My offseason plan

[BMiller52]

See of the bigs I think Love is the surest thing, Speights has the most potential to fill our needs and Arthur is nice but a rotation guy at best.

At best? Sorry but that's at worst IMO and it's ignorant to say a 6th/7th/8th man role is his ceiling. EXTREMELY IGNORANT. I have watched so much college basketball this year it's not even funny and I can safely say that's just ignorant(as someone who has actually seen him play probably 20+ times in the last 2 years).

[deNIEd]

Plan 4

K, this one is a bit of a stretch, but it was fun...
(Really unrealistic in that it requires so many trades to go down, but I do believe each trade is realistic)

Draft Day

Trade 1 w/Denver
Sac: R. Artest
Den: M. Camby, #20

Trade 2 w/ Chicago
Sac: B. Miller, J. Salmons, 08 2nd (Atl)
Chi: D. Gooden, L. Hughes, 08 1st (#9)

Trade 3 w/GSW
Sac: D. Gooden, #42, '10 2nd
GSW: TPE, #14

Draft
#9 - R. Westbrook
#12 - D. Arthur
#14 - B. Batum
# 20 - T. Smith

Post - Draft
Resign Beno - 4 years/22 million
Sign all 4 draft picks

2008-2009 Lineup
PG: B. Udrih/R. Westbrook/(Petrie Super Find)
SG: K. Martin/L. Hughes/Q. Douby
SF: F. Garcia/N. Batum/T. Smith
PF: D. Arthur/S. Williams/S. Rahim
C : M. Camby/S. Hawes/K. Thomas

30 Million Dollars in expiring in 1 year

Thoughts?

[Smills91]

-= original quote snipped =-



At best? Sorry but that's at worst IMO and it's ignorant to say a 6th/7th/8th man role is his ceiling. EXTREMELY IGNORANT. I have watched so much college basketball this year it's not even funny and I can safely say that's just ignorant(as someone who has actually seen him play probably 20+ times in the last 2 years).

I agree with you, I never said 6th/7th/8th. I think that is his worst case scenario. I said rotation guy. At worst I see him being #8 guy on a good team, he'll probably be a starter, but I don't see him being an All-Star either. Which makes him a rotation guy in my book, probably a 3rd/4th option offensively.

[Smills91]

Kings deal:
Ron Artest
Mikki Moore
#45

Blazers deal:
Raef LaFrentz
Jarrett Jack
#13
#33

Kings draft Speights/Westbrook at #12/#13
Look at Thompson at #33
Take a flyer on someone at #45 maybe Kyle Weaver?

Kings new roster:
C: Brad Miller**, Spencer Hawes, Raef LaFrentz*
PF: Mareese Speights, Jason Thompson, Sh. Williams, K. Thomas**
SF: John Salmons, Francisco Garcia
SG: Kevin Martin, Quincy Douby, Kyle Weaver
PG: Beno Udrih****, Jarrett Jack, Russell Westbrook

SAR retires
* kept around as a trading chip(a la Kwame Brown)
** kept around as trading chips for 2009-2010 season(a la Kwame Brown
****Re-signed to a deal similar to tha of Mikki Moore, 3 years 17 million dollars with a team option to terminate the third year. (This give the Kings the opportunity to cut salary for the summer of 2010 if they need/want to and gives Beno the opportunity to acquire bird rights and/or land a bigger deal after 2-3 seasons of STRONG play.

[pillwenney]

I don't see any chance at all that Portland takes a chance on Ron. They can afford to not take any risks really from here on out, and they're still trying to get away from the "Jailblazer" image.

[Smills91]

I don't see any chance at all that Portland takes a chance on Ron. They can afford to not take any risks really from here on out, and they're still trying to get away from the "Jailblazer" image.

I TOTALLY disagree. The fans love the team, I think Ron is a lovable player as well. The guy brings it every single night. He's more quirky than he is criminal. Guys like Sheed, Bonzi, etc were just straight up punks. Ron's just an odd-dunk, but he ALWAYS plays hard. He fits a perfect need for the blazers, they do get a 'test-run' with Ron and he's still young enough to be around for the Roy/Oden/Aldridge trio to grow with.

[pillwenney]

-= original quote snipped =-



I TOTALLY disagree. The fans love the team, I think Ron is a lovable player as well. The guy brings it every single night. He's more quirky than he is criminal. Guys like Sheed, Bonzi, etc were just straight up punks. Ron's just an odd-dunk, but he ALWAYS plays hard. He fits a perfect need for the blazers, they do get a 'test-run' with Ron and he's still young enough to be around for the Roy/Oden/Aldridge trio to grow with.

He also was arrested just over a year ago for domestic abuse. We can't just ignore that, and more important, we can't expect other teams to ignore it--especially a team like Portland, who, rightfully so is very concerned with players like that.

I agree that Ron's different from Sheed and Bonzi in that way, but the fact of the matter is that the guy still isn't THAT far separated from his most recent legal troubles. If Portland were desperate for somebody with his talent, they might worry, but I don't think they are.

[Smills91]

-= original quote snipped =-



He also was arrested just over a year ago for domestic abuse. We can't just ignore that, and more important, we can't expect other teams to ignore it--especially a team like Portland, who, rightfully so is very concerned with players like that.

I agree that Ron's different from Sheed and Bonzi in that way, but the fact of the matter is that the guy still isn't THAT far separated from his most recent legal troubles. If Portland were desperate for somebody with his talent, they might worry, but I don't think they are.

Ehh...I think it was blown out of proportion. Ron really didn't do anything. It sorted itself out and everything is fine at this point.

[KingInExile]

-= original quote snipped =-



Ehh...I think it was blown out of proportion. Ron really didn't do anything. It sorted itself out and everything is fine at this point.

Regardless of what did or did not happen, the fact of the matter is that Ron still has a questionable reputation and that reputation is not one that the Blazers will take on. The team has been burned in the past by good players with questionable character and the result was a huge loss in fan loyalty. Now that they have gotten rid of the last bad apple (Darius Miles), they are not going to jeopardize the fan good-will they have regained by bringing in another guy with a past. The Blazers will play this far more cautiously than any other team. Artest's reputation alone is far more risk than they will want to take on for a long time.

[hiphop1]

Boston Incoming
Ron Artest
Brad Miller

Sacto Incoming
Ray Allen
Leon Powe

[Smills91]

Boston Incoming
Ron Artest
Brad Miller

Sacto Incoming
Ray Allen
Leon Powe

Did you even think for ONE second why the Kings would do this? We're looking at PF/C upgrades OR if we blow it up YOUNG players. Ray Allen as talented as he is is a terrible fit for Sacramento. Martin > Allen at this point and is much younger. Garcia/Salmons are quite capable to play the 3 as well. So that leaves us with yet ANOTHER logjam on the wings.

[Ballings7]

I love Leon Powe, depending if Shelden's going to be a PF or not, I'd love him on this team

Don't think that's a realistic deal, though

[VeeJay24]

How about this guys.............

First of all Artest & KT both exercise use their options to become FAs. Wishful thinking but on the Kings board wishes come true.

Next the Kings sign RFA Josh Smith. It's a longshot but they need to try maybe they can put some crazy clause in the contract to make the Hawks think twice about matching.

Next is a sign & trade involving Artest........

Sacramento Trade Breakdown
Change in Team Outlook: -9.3 ppg, -2.4 rpg, and -3.8 apg.
Incoming Players
Shawn Marion
6-7 SF from UNLV
15.8 ppg, 9.9 rpg, 2.1 apg in 36.4 minutes
Daequan Cook
6-5 SG from Ohio State
8.8 ppg, 3.0 rpg, 1.3 apg in 24.4 minutes
Outgoing Players
Brad Miller
7-0 C from Purdue
13.4 ppg, 9.5 rpg, 3.7 apg in 34.9 minutes
Ron Artest
6-7 SF from St. John's
20.5 ppg, 5.8 rpg, 3.5 apg in 38.1 minutes
Miami Trade Breakdown
Change in Team Outlook: +9.3 ppg, +2.4 rpg, and +3.8 apg.
Incoming Players
Brad Miller
7-0 C from Purdue
13.4 ppg, 9.5 rpg, 3.7 apg in 34.9 minutes
Ron Artest
6-7 SF from St. John's
20.5 ppg, 5.8 rpg, 3.5 apg in 38.1 minutes
Outgoing Players
Shawn Marion
6-7 SF from UNLV
15.8 ppg, 9.9 rpg, 2.1 apg in 36.4 minutes
Daequan Cook
6-5 SG from Ohio State
8.8 ppg, 3.0 rpg, 1.3 apg in 24.4 minutes

then a trade with Portland

Sacramento Trade Breakdown
Change in Team Outlook: +8.1 ppg, +2.6 rpg, and +2.4 apg.
Incoming Players
Martell Webster
6-7 SG from Seattle Prep (HS)
10.7 ppg, 4.0 rpg, 1.2 apg in 28.4 minutes
Jarrett Jack
6-3 PG from Georgia Tech
9.9 ppg, 2.9 rpg, 3.8 apg in 27.2 minutes
Outgoing Players
John Salmons
6-6 SG from Miami-Fla.
12.5 ppg, 4.3 rpg, 2.6 apg in 31.1 minutes
Portland Trade Breakdown
Change in Team Outlook: -8.1 ppg, -2.6 rpg, and -2.4 apg.
Incoming Players
John Salmons
6-6 SG from Miami-Fla.
12.5 ppg, 4.3 rpg, 2.6 apg in 31.1 minutes
Outgoing Players
Martell Webster
6-7 SG from Seattle Prep (HS)
10.7 ppg, 4.0 rpg, 1.2 apg in 28.4 minutes
Jarrett Jack
6-3 PG from Georgia Tech
9.9 ppg, 2.9 rpg, 3.8 apg in 27.2 minutes

Then there is the draft.........Kings take Anthony Randolph SF LSU & Joey Dorsey PF/C Memphis

All of this gives the Kings a roster that looks like this

PG- Jack, Udrih
SG- Martin, Garcia, Cook
SF- Marion, Randolph, Webster
PF- Smith, Reef, Williams
C- Hawes, Dorsey

The Kings would be young and still competitive. With young cornerstones Smith, Hawes & Randolph on the frontline the Kings will have one of the most talented young frontlines in the NBA plus they would have Williams & Dorsey off the bench. Jack is a young PG who seemed to make strides last year. He and Martin I think would complement each other well. As for defense.......Jack plays good defense, Smith led the league in blocks, Dorsey is also a very good defender as well as Williams. Plus, Smith is the perfect PF for Hawes. Marion is a win win situation since his contract would expire after season giving the Kings a big expiring contract but hopefully Marion can be a great leader and teacher to Randolph & Webster in the 1 year that he is with the Kings.

[deNIEd]

Plan - Who Knows

Premise King's need to sign a missing player to push us over the top. Petrie says that year will be 2009 however, that doesn't look likely. As of now, we have the year 2010 lined up in terms of salary. 2010 appears to be a "great" free agent class, however, realistically we won't get any of those players. LeBron, Wade, Bosh, Paul, Deron, etc...none of these players will come to Sacramento. The only way these players would come to Sacramento is if we offer them more money. However, too many teams have salary room in 2010.

That is why this plan aims for 2011. With 2010 being a year of having cap space, teams will likely not have cap space in 2011. Also, 2011 fa class includes the RFA of the 2007 draft class


Draft Day Trade
Sac/NY/Pho/Mia
Sac give: R. Artest, K. Thomas, S. Rahim, M. Moore, #12, #44
Sac gets: Z. Randolph, M. Blount, TPE, #5, #15

NYK give: Z. Randolph, E. Curry, #5
NYK gets: K. Thomas, S. Rahim, M. Moore, #12

Pho give: TPE, #15
Pho gets: R. Artest

Mia give: M. Blount
Mia gets: E. Curry, #44

Reasons
NYK New York does this trade to get out of 2 contracts that otherwise are near impossible of getting out of. They clear about 25 million in cap by 2010, their goal. They give up the #5 pick, but get the #12 pick instead. They can draft Love/McGee/Jordan at that spot, main purpose is getting under the cap.

Pho Gets Artest, while just giving up the pick. Phoenix can either rebuild or give it a shot at contending. They choose to contend.

Mia Miami gives up little to get Curry. Riley has been interested in Curry before, and they give up absolutely nothing to get him. Instead they also get a pick just to take Curry. Good deal for them.

Draft

#5 - J. Bayless
#15 - J. McGee
#42 - R. Hendrix

Off Season
Sign Beno 3 year, 15 million
Buyout or Cut Zach Randolph - It will be hard buying out Randolph, but it has to be done. This prevents Randolph from ever being a cancer to the team or hurt the chemistry.

Lineup at the start of the season

PG: B. Udrih/J. Bayless
SG: K. Martin/Q. Douby
SF: J. Salmons/F. Garcia
PF: B. Miller/J. McGee/R. Hendrix
C : S. Hawes/M. Blount/S. Williams

Trade Deadline
Trade w/ Det & Uta
Sac give: B. Miller
Sac gets: J. Maxiell, J. Collins, J. Hart, R. Price, 2009 1st (Det) & 1st (Uta)

Det give: A. McDyess, J. Maxiell, 2009 1st
Det gets: B. Miller

Uta give: J. Collins, J. Hart, R. Price, 2009 1st
Uta gets: A. McDyess

*Cuts J. Collins, J. Hart, R. Price on agreement to return to Utah*

Sacramento 2009-2010
Roster
PG: J. Bayless/B. Udrih
SG: K. Martin/Q. Douby
SF: J. Salmons/F. Garcia
PF: J. McGee/J. Maxiell/R. Hendrix/(Z. Randolph)
C : S. Hawes/S. Williams

w/ 3 1sts (Sac, Uta, Det)

Team costing about 70 million

Sacramento 2010/2011
Under contract - Bayless, Martin, Garcia, McGee, Hawes - around 25-30 million.
Add in other 09 and 10 draft, as well as possible resigns (Maxiell, Douby, Hendrix, Williams), and it puts us around 40 million.

2011, we would have around 20 million in cap space, enough to sign any max player. Say a team like Atlanta doesn't grow the balls and offer max deal to Horford, we can come in and steal him away, with a possible future team of.
PG: J. Bayless
SG: K. Martin
SF: F. Garcia
PF: A. Horford
C : S. Hawes
w/ 2009 & 2010 picks. Hendrix, Williams, Douby, Maxiell, etc.

[pillwenney]

Well it's hard to tell what cap situations are going to look like for a lot of teams, because for many, it depends on who they keep around. The only teams that look likely to have capspace regardless of those circumstances will be Chicago, Cleveland, Phoenix (even they're kinda in that circumstance, I'm just assuming that by then they won't be looking to give Nash a big extension), San Antonio and us. That's as of right now, and is assuming that people who have aimed for the 09 offseason spend their money then. Now of course, if every team re-signs their big name players, the purpose may be defeated for us, but I'm just making a point here.

Now, just for fun, I looked at our situation and found some really interesting things. Unlike with other teams, we won't have to make any more signings really (if we assume that we include our draft picks) between now and then (if this point isn't clear, just let me know and I can try to clarify more). In fact, actually if Douby and Shelden don't really show us anything by then, (not that I'm hoping for that or anything), then we could not have to really worry about re-signing them in '10 and not extend to them the qualifying offer, which would gives us another $9million in capspace. So then, assuming we re-sign Beno and Cisco to MLEish deals what we would have would be about $34-$36million committed to Garcia and Salmons in their primes, Beno and Kevin nearing their primes, a fine young center in Spencer that would be capable of showing just how good he'll be at that point, 3 Geoff Petrie 1st round picks, and possibly a few 2nd round picks. And we'd have probably at least $22million in cap space. That means that we would be able to completely max somebody out, and still have a few million left over. If you ask me, that's a pretty sweet scenario to walk into for a FA.

And then we would still have that few million the following summer, as I just mentioned, and this is when Salmons would expire. So factoring in the money we'd have left over and the extra space created from Salmons expiring, we'd have at least another $8-10million to play with. Now it's important to note that Spencer would be a RFA and re-signing him would probably be priority #1 at this point. But if we signed somebody with that left over money, that would be another second-tier FA, and then we could use Spencer's bird rights to re-sign him (a stretch, I know, but at this point, why not think about the possibility?)

So that would be a team right up against the luxury tax (possibly a little over, but at this point, that's probably okay), with these players.

Kevin Martin
Francisco Garcia
Beno Udrih
Spencer Hawes
Huge Name FA
08 1st
09 1st
'10 1st
'11 1st
Second Tier FA
08-'11 2nd rounder
08-'11 2nd rounder

Huge Name FA in '10 - I don't want to sound ridiculous, but there's a certain SF in Ohio that may be getting impatient with his management at the time and has a player option for this summer. What are the chances of us signing him? Regardless, extremely low, but given the potential circumstances, and that we could offer him just as much money (albeit not for as long, but he'll be re-signed to max deals as soon as his contract is up regardless), I don't think it's out of the realm of possibilities. Other possibilities would be Tyrus Thomas (if he reaches his potential by then, which is a possibility), Dirk, T-Mac, Yao (early termination), Granger (in the unlikely event that a contract isn't reached the summer before, JO (I know, I know--I just figured he was worth mentioning), Bynum (same situation as Granger, but still, I felt he was worth listing), Gay (restricted), D-Wade (same situation as Lebron--again, highly unlikely, but if they pick some busts, and Riley decides to start sucking at GMing, then well....you never know), Bogut (same situation as Bynum and Granger), Foye (if he reaches his potential as a PG), Chandler (early termination--unlikely but hey, maybe for some reason, s**t hits the fan in NO), Eddy Curry (just kidding), Hedo, Amare (has early termination--not likely, but it is possible that he gets sick of it there), Roy and Aldridge (Both are restricted, so it's highly unlikely, but might as well list them), Ginobili (not ideal for us, but he could be taking up somebody else's cap space if he still isn't wearing down too much), Sene (only listing him because he's a high-reward type player, and may be like hidden Mutombo at this point--in which case we wouldn't offer him max dollars, but hey, I've already written this much), Bosh (same situation as Lebron and Wade), and Boozer.

Now you're probably saying "well gee, you just listed a bunch of unlikely scenarios, and some with currently irrelevant players". This is true, but something has got to give. This is the NBA--screws fall out of their places, weird stuff happens. Every great team has to have gotten lucky at some point, and usually they do multiple times--whether it's lucking into a players availability, lucking into a lottery selection, or even lucking into a win. I just listed a s**t-ton of FA possibilities for just that summer. Something has to fall into our laps, and if we're really lucky, the right something will.

'11 - Basically everybody from the 07 draft plus everyone with a player option or early termination from the year before that didn't opt out, Caron, Kirilenko, Parker, Kobe, and Melo (early termination). And of course, most of these guys would be more than 2nd tier FAs so this is either if we don't sign anyone the year before, or go after a second tier guy from the 07 draft.

So the best case scenario would leave our team looking something like this.

Conley\Udrih\2nd rounder
Martin\'10 pick
Lebron\Garcia
Arthur\'11 pick
Hawes\09 pick\2nd rounder

And that's all without making a single trade. Now a more realistic option would look like.

Augustin\Udrih\2nd rounder
Martin\'10 pick
J. Wright\Garcia
Horford\'11 pick\2nd rounder
Hawes\09 pick

[deNIEd]

Post Lottery Rebuilding Plan

This is a 3 year rebuilding plan

Pre - Draft
Trade w/ NYK & Mia

Sac give: R. Artest, S. Rahim, K. Thomas, M. Moore, Q. Douby
Sac gets: Z. Randolph, M. Blount, J. Jeffries, #6

NYK give: Z. Randolph, E. Curry, J. Jeffries, #6
NYK gets: R. Artest, S. Rahim, K. Thomas, M. Moore, Q. Douby

Mia give: M. Blount
Mia gets: E. Curry

Draft Day
# 6 - A. Randolph
#12 - R. Westbrook or D. Augustin
#42 - R. Hendrix
#44 - B. Walker

Offseason
Trade w/Phi
*Assumption* J. Smith, E. Brand, A. Jamison, etc. resigns
Sac trades: Z. Randolph, 2009 Sac 1st (Lotto Protected)
Phi trades: TPE

Final Roster
PG:B. Udrih/R. Westbrook
SG:K. Martin/B. Walker
SF: J. Salmons/F. Garcia/J. Jeffries
PF: B. Miller/A. Randolph/S. Williams/R. Hendrix
C : S. Hawes/M. Blount

Beno resigned to 3 years 16 million, team option on 3rd
+ 2 FA LLE signings (possibly a player like P'O'Bryant)

Projected 2008/2009 Salary - roughly 65 mil

The next 3 years, build upon the current talent. Move Miller at deadline for additional picks/younger players. No contracts beyond 2011.

Ultimately, goal is to have around 15 mil in cap space going into the 2011 summer, going after D. West, G. Oden, A. Horford, B. Wright, J. Noah, L. Aldridge, etc.

Projected Roster
PG: R. Westbrook/B. Udrih
SG: K. Martin
SF: A. Randolph/F. Garcia
PF: D. West/S. Williams/R. Hendrix
C : S. Williams

[Smills91]

I wouldn't even deal Randolph for Thomas and Shareef...why you have us moving Artest/Douby is BEYOND me.

[deNIEd]

I wouldn't even deal Randolph for Thomas and Shareef...why you have us moving Artest/Douby is BEYOND me.

Douby in my opinion doesn't really matter. So he isn't a plus or minus, and is just a throw in. Like you've also said, I think that the 2011 FA situation is far far far better than the 2010 FA situation.
2011 FA's are better, and there are less teams with cap space, meaning our chances of getting a better player are far greater than 2010.

Randolph in my opinion is simply a contract filler. I'd trade Artest for the 6th pick (even though Artest is my favorite player on the Kings, I think for the team, Artest for 6th is great value wise).

Thomas/Shareef/Moore in my opinion don't really matter either way, great if they are off the team, who cares if they are on the team.

Randolph I would cut or look to deal to Phi for absolutely nothing. Same with Curry, just getting the players for their contract, and using their contracts as compensation for the 6th pick.

Like I said, I'd be hoping to obtain a lineup of something along the lines of

Augustine/Martin/Randolph/Horford/Hawes
with Garcia as the 6th man.

[Smills91]

It'd take the 6th pick to have me beging thinking of adding Randolph's 17 million dollar contract to our payroll for the 2010-2011 seasons. 17 million dollars is roughly ONE THIRD of one's salary cap.

To dump that amount of money for a cancer like Randolph is certainly worth some sort of incentive, losing our best player Artest is NOT incentive. And Douby is worth more to keep than he is in a trade unless we're clearly getting the Best player in the trade and here we are not.

[RoyalCourtJestr]

I was thinking-

We could trade Salmons, SAR and Kenny (maybe Quincy and a 2nd to sweeten the deal) to Toronto for their 16th pick and their 2009 EXPings - Garbajosa, Parker, ect. We start our rebuliding earlier, get good cap space for 2009 and a good pick. Toronto gets a stable SG/SF who would be a good option for that team (and Salmons in Toronto, IRRRONNIC) and they only get pushed back a year for Kenny and two for SAR.

Then we could draft Westbrook at #12 and maybe McGee at #16 (best PF/C at that point likely, maybe Serge), a future lineup of Westbrook, Martin, Artest, McGee/FA, Hawes.