Trade bait...do we have it?

[Blame Rasho]

hindsight is 20/20. i personally didnt like marcus, but that doesnt make him a horrible pick. not a lot of people have stepped up out of that 2nd round yet, and one of them (landry) had red flags on him that made him drop. teams miss players, it happens. its not like there are another dozen players out of that draft that were/are clearly better and the spurs were the only ones to screw it up. lots of misses in that crop at this point.

I think the fact that he didn't make the team says that it was a horriable pick.

[LyMinh]

Both picks last year were horrible picks.

[ss1986v2]

-= original quote snipped =-



I think the fact that he didn't make the team says that it was a horriable pick.

i think that says more about where the team was at that point in time than it does about the pick. we were over the tax line, and probably only could keep one person coming out of camp. and we needed a back-up pg (both vaughn and beno were injured). now marcus didnt help himself out with his play in camp any, but id bet we still would have gone with washington.

remember during camp there was an SAEN article about marcus and how maybe the best place to craft his skill might be in europe for a year or so, because of the spurs roster situation and his poor production thus far? ive always felt that was a bit of CIA pop right there. i think the spurs wanted him to play elsewhere for a time, so they could maintain his rights, but not have to worry about him impacting their tax situation. but he went the same route demetris nichols (who the knicks also wanted to go play overseas) went: deciding he has going to be playing in the nba. and they both ended up cut and in the dleague instead.

[Blame Rasho]

I was just disappointed that he didn't stick even after we signed him later on in the season. I understand why he didn't make the opening day roster. Washington was great and we did need a point guard but it is still unnerving.

[Blame Rasho]

I might as well mention that our picks are quasi trade bait

We have our 1st(26nd), and two seconds 45th and 57th.

Next year we don't have a 1st round pick (Thomas trade) and Houston's 2nd and our 2nd.

I would really be interested in seeing what can our 1st and our 45th and next year Houston pick can net us?

Could we move up to like Denver 20th who has lux tax concerns, or Orlando who doesn't have any 2nd round picks?

I am not sure if any team would be willing to sell their pick? New Jersey?

[tuncaboylu]

I might as well mention that our picks are quasi trade bait

We have our 1st(26nd), and two seconds 45th and 57th.

Next year we don't have a 1st round pick (Thomas trade) and Houston's 2nd and our 2nd.

I would really be interested in seeing what can our 1st and our 45th and next year Houston pick can net us?

Could we move up to like Denver 20th who has lux tax concerns, or Orlando who doesn't have any 2nd round picks?

I am not sure if any team would be willing to sell their pick? New Jersey?

Maybe Portland. They have lots of rookies and draft picks.

[lukeridenour]

we do have the trade exception.. i guess that could count as a trade bait..

[sasaint]

I think we have more assets than several teams. We have 3 draft picks this year. We have the rights to Tiago Splitter. We have a couple of players. We have future draft picks. The Spurs place no value on draft picks, and they gave away Scola, but other teams value picks and players we don't. This team is almost desperate and near the point of no return. Heck, for the right deal, I'd trade Ginobili. In order to get value, you have to give value (unless you are the Lakers).

[sasaint]

I'd be all over it if the Spurs somehow could end up with a roster like:
PG: Tony Parker, Jacques Vaughn
SG: Sasha Vujacic, Brent Barry
SF: Tayshaun Prince, Bruce Bowen/Ime Udoka
PF: Tim Duncan, Ian Mahinmi, Matt Bonner
C: Fab Oberto, Kurt Thomas

That's 11 guys. Fill out the rest of the roster with FAs. To achieve this, I'm counting as GONE:
Robert Horry
Michael Finley
Manu Ginobili
Bruce Bowen/Ime Udoka
rights to Tiago Splitter
1st and (1 or possibly both) 2nd round draft picks this year

However the deals are structured, I think that we're giving up enough assets to acquire the assets I indicate. Perhaps Detroit trades Prince for Manu straight up. Then the Lakers sign Sasha and trade him to us for some combination of Bowen/Udoka, the rights to Splitter, our 1st round pick and possibly a 2nd round pick. That leaves a 2nd round pick to sweeten either deal or use ourselves. That's getting way more value out of the draft than the Spurs usually do.

[Blame Rasho]

The Lakers would never do a sign and trade and jeez... you are way overvaluing Sasha... that is a Memphis like trade for them...

[Blame Rasho]

Also... trading Manu is useless we will never get good value for him...

[Ballings7]

That scenario is too unrealistic, sasaint.

[sasaint]

The Lakers would never do a sign and trade and jeez... you are way overvaluing Sasha... that is a Memphis like trade for them...

A young, athletic Sasha for either Bowen or Udoka plus a late 1st rounder plus rights to a player who cannot play immediately and may never come to the NBA is too much? It sounds pretty reasonable to me. We don't have to offer both the 1st round pick and the rights to Splitter immediately, and if they value Sasha less, then GREAT; we save a "bird in the bush."Have the Lakers told you they wouldn't do a sign and trade?

You apparently think that, despite the evidence, the Spurs can some up with a better player than Sasha in the draft. Yeah, they're great at drafting and developing talent!

[sasaint]

Also... trading Manu is useless we will never get good value for him...

I think Prince is good value. They're both Olympians, albeit on different teams! The Pistons are shopping him. Their contracts are almost identical, except Prince's lasts one more year.

[sasaint]

That scenario is too unrealistic, sasaint.

I'm afraid your mere assertion doesn't convince me. WHY? I think I've shown reasonable value for both teams on both trades. In fact, BLAME RASHO says that I am way OVERVALUING Sasha! On the other deal I'm talking about two Olympians and quasi-stars, Ginobili and Prince heads up or possibly tossing in a late pick by the Spurs!

Have the Pistons or the Lakers told you that these ideas are unrealistic?

BTW, I don't expect either of these trades to go down. I just want to show that we do have assets, if we will only use them, instead of squandering them as we customarily do. These deals were just examples - and realistic ones, I claim (just as you claim they're not.)

Otherwise we are probably looking at the Spurs signing a mediocre FA or two and wasting this year's 3 draft picks on training camp fodder. THAT's the Spurs' MO, and they are on the brink of becoming a non-factor as a consequence.

[Blame Rasho]

The Lakers would never do a sign and trade and jeez... you are way overvaluing Sasha... that is a Memphis like trade for them...

A young, athletic Sasha for either Bowen or Udoka plus a late 1st rounder plus rights to a player who cannot play immediately and may never come to the NBA is too much? It sounds pretty reasonable to me. We don't have to offer both the 1st round pick and the rights to Splitter immediately, and if they value Sasha less, then GREAT; we save a "bird in the bush."Have the Lakers told you they wouldn't do a sign and trade?

You apparently think that, despite the evidence, the Spurs can some up with a better player than Sasha in the draft. Yeah, they're great at drafting and developing talent!

Why would the Lakers want to trade with us? Would we ever want to trade with PHX? Use some logic.

I also happen to think that Sasha sucks... His amazing 5 points and 1 assist career avg is worth more than Bowen, 1st round pick and a big man prospect? He is also a sub 40% career shooter. He is a contract year player. I feel safe that we can get a more productive player than him. The guy shot 30% vs us...

[Blame Rasho]

Also... trading Manu is useless we will never get good value for him...

I think Prince is good value. They're both Olympians, albeit on different teams! The Pistons are shopping him. Their contracts are almost identical, except Prince's lasts one more year.

How is that so? One is without question the leader of a team that has won a MVP and a gold metal. The same guy who is always in the running to be an allstar, the other guy is just a role player.

Why would the Pistons want another shooting guard with Rip and Stucky in the mix without getting another SF back. Manu isn't built for a 82 game grind much less at another position. It isn't like Rip can cover SF either.

There is no team that Manu fits better than with the Spurs.

[sasaint]

Blame Rasho wrote:
Why would the Lakers want to trade with us? Would we ever want to trade with PHX? Use some logic.

I also happen to think that Sasha sucks... His amazing 5 points and 1 assist career avg is worth more than Bowen, 1st round pick and a big man prospect? He is also a sub 40% career shooter. He is a contract year player. I feel safe that we can get a more productive player than him. The guy shot 30% vs us...[/quote]

Why would the Spurs trade Scola to Houston for NADA? To use logic: basically you make a deal with any team when you think it benefits your own. (I admit, just how dumping Scola for NADA to a team in our own division accomplished that remains a mystery!)

Did you watch the Spurs-Lakers series? I think Sasha is starting to reach his potential. We apparently have an honest difference of opinion there. You also have a far better opinion of the Spurs' ability to draft and develop players.

[SMRattler]

That scenario is too unrealistic, sasaint.

I'm afraid your mere assertion doesn't convince me. WHY?

Personally, I think those trades are unrealistic because...

Manu's contract is not THAT bad. In fact, considering what he has done and what he can still do, he's probably a bargain (even at that salary). So, unless you get a guy that can take over offensively like Manu can, one that can play his best when it matters most and knows how to lead his team to victory (this is all based on what he can do when healthy), why would you make that trade? Furthermore, Manu has achieved a status on the history of this team that will have his jersey retired someday. He's still in his prime. The fan reaction factor to removing a beloved player is not taken lightly by this team. Geez, look at the reaction to Malik Rose getting traded as an example. You would think he was an all-NBA player or something the way people reacted. Luckily that trade worked out nicely because Malik was redundent and had a fat contract. Manu is NOT redundent (we need MORE Manu types, not fewer) and can't be replaced easily. The threesome of TP, TD and Manu is someting that has taken time to solidfy as a true "big three" that has won multiple titles.

Lakers... we just played them in the WCF. When do WCF opponents go into the offseason and try to work a trade to help each other get passed the other?

[Blame Rasho]

Why would the Lakers want to trade with us? Would we ever want to trade with PHX? Use some logic.

I also happen to think that Sasha sucks... His amazing 5 points and 1 assist career avg is worth more than Bowen, 1st round pick and a big man prospect? He is also a sub 40% career shooter. He is a contract year player. I feel safe that we can get a more productive player than him. The guy shot 30% vs us...

Why would the Spurs trade Scola to Houston for NADA? To use logic: basically you make a deal with any team when you think it benefits your own. (I admit, just how dumping Scola for NADA to a team in our own division accomplished that remains a mystery!)[/quote]

Lux Tax... We have gone over and over again about it. Holt isn't rich compared to other owners. He is only worth around 80 million and the Spurs didn't want to give Scola the contract that he wanted. Oh and there is talk that he might go back to Europe.

The Lakers/Buss aren't cheap by the way...