Josh Smith's Contract

[Sultanofatl]

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both are outperforming him in the playoffs against a better defensive team. He just shot 29 percent for the series with Peja on him. And you know...having parties during the playoffs after a loss...and throwing your teammates under the bus by saying most NBA players smoke weed...essentially saying that the players he is around are smoking weed.

Yeah, screw Josh Howard. I would take Marvin and Chill over him. There is more than just scoring points to keep a team going.

so your telling me right now, if you could suit up Josh Howard for game 6 over Marvin.....you wouldn't?

[Rip2137]

No. I wouldn;t suit up a 29% shooting, teammate under the bus throwing, passing out invites to a party at a club after a game 4 loss in the locker room, SF that got shut down by a shooter known for everything but defense.

Laugh all you want. He has played like pure crap and worse than Marvin and you guys are complaining about Marvin.

Yes i understand that during the regular season he might provide more, but all the other stuff and decision making doesn't make a 5 PPG trade off worth it.

[HoopsGuru25]

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Well I wouldn't do it if I were them but only because of the Brand issue.

On a pure value basis, Kaman came into the NBA at the age Smith is today. He isn't really a more efficient scorer even though he is a center and scores fewer points, he is a good shotblocker but he is a worse defender overall because he loses focus so much, he makes Smith look like Calderon in terms of dumb turnovers...

What he is, is 7 feet and solid on both ends which makes him pretty rare but it is really debatable whether is a better player today and he doesn't have near the upside that Smith does.

Well I really haven't thought about it from our side. However the Clippers backup center is Paul Davis. I'm not sure if I would do that either but I could tell you that the Hawks would give that trade offer much more thought than the Clippers. It depends on how you value Kaman's 2008 season(and the odds of repeating it) and if you think you can get a player(lets say Anthony Randolph)with the Clippers pick that can come close to giving you what Smith does. I'm not sure if I've heard a good offer for Smith from opposing fans(most have been Biedrins)but Kaman+the number 8 pick is far from horrible no matter how much you value Smith.

[conleyorbust]

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Well I really haven't thought about it from our side. However the Clippers backup center is Paul Davis. I'm not sure if I would do that either but I could tell you that the Hawks would give that trade offer much more thought than the Clippers. It depends on how you value Kaman's 2008 season(and the odds of repeating it) and if you think you can get a player(lets say Anthony Randolph)with the Clippers pick that can come close to giving you what Smith does. I'm not sure if I've heard a good offer for Smith from opposing fans(most have been Biedrins)but Kaman+the number 8 pick is far from horrible no matter how much you value Smith.

Like I said, I've written on this before and I don't disagree with you.

If we wanted to trade Smith, this would be a good offer. The Clippers wouldn't do it because Smith and Brand are probably best from around the same range (even if WE don't use him from there enough) and they'd be left without a C.

This is not, however, an offer that I would take if it was proposed to us unsolicited for the above reasons and because, while the number 8 pick should be solid, you don't want to count on anything outside the top 3.

[magee]

Howard was the player most effected by the Kidd deal. Dirk still got his numbers. Damp improved. Kidd still couldn't score. But Howard? Against good teams? Taken out of the game. Now, with Atlanta, he wouldn't be a go-to scorer, but he could easily average close to 20 because he's efficient. Marvin is the player being exposed in this series. I'd like to see Childress start for him.

But in the context of trading for Howard, whoever would rather have Marvin is quite the dummy. And I'd much rather have Howard start against Boston instead of Williams.

[evildallas]

I'd rather start Josh Howard than Marvin because Marvin is getting abused when on D. Long term, Howard's got some fresh baggage that makes him unpopular.

Talking trade though, let's be honest. Howard has played all-star level and produced in college as well. Marvin has the nba body that shows so much potential and a sweet shot, but he hasn't performed at Howard level anywhere. Marvin is still very young and may develop and is 6 years younger. Howard is the guy I would want to compete now, maybe in 3 years Marvin gets the edge. That's a long time to wait and pay.

[JoshB914]

Howard has established himself as a credible threat to score, at least they would have to cover them. When they double JJ, they just leave Marvin wide open in the corner because they know he can't hit anything.

[HoopsGuru25]

Dallas would be pretty dumb to trade Howard. He averaged 20 and 7 with very good defense. If he is your 2nd best player then the chances are that you have a pretty good team. I think he has a pretty good contract as well(I'm thinking 4/40). Getting Redd would be great but getting Howard(who isn't a bad defender and doesn't have a huge contract)would be even better.

[evildallas]

If Dallas trades Howard it's not because of ability but rather him being the most movable piece and an acknowledgement that he isn't meshing with Kidd. I don't think they would trade him here because the drop-off is too great in what we could offer (Marvin and Zaza). I see more likely options like:

Memphis for Mike Miller + Kyle Lowry
Charlotte for Gerald Wallace
Denver just because I think they are about to fire sale.
Milwaukee in a deal involving Michael Redd
Toronto for TJ Ford and Jamario Moon
Indiana in a very large deal involving Jermaine O'Neal (Howard + Dampier)

Mind you I don't all of these are good deals, but rather what I saw as available by scanning the league. I'm not exactly sure what style of player they feel will fit best with Kidd (I would have thought that Howard would have).

[Rip2137]

trading for skill and ignoring obvious character flaws is what got us in the 9 year hell we are just now getting out of.

And Howard didn't play great defense this year. Not even close. He became Mr score man and started taking the defensive side of the floor off.

I am not saying that Marvin or Chill are better players or scorers. I am saying I would rather have a good character guy at 15 points a game than a non character guy at 20 points per game. I would rather have Chill at 12 points a game and not throw his team under the bus than Howard.

But I guess I am the only one that remembers the Rider trade. Weed smoking partier that came into the leage as a decent defender then decided he only wanted to be a scorer....hmmm...sounds familiar.

[conleyorbust]

trading for skill and ignoring obvious character flaws is what got us in the 9 year hell we are just now getting out of.

...

But I guess I am the only one that remembers the Rider trade. Weed smoking partier that came into the leage as a decent defender then decided he only wanted to be a scorer....hmmm...sounds familiar.

...?

Seriously rip?

I don't like Josh Howard as much as most but this is just stupid.

[Rip2137]

How is it dumb. What about him says "Great character guy?" Dirk, Avery have both called him out on his focus so far, he keeps giving interviews about how he breaks the leagues substance rules in the offseason(this wasn't the first one, this was the third interview he has done this. This time he decided to do it during the NBA playoffs, and threw the rest of his teammates and leauge under the bus.) And oncea again, passing out flyers for a party at the club in the locker room after a loss is just plain (Please Use More Appropriate Word).

JR Riders worse offense when he came from portland was that he liked to smoke weed and that he was late to practice. He also complained because he felt his role int he offense wasn't enough and stopped playing defense because he wanted to save his energy for the offensive end. Josh Howard has done the same thing this year (letting up on defense to be more of a offensive force).

And like I said, the difference between Marvin and Josh Howard is 5 points a game. And it was more like 3 before Marvin became the 4th offensive option instead of 3rd like he was in the start of the season. The difference isn't THAT great that you ignore all those character flaws.

[conleyorbust]

How is it dumb. What about him says "Great character guy?" Dirk, Avery have both called him out on his focus so far, he keeps giving interviews about how he breaks the leagues substance rules in the offseason(this wasn't the first one, this was the third interview he has done this. This time he decided to do it during the NBA playoffs, and threw the rest of his teammates and leauge under the bus.) And oncea again, passing out flyers for a party at the club in the locker room after a loss is just plain (Please Use More Appropriate Word).

JR Riders worse offense when he came from portland was that he liked to smoke weed and that he was late to practice. He also complained because he felt his role int he offense wasn't enough and stopped playing defense because he wanted to save his energy for the offensive end. Josh Howard has done the same thing this year (letting up on defense to be more of a offensive force).

And like I said, the difference between Marvin and Josh Howard is 5 points a game. And it was more like 3 before Marvin became the 4th offensive option instead of 3rd like he was in the start of the season. The difference isn't THAT great that you ignore all those character flaws.

No... Rider's worst offenses came when he was charged, and convicted, of assault on more than one occasion.

Rider was also arrested for marijuana possession whereas Howard admitted to using it. There is a very big legal difference and if you want to say that everyone that has used, or does use, marijuana has "character issues" you are going to have a really really really long list.

Rider had multiple criminal offenses and Howard has admitted to smoking pot. BIG difference... not to mention the fact that Marv isn't exactly known for his focus or intensity.

[Rip2137]

i am not saying everyone that uses pot has character issues. I am saying that a guy that is flaunting it in multiple views, one of which was DURING the playoffs has some issues. I am saying passing out flyers in a lockerroom after a playoff loss is issues.

If he was 22, then I would chalk them up to youthful mistakes. He is 28 freakin years old. He is damn near thirty. There is no reason for something that stupid. There is smoking pot and there is ricky Williams, admitting it smoking pot.

Seroiusly, is a 28 year old who thinks clubbing after a playoff lost and you have to get on a freakin PLANE the next day, who flaunts that he breaks league rules is what you want to be on this team of sub 25 year olds?

And I don't see how Howard not being caught doing something he is openly admitting to doing is different. By the time Rider made it to Atlanta, his biggest thing was the weed conviction (he did have a5th degree assault conviction, but seriously...KG shoving that ref the other night was 5th degree assault) but it was his attitude and just plain stupid nature that was more clearly the reason you don't make that deal despite his talent.

Maybe Howard just put forth a incredibly unfortunate run of stupidity right now, but the signs are definately there for a monumental idiot.

Sure, he can play, but I would rather work on Marvin's focus as a 22 year old instead of hoping that a 28 year old bad publicity magnet would gain focus.

[BMF Jet Jaguar]

bibby/law
joe
marvin/chill
hofo/love*
kaman

looks pretty nice to me

although i wouldnt want to get rid of smoove anyway

[conleyorbust]

i am not saying everyone that uses pot has character issues. I am saying that a guy that is flaunting it in multiple views, one of which was DURING the playoffs has some issues. I am saying passing out flyers in a lockerroom after a playoff loss is issues.

If he was 22, then I would chalk them up to youthful mistakes. He is 28 freakin years old. He is damn near thirty. There is no reason for something that stupid. There is smoking pot and there is ricky Williams, admitting it smoking pot.

Seroiusly, is a 28 year old who thinks clubbing after a playoff lost and you have to get on a freakin PLANE the next day, who flaunts that he breaks league rules is what you want to be on this team of sub 25 year olds?

And I don't see how Howard not being caught doing something he is openly admitting to doing is different. By the time Rider made it to Atlanta, his biggest thing was the weed conviction (he did have a5th degree assault conviction, but seriously...KG shoving that ref the other night was 5th degree assault) but it was his attitude and just plain stupid nature that was more clearly the reason you don't make that deal despite his talent.

Maybe Howard just put forth a incredibly unfortunate run of stupidity right now, but the signs are definately there for a monumental idiot.

Sure, he can play, but I would rather work on Marvin's focus as a 22 year old instead of hoping that a 28 year old bad publicity magnet would gain focus.

Rip, you have got to be joking about his biggest thing being a weed conviction. His 5th degree assault charge came when he kicked a woman at a bar, at UNLV he had gotten arrested because he attacked a fast food restaraunt employee through the drive in window. He had been in and out of trouble all through high school. Also, if I'm not mistaken, Rider was arrested for using stolen cell phones so he didn't have to pay for the minutes.

I'm not not saying that Josh Howard is a perfect player for this team but I think its offensive for you to make a serious comparison between his character and JR Rider's considering Howard has NEVER been in trouble with the law - he could have left college early but wanted to be the first member of his family to get a degree so he stayed for four years, blah, blah, blah...

Also, Howard had a bad playoffs this season but he was excellent before that.

Again, not saying I want him here or he'd be a perfect fit (although he'd be better than Marv for the near future), just that you are comparing his character flaws to a guy who's name appeared more in the blotter than in the box scores.