the game, not just the famous TO in the NCAA champ
game, but through much of his tenure with the Bullets.

While Chris Webber is certainly talented, he was not the most gifted player ever. He was not imposing with his size like Shaq or Tim Duncan. He did not have the durability of a Kevin Garnett or Karl Malone. I bet he was not even as strong as Charles Barkley. And it's not like Webber never lived up to his potential and was a bust like Kwame Brown or Michael Olowakandi. He improved significantly when he left the Wizards and was a top 10 player from 1999-2003. He just was never the same player after the knee injury in 2003.

It's funny you bring up Karl Malone. Karl Malone has committed the most turnovers committed by a single player in NBA history. I don't think he was that strong mentally but he had John Stockton to bail him out much his entire like Chris Webber had Mike Bibby for only a few years in his prime.

People in Washington thought Webber was an underachiever but in reality it were his teammates who were overrated. The franchise and many of the fans gave up on him too soon. He proved his worth in Sacramento by almost winning a title against the Lakers who were one of the greatest dynasties ever.

[TheKingOfVa360]

Great player and future Hall of Famer.

[Higga]

I've always liked C Webb. He'll basically go down as the Lavar Arrington of the Wizards to me. Great upside but injuries and mishaps with management(well in Webber's case more so teammates)led to him never really fulfilling his potential with us.

I don't really see him as a HOF-er though.

[dobrojim]

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While Chris Webber is certainly talented, he was not the most gifted player ever. He was not imposing with his size like Shaq or Tim Duncan. He did not have the durability of a Kevin Garnett or Karl Malone. I bet he was not even as strong as Charles Barkley. And it's not like Webber never lived up to his potential and was a bust like Kwame Brown or Michael Olowakandi. He improved significantly when he left the Wizards and was a top 10 player from 1999-2003. He just was never the same player after the knee injury in 2003.

It's funny you bring up Karl Malone. Karl Malone has committed the most turnovers committed by a single player in NBA history. I don't think he was that strong mentally but he had John Stockton to bail him out much his entire like Chris Webber had Mike Bibby for only a few years in his prime.

People in Washington thought Webber was an underachiever but in reality it were his teammates who were overrated. The franchise and many of the fans gave up on him too soon. He proved his worth in Sacramento by almost winning a title against the Lakers who were one of the greatest dynasties ever.

just to be clear, I didn't say he was the most gifted.

as for Malone's TOs, OK, sure. But other than the lack of a 3 pt
shot which you don't particularly look for in your PF, Malone was
better at everything that IS important for a PF than Webber ie
passing is not a key PF skill although it's always nice in any player.
Malone is second all time in scoring, and I'm sure ranks very
high in career rebounds as well. I didn't like him and his dirty
play, but he was the best PF of his day hands down.

It's fair to say that Webber was held back by inferior teammates
but dang, not to even make the playoffs except for one time while
he was here.

As for his "maturation", I'm not sure what to say. I do have it on
very good authority that what got Webber traded was his public
response to Wes (then GM) following the Potomac party sex assault
allegation when he said "Wes wasn't there" totally missing the point
that neither should he have been. They ended up missing the playoffs
by one game and the incident happened at the same time as a
home court loss to DEN, who had not won a road game that year.
As team leader, you have to be accountable for things like that.
Can anyone imagine a similar situation where Jamison would
be involved?

[Kanyewest]

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While Chris Webber is certainly talented, he was not the most gifted player ever. He was not imposing with his size like Shaq or Tim Duncan. He did not have the durability of a Kevin Garnett or Karl Malone. I bet he was not even as strong as Charles Barkley. And it's not like Webber never lived up to his potential and was a bust like Kwame Brown or Michael Olowakandi. He improved significantly when he left the Wizards and was a top 10 player from 1999-2003. He just was never the same player after the knee injury in 2003.

It's funny you bring up Karl Malone. Karl Malone has committed the most turnovers committed by a single player in NBA history. I don't think he was that strong mentally but he had John Stockton to bail him out much his entire like Chris Webber had Mike Bibby for only a few years in his prime.

People in Washington thought Webber was an underachiever but in reality it were his teammates who were overrated. The franchise and many of the fans gave up on him too soon. He proved his worth in Sacramento by almost winning a title against the Lakers who were one of the greatest dynasties ever.

just to be clear, I didn't say he was the most gifted.

as for Malone's TOs, OK, sure. But other than the lack of a 3 pt
shot which you don't particularly look for in your PF, Malone was
better at everything that IS important for a PF than Webber ie
passing is not a key PF skill although it's always nice in any player.
Malone is second all time in scoring, and I'm sure ranks very
high in career rebounds as well. I didn't like him and his dirty
play, but he was the best PF of his day hands down.

It's fair to say that Webber was held back by inferior teammates
but dang, not to even make the playoffs except for one time while
he was here.

As for his "maturation", I'm not sure what to say. I do have it on
very good authority that what got Webber traded was his public
response to Wes (then GM) following the Potomac party sex assault
allegation when he said "Wes wasn't there" totally missing the point
that neither should he have been. They ended up missing the playoffs
by one game and the incident happened at the same time as a
home court loss to DEN, who had not won a road game that year.
As team leader, you have to be accountable for things like that.
Can anyone imagine a similar situation where Jamison would
be involved?

For the Malone comparison, I was just pointing to how he had John Stockton at his side for his entire career. I already said earlier that Karl Malone was more gifted that Chris Webber right before that. Malone is the better player when it's all said and done, especially on both ends of the court; the only power forward clearly better than Malone is Tim Duncan. But having somebody like Stockton certainly helped Malone. And Webber would have been helped if he had a great point guard like that his entire career.

That story of Webber's departure just cements how bad the front office was. Even though the Wizards missed the playoffs by 1 game, it was not like missing the playoffs in today's Eastern Conference. They finished with a record of 42-40; the same record as the 2005-06 Wizards, who were the
5th seed. The Eastern Conference was much deeper and better than it is today.

Instead of a wait and see approach, the Wizards dealt Webber at his lowest value. Webber was the best player on the team. But even if the Wizards admitted that Webber was a mistake and wanted to rebuild, they should have started over and traded Webber for young players and picks. Instead, they trade for a 32 year old Mitch Richmond who had made the playoffs as many times as Chris Webber in the past 5 year. The Wizards and many of its fans overestimated the talent that Webber had around him in the first place. Webber in the meantime makes the playoffs with a Sacramento team that only had 27 wins the season before.

[mhd]

That team basically had a joruneyman in Calbert, an average NBA player in Howard, and a knucklehead (but really good) PG in Strickland. Webber should never have been traded.

[Induveca]

You guys are forgetting what he did to revitalize both a pathetic Washington franchise (horrible GM, horrible coaches), and then the revitalization he gave a then awful Sacramento franchise.

I had him for many years in my fantasy leagues, you can't deny 3-4 years of random 30/15 games, and a guaranteed 20/8 every single night during his prime.

The guy was a superstar. There are tons of players sitting in the HOF without a championship. Webber will make it....easily.

[penbeast0]

I think Webber's a Hall of Famer. He was one of the best in the game for several seasons until he hurt his knee. He played more than 30,000 minutes and nearly a double-double despite playing in one of the league's slowest-paced eras.

Yeah, his team never won a title, but which of his teams should have won? The only team that would have been favored was the 01-02 Kings, which led the league in efficiency differential that season. They lost a 7-game series in the Western Conference Finals to a Lakers team with Shaq-Kobe-Phil. The Kings that season had an efficiency differential of +7.9 -- the Lakers were +7.7. The "failure" there by the Kings was pretty small.

Individual accomplishments are pretty good. 5 All-Star games. 5 times All-NBA. Rookie of the Year. Total package production (scoring, rebounds, assists, blocks, solid number of steals for a forward), efficient offensive play pre-injury, very good defender. In an era rich with elite talent at his position, he was among the best.

Then look at some of the other guys already in. Webber belongs in the HoF.

I don't remember Webber as a very good defender. I don't remember Webber as a good defender. I remember Webber as a lazy defender who didn't like to fight hard to keep opposing post players out of their sweet spots and who would leave his man to go for questionable blocks and steals. He had great size and athleticism, he didn't have good defensive instincts or a work ethic.

Offensively, he had great tools and could shoot, superb passer. But again, he didn't want to bang down low. His basic fg% wasn't bad but he was far less effective than any other big man with comparable numbers I've ever seen because he would use his athleticism to avoid contact. Kevin or Nate will probably be able to pull the numbers on this but I don't know if there has ever been a consistent 20 point scoring big man who came close to shooting as few free throws as Chris Webber. He also had a well documented tendency to make bonehead decisions under pressure.

Finally, the HOF vote isn't about who is in the HOF; there are probably 15 PGs in the league now with better stats and talent than the PGs from the 1950s like Andy Phillups. It is about your competition. If it comes down to Webber and a player like Dikembe Mutumbo or Alonzo Mourning (to name two other big men at the end of their careers who are marginal candidates and who probably won't make it), I am voting for both over Webber.

[queridiculo]

I'm not sure why everybody is throwing a tissy over my remark that Webber was the most gifted PF.

To me there is a clear distinction between players that are gifted/talented and players that actually capitalize on those gifts through hard work and dedication.

Malone and Webber illustrate that point perfectly to me.

One maximized his potential while the other will forever be known for what could have been.

[Wizardspride]

I'm not sure why everybody is throwing a tissy over my remark that Webber was the most gifted PF.

I don't know why either because you very well
could be correct.

[dobrojim]

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I don't know why either because you very well
could be correct.

when you said

One maximized his potential while the other will forever be known for what could have been.

THAT was as true a statement on the comparison as could be made.

[Kanyewest]

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when you said

One maximized his potential while the other will forever be known for what could have been.

THAT was as true a statement on the comparison as could be made.

I would say Chris Webber lived up to his potential, but never in Washington DC. He became the best player on a top team in the NBA but just got a bit lucky running into Shaq and Kobe's Lakers. And HOF do not always win titles like Barkely, Malone, Stockton, and Ewing.Webber could never live up to the hype that Washington tried to spin here when they gave up too much to get him in the 1st place.

Players like Shawn Bradley, the number 2 selection in that same 1993 draft Webber was in, is someone who did not live up to his potential.

[hands11]

You guys are forgetting what he did to revitalize both a pathetic Washington franchise (horrible GM, horrible coaches), and then the revitalization he gave a then awful Sacramento franchise.

I had him for many years in my fantasy leagues, you can't deny 3-4 years of random 30/15 games, and a guaranteed 20/8 every single night during his prime.

The guy was a superstar. There are tons of players sitting in the HOF without a championship. Webber will make it....easily.

I hadn't chimed in because I had no idea this thread would live this long.

Well, since it still lives, I may as well drop a dime.

I could care less about Webber. He was a talented player but he won't make the hall. Why would he?

While here, he was an immature pot smoking kid. Abe didn't like what the kid was about so he was gone.

Then in SAC, the guy would post monster numbers all year then choke in the playoffs. I always thought he was a paper lion. Add to that he was injured all the time and that his team actually played well several times without him active.

In summary. Nice college career, then he choked.

Nice NBA career but not a hall of fame player.

To me, there is no comparison between Webber and Malone. The only reason Malone didn't get a title is the same reason all those top team didn't.... MJ wouldn't allow it.

There are players that make it to the HOF and then there are players like MJ, Wilt, Magic, Bird. These players are HOF ++

[dobrojim]

hijacking the thread re Malone for a moment

much as been said about how much Malone benefited
from playing with a PG like Stockton. I agree with that.
But I think it's also fair to say that Stockton probably
wouldn't have come close the numbers he did if he hadn't
played most of his career with a guy who so consistently
turned his passes into buckets. It was a very mutually beneficial
situation.

The other footnote about the pair is how many teams passed
on both of them when they were drafted. A lot of people justifiably
bemoan the infamous drafting of Kenny Green over Malone. But
there were lots of other teams that passed on Malone (and Stock)
as well. Both of them deserving of first ballot HOF status.

Webber? I'm not quite so sure about.

[Davekn]

Chris Weber is the Anti Derek Jeter. While Jeter's numbers are good but not great he will go to the Hall of Fame easily because he is the one guy you don't want to face in the 8th inning of a 1 run playoff game.

Weber, on the other hand, had good number but we all know that they were all a product of the first 44 minutes. When the game was on the line Weber stepped out of bounds. Period.