Zo Returning?

Post #21 » by **Lane1974** » Mon May 12, 2008 10:02 pm

well next year we have the benefit of (hopefully) a healthy Wade, Haslem, and 82 games of Marion, that should be a tremendous boost in the winning column

Wade2k6 · Post #22 » by **Wade2k6** » Mon May 12, 2008 10:36 pm

CB4MiamiHeat wrote:-= original quote snipped =-

10 games better? How good are people expecting a 19 year old rookie PG to be? It usually takes PGs a while to develop.

PGS drafted in top 10 their Rookie seasons:

Deron Williams averaged 11-4 on 42% shooting his rookie season...
Felton averaged 12-6 39% shooting
Ford averaged 7pts 6assists 38%
Conley, Harris, Daniels was pretty irrelevant their rookie season.

The only exception is Chris Paul who put up 18-8-5 his rookie season..hes arguably the best player in basketball in now..we might set ourselves up for dissapointment expecting those numbers.

Deron Williams was in a different situation then Chris Paul. Williams only play 28 minutes a game, while Paul played 36, which is a huge difference. Williams could of averaged 14-5.5 from his 11-4.5 with 8 more minutes a game.

I could see Rose averaging 12/5.5/4.5 in 35-36 minutes his rookie year. But, if they got Rose I could see him playing 26-28 minutes a night averaging about 11/4/3

HeatSince88 · Post #23 » by **HeatSince88** » Tue May 13, 2008 1:41 am

Guys, I agree that 43 wins is attainable. So there's no need to tell me how it's perfectly plausible to get to 43 wins with a good draft pick and everyone's return to good health (Wade, Zo, Marion, Udonis) .... I agree!

(After all, what NBA team CAN'T get to 43 wins if everything goes their way in the lottery and health-wise? Duh)

What I disagree with is that just by drafting Rose and bringing back Zo in his wheelchair, we'll be like Boston ... a 66-win team favored to go to the Finals. That's ridiculous. It severely overrates the impact of a 19-year-old guard from Conference USA and, for that matter, Zo himself.

Post #24 » by **Lane1974** » Tue May 13, 2008 1:46 am

well the Celtics imported 2 HOF or near HOF level players in or near their primes... big difference than our situation

Wade2k6 · Post #25 » by **Wade2k6** » Tue May 13, 2008 1:58 am

HeatSince88 wrote:Guys, I agree that 43 wins is attainable. So there's no need to tell me how it's perfectly plausible to get to 43 wins with a good draft pick and everyone's return to good health (Wade, Zo, Marion, Udonis) .... I agree!

(After all, what NBA team CAN'T get to 43 wins if everything goes their way in the lottery and health-wise? Duh)

What I disagree with is that just by drafting Rose and bringing back Zo in his wheelchair, we'll be like Boston ... a 66-win team favored to go to the Finals. That's ridiculous. It severely overrates the impact of a 19-year-old guard from Conference USA and, for that matter, Zo himself.

Who said we're going to be a 66 win team and favored to go to the finals? Nobody is saying that. Most people are saying we will be a 45 win team, and like you said that is a very attainable goal.

People are excited about the future because of the type of player Wade is, and the type of player Beasley& Rose can be.

HeatSince88 · Post #26 » by **HeatSince88** » Tue May 13, 2008 2:43 am

Wade2k6 wrote:Who said we're going to be a 66 win team and favored to go to the finals? Nobody is saying that.

Does this answer your question? ...

The Diesel wrote:They could have a turn-around similar to the one Boston had this year if Zo returns to the Heat and they get Derrick Rose.

I responded by pointing out how that comparison was, then everybody jumps on me saying "You don't think we can win 43 games if we get the #1 pick and everyone's completely healthy?" LOL, I was just saying w'ere not like Boston.

Obviously we can win 43 games next year with luck in the lottery and health-wise; every team could if given those same blessings. I just don't think Rose plus everyone returning equals Boston's 66-win season.

People are excited about the future because of the type of player Wade is, and the type of player Beasley& Rose can be.

Um yeah, OK great. But does that mean we're winning 66 games next year with a teenager running the point and Zo coming back? No.

And that was my only point.

MiamiHeatFan2004 · Post #27 » by **MiamiHeatFan2004** » Tue May 13, 2008 2:43 am

Zo won't leave the game on a horrible loser team and injured, that will not be the way he wants people to remember him in the end.

He will be back next year and again be one of the top shot blockers and giving his all once again on every play and every game. I LOVE IT and can't wait to see him back in action.

Wade2k6 · Post #28 » by **Wade2k6** » Tue May 13, 2008 3:39 am

HeatSince88 wrote:-= original quote snipped =-

I responded by pointing out how that comparison was, then everybody jumps on me saying "You don't think we can win 43 games if we get the #1 pick and everyone's completely healthy?" LOL, I was just saying w'ere not like Boston.

Obviously we can win 43 games next year with luck in the lottery and health-wise; every team could if given those same blessings. I just don't think Rose plus everyone returning equals Boston's 66-win season.

Um yeah, OK great. But does that mean we're winning 66 games next year with a teenager running the point and Zo coming back? No.

And that was my only point.

Alright my fault man lol I didnt see that post by The Diesel. I'm guessing he meant we could turn it around like the Celtics did this year, but to a much lesser extent.

I agree with you to the point that Rose and a 100% healthy squad doesn't gauruntee a 66 win team, but it certainly puts us in contention for a top 4-5 playoff spot IMO.

I never said we would win 66 games with Rose and 100% healthy team. I don't know why, in the last part of your post, you're bringing that up to me, the Diesel is the poster that said it.

The Diesel · Post #29 » by **The Diesel** » Tue May 13, 2008 3:51 am

Yeah, I doubt Miami wins 66 games next year, but they will have a BIG turnaround and win a lot of games and be a scary team as I have already mentioned if certain things occur.

To repeat:

- If Zo returns (Seems he will)

- Miami gets Derrick Rose

Plus, you already have Wade, Marion, Haslem, and Dorrell (who will fit in well in an uptempo system), Cook, and Quinn and that's a very solid team.

Starting line-up.

Alonzo Mourning

Udonis Haslem

Shawn Marion

Dwyane Wade

Derrick Rose

OR

Udonis Haslem

Shawn Marion

Dorrell Wright

Dwyane Wade

Derrick Rose

Those teams would be really good; especially the first one.

Wade2k6 · Post #30 » by **Wade2k6** » Tue May 13, 2008 4:10 am

Whether the Heat get Zo to return or not, he will not be starting. Blount will still (unfortunatly) be the starting C.

I wouldn't mind a bench of Zo, Wright, Banks, Cook though. It can't be any worse then last years team. Throw an MLE type player and a 2nd round pick and it's an average bench (not as awful as last years).

CoolD · Post #31 » by **CoolD** » Tue May 13, 2008 4:17 am

Even if Zo comes back, we have to not rely on him to much. That means we have to get rid of Blount.

But if we attain Rose, plus a three point treat at SF, that is tall enough for certain matchups such as LeBron. With Zo and a guy like Jeff Foster behind him, or vice versa.

I could see a team that by midseason will start looking very dangerous, and by Playoffs might be one of the most dangerous teams in the Weak east.

I think Rose and a new team adapting, it will take away a couple wins at the beginning, but by midseason, I could see us like the year we had Odom and Rookie Wade, turn into a much better team going into the Playoffs. If we have close to 47 or 50 wins. I think we might get to the third round, if everything goes well with the Playoff seeding.

The Diesel · Post #32 » by **The Diesel** » Tue May 13, 2008 4:23 am

Also, Rose will be a HUGE upgrade defensively over J-Will.

J-Will is a horrible defender while Rose has the strength, size, and athleticism to be a very good defender.

Even if he doesn't become a great defender, he will still be better than J-Will defensively.

And that's another over-looked thing here in regards to next year's team; sure, they should be very exciting playing in Spoelstra's up-tempo system, but it will be a good DEFENSIVE team because:

- Zo, Haslem, and Marion are terrific defenders and Rose should turn out to be a good defensive PG.

They will be able to run most teams out of the gym, but also play really good defense when the game slows down.

Wade2k6 · Post #33 » by **Wade2k6** » Tue May 13, 2008 4:30 am

CoolD wrote:Even if Zo comes back, we have to not rely on him to much. That means we have to get rid of Blount.

But if we attain Rose, plus a three point treat at SF, that is tall enough for certain matchups such as LeBron. With Zo and a guy like Jeff Foster behind him, or vice versa.

I could see a team that by midseason will start looking very dangerous, and by Playoffs might be one of the most dangerous teams in the Weak east.

I think Rose and a new team adapting, it will take away a couple wins at the beginning, but by midseason, I could see us like the year we had Odom and Rookie Wade, turn into a much better team going into the Playoffs. If we have close to 47 or 50 wins. I think we might get to the third round, if everything goes well with the Playoff seeding.

Guy that comes to mind is James Jones. 6'8-6'9 220 pounds can play SF & PF (i think) and shoots the 3 ball at 44% (91-205). He's used to being in a transition offense playing for the Suns, and if Rose is drafted they will probably try to speed the pace of the game up a bit more.

C: Blount, Zo
PF: Haslem, Jones
SF: Marion, Wright/Jones
SG: Wade, Wright, Cook
PG: Rose, Banks, Quinn

Wouldn't be such a bad lineup, just a possibility though. I don't think Riley would want to spend the MLE on a backup PF, SF though.

CoolD · Post #34 » by **CoolD** » Tue May 13, 2008 4:46 am

Wade2k6 wrote:-= original quote snipped =-

Guy that comes to mind is James Jones. 6'8-6'9 220 pounds can play SF & PF (i think) and shoots the 3 ball at 44% (91-205). He's used to being in a transition offense playing for the Suns, and if Rose is drafted they will probably try to speed the pace of the game up a bit more.

C: Blount, Zo
PF: Haslem, Jones
SF: Marion, Wright/Jones
SG: Wade, Wright, Cook
PG: Rose, Banks, Quinn

Wouldn't be such a bad lineup, just a possibility though. I don't think Riley would want to spend the MLE on a backup PF, SF though.

Blount is probably the worst big guy defender I've ever seen.

We either play Joel Anthony more at Center, or something. But Blount can't play to many minutes.

We might be able to win if Rose, Wade, Marion, Haslem outrun teams. But it wll kill me to watch a 15 to 20 point lead evaporate with in a couple minutes. That is how atrocious Blount is at the defensive end. But in the Weak East, we might be able to hide him at times, but I want see a guy that can somewhat rebound and play some D, that would make life a lot easier on everyone.

Wade2k6 · Post #35 » by **Wade2k6** » Tue May 13, 2008 5:34 am

Yes i agree he is a terrible defender, but that's something ya need to deal with because of the trade Riley pulled off. It wasn't a very good trade and the team is paying for it now.

Traded away the backup C, young potential PF, and Walker (who now would set to expire at the end of this upcoming year) plus a 2nd rounder and next years first rounder.

The 2nd rounder this year could have gotten a player like Mario Chalmers, Ty Lawson, DeVon Hardin, JJ Hickson etc... Plus next years 1st rounder which would probably be at about 20.

HeatSince88 · Post #36 » by **HeatSince88** » Tue May 13, 2008 1:17 pm

The Diesel wrote:Yeah, I doubt Miami wins 66 games next year, but they will have a BIG turnaround and win a lot of games and be a scary team as I have already mentioned if certain things occur.

To repeat:

- If Zo returns (Seems he will)

- Miami gets Derrick Rose

Plus, you already have Wade, Marion, Haslem, and Dorrell (who will fit in well in an uptempo system), Cook, and Quinn and that's a very solid team.

Starting line-up.

Alonzo Mourning

Udonis Haslem

Shawn Marion

Dwyane Wade

Derrick Rose

OR

Udonis Haslem

Shawn Marion

Dorrell Wright

Dwyane Wade

Derrick Rose

Those teams would be really good; especially the first one.

Sure, any lottery team right now could say "if we get Derrick Rose and stay 100% healthy, we could make the playoffs ..."

I am glad you backed off the whole Celtics/contenders comparison. Adding a teenager to run the point is much different than adding Kevin Garnett plus Ray Allen at or near their primes.

Post #37 » by **heat4life** » Tue May 13, 2008 1:36 pm

Then there is the possibility that Zo DOES come back for his last season but decides to play for a title contender instead of a rebuilding project. It is a possibility.

The Diesel · Post #38 » by **The Diesel** » Tue May 13, 2008 1:41 pm

I'm curious about this, so it would be cool if someone can answer my question about it:

- Has Zo ever commented about the Shaq/Riley feud that took place recently?

I'm really interested to hear what he has to say because he's tight with Shaq, but he's also tight with Riley.

Has he ever commented about it or about Shaq's departure in general?

Thanks.

Post #39 » by **heat4life** » Tue May 13, 2008 2:07 pm

I think because he is tight with both as you mentioned, he will not comment on it.

The Diesel · Post #40 » by **The Diesel** » Tue May 13, 2008 2:32 pm

I have one more question about the Shaq/Riley feud, if you don't mind.

1) Why hasn't any Heat player come out and blasted Shaq publicly for this feud he's had with Riley?

It seems that nobody talked or defended Riley publicly when all this was going on.

You would think considering what Riley has meant to this franchise and the fact that Shaq quit on the team, that some of them would come out and blast Shaq for saying the things he did, but it never happened.

Why? And if it did happen, who did speak out and what exactly did they say?

I mean, that feud got very ugly before it ended recently...I'm surprised that nobody really spoke out about it...