Monta's a better PG than APG indicates...

Post #1 » by **FNQ** » Thu May 29, 2008 6:50 pm

The reason being our horrible jump shooters... how bad are they?

Baron Davis, eFG% 2007-08 - .419
http://www.82games.com/0708/07GSW1A.HTM
Fatoine Walker - .419
http://www.82games.com/0708/07MIN10A.HTM

This wasn't a one year thing either... technically this was a good shooting season for Baron.

2006-07 - .391
http://www.82games.com/0607/06GSW1A.HTM

2005-06 - .392
http://www.82games.com/0506/05GSW1A.HTM

2nd for villification is Stack Jack, who was notably better but still bad:

http://www.82games.com/0708/07GSW8A.HTM
.444 eFG%

And that too was better than his stretch run for us last year.

If Jax was remotely tradeable I'd want him gone too...

Poor Monta... he's set up this team for so many open 3s, forced into the hands of Baron/Jax/NoLegsMagoo... this team needs Rush like nobody's business.

cdubbz · Post #2 » by **cdubbz** » Thu May 29, 2008 7:04 pm

It doesnt matter stats is all what matters!

Twinkie defense · Post #3 » by **Twinkie defense** » Thu May 29, 2008 11:00 pm

Reggae are you still thinking Monta will be (or already is) a true PG... meaning QB of the squad, knows how to find guys in the right spot, great court vision, delivers the ball in the right position, strong assist/turnover ratio (and ideally, close to double-digit assists per game), knows when to push it and when to back off, etc?

I know a fair number of posters felt he was pretty much there this season, but lately I've been hearing a lot of people talk about Monta (like Steinmetz, Tolbert, Kawakami) as a 2 or combo guard, without real PG skills.

Like I've said many times, I think Monta was very good this season, has the potential to be great, my favorite Warrior, but that he's a natural combo guard and forcing him into a role that's not right for him is to diminish his impact.

So basically I'm wondering how high people still are on Monta the PG.

Chris Cohan · Post #4 » by **Chris Cohan** » Thu May 29, 2008 11:06 pm

Why don't you take a poll?

GSWhoopfan · Post #5 » by **GSWhoopfan** » Thu May 29, 2008 11:29 pm

you use statistics against Baron...but for Monta statistics are thrown out the window.

here is where i expect you and your tag team buddy Rowell to say something witty.

Monta is a scorer...let him focus on scoring. Monta is the second best scorer in the state of California. Monta passing is what opposing teams want.

Chris Cohan · Post #6 » by **Chris Cohan** » Thu May 29, 2008 11:46 pm

We can certainly use statistics to prove Monta's incredible efficiency, consistency, improvement, and even increased "real" assists accumulation next to Baron's SHOTS increase and assists DECREASE second half this year. All day.

Monta wins every time as the team's scoring leader, second leading rebounder and assists guy, near steals leader, in the second half. He was under 30% on 3's second half. So was Baron. He was over 50% all year on field goals. Good luck, Baron.

Easy.

MightyReds2020 · Post #7 » by **MightyReds2020** » Thu May 29, 2008 11:53 pm

GSWhoopfan wrote:you use statistics against Baron...but for Monta statistics are thrown out the window.

here is where i expect you and your tag team buddy Rowell to say something witty.

Monta is a scorer...let him focus on scoring. Monta is the second best scorer in the state of California. Monta passing is what opposing teams want.

In order for a scorer to win, he has to pass the ball, with efficiency. Just ask Kobe.

Head Leader · Post #8 » by **Head Leader** » Thu May 29, 2008 11:59 pm

if tony parker can do it...

why do people insist Monta can't?

don't give me the "Duncan" bull either.

its not hard to throw a post entry pass.

Sid's right

we have no shooters... and our "shooters" are low percentage chucking ball dominators...minus Al of course.

:pray:

for Bellinelli to get his act together...

GSWhoopfan · Post #9 » by **GSWhoopfan** » Fri May 30, 2008 12:05 am

MightyReds2020 wrote:-= original quote snipped =-

In order for a scorer to win, he has to pass the ball, with efficiency. Just ask Kobe.

Monta isnt Kobe. Monta has to work much harder and shift his focus to passing.

Kobe is elite. He can pass all night and hit game winners with his eyes closed.

Teams dont play defense on Monta like they do Kobe.

Plus...ive been saying it all along. if Monta drives and Ben Wallace is in his face he will either pass or draw contact. Thats not rocket science. Monta has been doing that for 2 seasons.

if im coaching Monta, i want him to shoot more than his teammates. im not saying never pass, but if he has an open look i want him taking that open look. Teams have to work harder on the defensive end when Monta scores. Monta is a lethal scorer. He can finish in so many ways.

GSWhoopfan · Post #10 » by **GSWhoopfan** » Fri May 30, 2008 12:07 am

look at Al Harrington. Al Harrington should be on the block or in the post, not beyond the arc. But he is beyond the arc because his 3ball is one of his strengths.

play to strenghts.

and Tony Parker...he has to learn to pass, his offensive game is no where near the level of Monta.

i dont think people understand how great a scorer Monta is. Monta putting the ball in the hoop wins games.

Head Leader · Post #11 » by **Head Leader** » Fri May 30, 2008 12:11 am

whihc is why i said.. if tony parker can do it... monta would ahve no problem doing it.

Chris Cohan · Post #12 » by **Chris Cohan** » Fri May 30, 2008 12:24 am

Monta was at 4.6 assists per game after the All Star break this season. Nothing spectacular but quite nice next to a ball-hog who drops to 6.7. That was from a supposedly elite point guard supposedly qualified to lead a competitive playoff team with a legitimate title shot while direct competitors Paul and Williams were 12 and up, Nash and Kidd were a shade under 10, non-factor Felton was over 8 and guys like Sessions, Bibby, Miller, Calderon, and Watson were all higher than Baron, too.

Fine if Baron is taking on the scoring load and playing dominant one-on-one ball that wins games. But he wasn't doing anything remotely close to that. That was his plan (more money for Baron!) but he doesn't have what it takes. Case closed.

So as Baron reverted to his typical habits and declined, Ellis continued to improve and play the best ball of his life.

There is no contest.
Ellis is in line to have the superior career in all ways.

Head Leader · Post #13 » by **Head Leader** » Fri May 30, 2008 12:48 am

damn... you really hate baron don't you.

i agree he wasnt very effiecint, especially in the second half.. but i tihnk it goes without saying monta was our best player regardless...

and as a guard who isnt a "hog" who takes terirble shots i see no reason why he shouldnt be able to slide over to PG

how many rings do jason kidd, nash, bibby, miller and watson have?... and how many do tony parker Chauncey billups, derek fisher (eww), sam cassel, etc etc have? edit: even tho cassell came off the bench... but still...

assists numbers mean diddly if you have a competent lead guard.. and monta is more then competent IMO.

Post #14 » by **FNQ** » Fri May 30, 2008 1:20 am

The extremist view is about as flawed as you can get....

Monta's a scorer, therefore he should just score. What terrible logic.

Monta's a QB, and he demonstrated that in the limited amount of time he was allowed to touch the ball on offense... Not only did he get cheated out of countless assists by our three-headed chucksquad (Baron/Jax/Lt.Dan), but the assists he did often get were in the lane type passes. PG passes.

Monta's inexperience made him prone to make some lazy entry passes or lazy movement passes, but in reality, he was extremely efficient with the ball.. most of his TOs came on his dribble drives where he carries the ball over his shoulder...

Its the same old story though... the same, pro-Baron people use extremely general stats w/no analysis to draw conclusions. When will they tire of being incorrect?

Baron to DAL in 08 :thumbsup:

Chris Cohan · Post #15 » by **Chris Cohan** » Fri May 30, 2008 1:48 am

I look at the Monta issue like this when a super simplistic take seems called for.

Let's say you've got a batch of young lead guard types in front of you and you get to pick one to lead your team fulltime, longterm, starting next season (for argument's sake).

All things considered, give me your top talents from this list:

Paul
D. Williams
Calderon
Felton
Rondo
Mo Williams
Ellis
Hinrich
Conley
Parker
Rose
Bayless
Lowry
Devin Harris
Foye
Stuckey
Sergio Rodriguez
Sessions
Westbrook
Koponen
Udrih
Farmar
Crittenton
Louis Williams
Lawson
Chalmers

On sheer talent, I'd be inclined to say the best 6 are Paul, D.Williams, Stuckey, Rose, Parker, and Ellis. If I'm talking nothing but point guards, names like Calderon, Conley, Harris, and Rondo join the club and Bayless looks pretty good.

Things will change with this list, obviously, but this kid can effect a game more intensely than Calderon, Harris, Stuckey, and perhaps Parker in time, too. He has looked like a great point guard numerous times and seems to have no ceiling on his development - shot, defense, whatever, he can do it or already has.

The only hands-down better players on this list are D.Williams and Paul as of right now. Rose seems a sure addition in the immediate future. If someone has a legitimate challenge to this opinion, I'm very interested in it. But Ellis is excelling and improving at an elite level in the NBA already.

This kid is a top 5-7 future lead guard who scores better than all but tow or three others and rebounds better than just about all. What exactly is wrong with that?

Head Leader · Post #16 » by **Head Leader** » Fri May 30, 2008 2:28 am

nothing.

Twinkie defense · Post #19 » by **FNQ** » Fri May 30, 2008 4:48 am

By the by, Tim K on Monta today:

Monta isn