Official NBA Draft Lottery Discussion Thread II

[heat4life]

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Yes, Memphis has PGs, but are they really sold on Conley or anyone else for that matter?

I could see them trading Conley or any of their other PGs for a future pick.

Hmm, if you are Memphis, do you build around Conley and Beasley or Rose and a future 1st?

I would think Memphis would jump at the opportunity to get Beasley in G.Crackers scenario.

[jaseda510]

I think Memphis has a good amount of PGs

Conley, Lowry, Crittenton

Either Conley or Crittenton will turn out to be pretty good players so I don't exactly see their need for Rose.

On the other hand after the Gasol trade, I don't recall them having any big men that can score, honestly that is their biggest need.

Beasley, Gay, and Conley will be a pretty nice core to work with

[Vertical Limit]

I am sticking with drafting Michael Beasley over Derrick Rose and the championship game really hasn't changed the way I feel about the two prospects.

Derrick Rose continues to remind me of a 2 more than 1, and we need a dominant post player on our team. We already have a Wade, we don't need his shorter clone.

[Flash3]

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Hmm, if you are Memphis, do you build around Conley and Beasley or Rose and a future 1st?

I would think Memphis would jump at the opportunity to get Beasley in G.Crackers scenario.

I'm not say they would, I'm just saying the might; granted Rose might be a better PG/Player than Conley might ever be.

I've yet to see Conley play, so I can't tell you one way or the other.

[HeatSince88]

Detroit, how many post bigs did they have? The had defensive big men again, are you implying Beasley is a defensive big.

As already explained to you, the 1980s Piston title teams had two post players (Aguirre and Edwards) who combined for 30ppg mostly out of the post. The Heat have no such post players.

The 2006 Pistons title team often sent Rasheed Wallace and, to a lesser extent, Tayshaun Prince into the post to initiate offense. The Heat have no such post players.

Bulls how many post bigs? Maybe Luc Longley, and Kukoc. Being generous. No real bigs in defense, but once again a very good defensive team.

As already explained to you, the Bulls offense was mainly Jordan out of the post, Pippen out of the post, and even Cartwright and Kukoc out of the post. Multiple post-ups each possession. The Heat have no such post players.

Know Lakers with Magic, had Kareem. People think, oh post precense. But he had as much impact at the defensive end, he was offensive, defensive big. .

The Lakers posted Kareem and Magic very often. The Heat have no such post players.

Hakeem, offensive and defensive big.

The Rockets posted Hakeem all the time, and Thorpe to a lesser extent. The Heat have no such post players.

Duncan offensive and defensive big. Shaq offensive and defensive big.

Duncan and Shaq post all the time obviously. The Heat have no such post players.

Beasley borderline big, not a defensive big.

He's a post player, which is a hard-to-find commodity that every championship team in the last 40 years has had. The Heat have no such post players.

But I counted between Boston Celtics, Detroit with Isiah, and the Bulls, a total of 19 titles without no real offensive dominant bigs.

They each had great post players. McHale, Bird, Jordan, Pippen, Parrish, Aguirre and Edwards all scored tons of points out of the post for those teams. The Heat have no such post players.

Know let me count the number of titles with defensive bigs. I think 28 titles. Didn't include Boston Celtics of the 80's, but they R Parish and McHale. So I proved you could win titles without no post dominance in the offensive end, a total of 19 titles.

LOL. Every title team you named had 25ppg or more scored by post players. The Heat have no such post players.

So I get this, it helps to have a descent low post game

Every championship team has had a better post game than the Heat. Post play does more than "help" ... it is a necessity for winning a title. The Heat have no such post players.

But I think finding a pointguard to spark us to be one of the top offensive teams is the beginning.

Who were our PGs when we won the title? (JWill, GP)

Who were our post guys? (Shaq and Zo)

I rest my case.

[DanDanE420]

Here's another major question that needs to be answered when it comes to Rose and the Heat: What are we going to do when teams pack the paint? Wade is a slasher, Rose is a slasher, and a three by either player (open or not) is a win for the defense. That's the problem with having a PG version of Wade and the real version of Wade: they have the same strengths and weaknesses.

Beasley, as a powerful 6'9 post-player, is a better shooter from all spots on the floor than Rose. That includes the FT stripe. As a player who's effectiveness in the NBA will depend on his ability to get in the line, Rose's 69% FT shooting is going to cut it. I expect him to improve, but how much? He also does not get to the line nearly as much as guys like Beasley, Bayless, or Gordon, which is why he is such a less efficient scorer despite taking less shots on a more talented team (1.37 pps vs. 1.57 pps for Bayless and Gordon on higher volume.)

The last concern with Rose, which no one seems to talk about, is that he can be too unselfish for his own good. This has been a knock on him since high school, and you saw signs of it on Monday night. He does not put as much pressure on a defense as he can, which is far from the case with the ultra-aggressive Beasley.

Having a 6'9, thickly built forward who is too skilled for 4s, too strong for 3s, and too nasty for his own good will pay dividends from day one. How many players can improve your team's rebounding, shooting, athleticism, post play, and versatility in one pick? There is more than one way to win a championship, but the best way to do it is by having special players with a hunger to dominate. That's Beasley in a nutshell.

[TheGreatPooter]

Here's another major question that needs to be answered when it comes to Rose and the Heat: What are we going to do when teams pack the paint? Wade is a slasher, Rose is a slasher, and a three by either player (open or not) is a win for the defense. That's the problem with having a PG version of Wade and the real version of Wade: they have the same strengths and weaknesses.

All I want to say is that having rose as your pg will never be a problem. EVER. He will get into the paint at will, and not only that he takes and makes many midrange jumpshots and a bunch of awkward floaters layups. Plus theres no way that this kid stays a mediocre shooter, hes going to develop his shot and become a killer.

Beasley, as a powerful 6'9 post-player, is a better shooter from all spots on the floor than Rose. That includes the FT stripe. As a player who's effectiveness in the NBA will depend on his ability to get in the line, Rose's 69% FT shooting is going to cut it. I expect him to improve, but how much? He also does not get to the line nearly as much as guys like Beasley, Bayless, or Gordon, which is why he is such a less efficient scorer despite taking less shots on a more talented team (1.37 pps vs. 1.57 pps for Bayless and Gordon on higher volume.)

Its unfair to compare rose's jumpshot to beasleys. beasley just happens to have near perfect form on his jumpshot.

The last concern with Rose, which no one seems to talk about, is that he can be too unselfish for his own good. This has been a knock on him since high school, and you saw signs of it on Monday night. He does not put as much pressure on a defense as he can, which is far from the case with the ultra-aggressive Beasley.

He looked for his shot plenty towards the end of march madness. Beasley is an offensive freak of nature who has complete confidence in himself. its a scary combination.

Having a 6'9, thickly built forward who is too skilled for 4s, too strong for 3s, and too nasty for his own good will pay dividends from day one. How many players can improve your team's rebounding, shooting, athleticism, post play, and versatility in one pick? There is more than one way to win a championship, but the best way to do it is by having special players with a hunger to dominate. That's Beasley in a nutshell.

Rose does so many good things for a team as well. However like I said, yeah beasley is more ready to play in the league right away.

Its stupid to argue over the two guys. Theyre 19. They will be all star level players. If you dont think so you are (Please Use More Appropriate Word). We just better shut up and pray for the number two pick. Thatll be fine.

[Lane1974]

pray for no worse than #2 you mean

[TheGreatPooter]

no i mean just pray for the number 2 pick. trust me. everyone start praying for the number two pick. plz.

[DanDanE420]

A Top 4 pick is fine. Last year, there were two guys with superstar potential and a bunch of guys with a chance to be really good players. This year, there are at least five guys who can be superstars (Beasley, Rose, Mayo, Bayless and Gordon.)

A small part of me wants us to land the fourth pick, just because I know how good Mayo and Bayless are and I have a perverse interest in seeing this board implode. The last time we had a glaring need at PG and C and landed a disappointing lottery pick, things worked out pretty well.

[BFRESH44]

and I have a perverse interest in seeing this board implode.

lol.

[DBurks2818]

Man, there's so many options in this draft. Even a #3 pick could be traded for an up-and-coming PG (Conley?) and more draft picks to fill other needs.

[heat4life]

Once upon a time, OJ Mayo was supposed to be the "next LeBron". The media followed him since his Junior year in High School. The kid has the tools, skills and is still young enough to mold him. I wouldn't be mad drafting him with #3 or #4 if it came down to it.

[jaseda510]

I would not be dissapointed at all if we ended up with Mayo.

He might be 20 and a half years old (will turn 21 in November) but during last year at USC he has proven to be a capable defender.

Maybe it's all the hype talking but I still think he has all the tools & makings of a star

From what i've read he has been a student of the game, and has caused no problems during his stay at USC

[HIF]

With so many arguments about Rose and Beasley doesn't it make sense if we got the np.1 pick to see who the no.2 wants and then offer them the first pick for the 2 and a player worth having. whether we get Beasley orrose seems fine from the arguments going on

[heat4life]

With so many arguments about Rose and Beasley doesn't it make sense if we got the np.1 pick to see who the no.2 wants and then offer them the first pick for the 2 and a player worth having. whether we get Beasley orrose seems fine from the arguments going on

Galletica suggested a trade with Memphis for #2 (Rose) and Mike Miller with us giving up #1 (Beasley) and Mark Blount. Slam Dunk baby!

[CoolD]

A Top 4 pick is fine. Last year, there were two guys with superstar potential and a bunch of guys with a chance to be really good players. This year, there are at least five guys who can be superstars (Beasley, Rose, Mayo, Bayless and Gordon.)

A small part of me wants us to land the fourth pick, just because I know how good Mayo and Bayless are and I have a perverse interest in seeing this board implode. The last time we had a glaring need at PG and C and landed a disappointing lottery pick, things worked out pretty well.

If we get the fourth. You are going to implode, Riley will go for a big, or trade the pick.

[heat4life]

Blake Griffin or Brook Lopez

[CB4MiamiHeat]

So Blake Griffin is officially going back to school (ESPN )
While DeAndre Jordan has declared for the NBA Draft (ESPN)

[DBurks2818]

Good decision for Griffin. Bad decision for Jordan. Unless he won't yet hire an agent.