ImageImage

06/19 ESPN & DX.com Speculation

Moderators: MickeyDavis, paulpressey25

User avatar
LUKE23
RealGM
Posts: 71,052
And1: 4,824
Joined: May 26, 2005
Location: Stunville
       

Re: 06/19 ESPN & DX.com Speculation 

Post#721 » by LUKE23 » Tue Jun 24, 2008 2:05 pm

I like Battier too, but there is absolutely no way in hell I'd move #8 for him. The guy is going to be 30 next season and isn't getting any better than he is, a 10/5 guy who can play defense. Now, if you're talking about a separate deal to land him without using the pick, then I'm fine with it.

This team needs to keep increasing the talent base, and anyone at 8 has a higher ceiling than Battier does.
User avatar
Rockmaninoff
General Manager
Posts: 7,649
And1: 1,666
Joined: Jan 11, 2008
   

Re: 06/19 ESPN & DX.com Speculation 

Post#722 » by Rockmaninoff » Tue Jun 24, 2008 2:35 pm

Will Perdude wrote:
And the Randolph love on here is getting creepy. I see a black Skitavilli. I see a 6'10 project with some obvious skills who hasn't proved anything on the court, but has enough obvious basketball tools that it becomes easy to fall in love with his potential. And sometimes that risk is worth taking. Especially at #8 and lower. But where we are at as a franchise and a new regime, I think we need a team like the old Huggins Cincinati teams with 12 juco transfers and ex cons battling for every loose ball and rebound. Know what I'm saying? We need to change the culture around the Bucks. We need tough guys with man bodies to battle. And Randolph isn't that guy for another 2 or 3 years. So even if Randolph develops in to a very good player in 3 years, I'm not sure if we are in a position where we can redshirt a guy for that long. We need a jolt of strength, toughness, desire, effort, and guys that care. That's why I'm not against trading CV and/or Yi. They are finese. And we need ghetto nasty.


I think that's why Ruffin and Storey were so effective last season. They did the dirty work.

I'm guessing that is also why we are bringing in so many guys who will potentially go mid-late second round/undrafted.

Nice post.

EDIT to add:

"You want good players, obviously, but we definitely have a certain identity, and that's tough-minded players who aren't afraid to mix it up," Ronzone said. "You need good players to win, but they have to be good fits for your team, too. We've been very fortunate to find a lot of good players who were good Pistons."

http://www.mlive.com/pistons/index.ssf/ ... d_dra.html

I'm sure Hammond is thinking along those lines.
MilBucksBackOnTop06 wrote:The fight for civil rights just like for liberty and justice and peace won't be won by man. It will take a god...so lets move on to sports.

Magic Giannison wrote:Giannis is god but even god's cannot save our **** team.
User avatar
paul
RealGM
Posts: 32,400
And1: 1,034
Joined: Dec 11, 2007
 

Re: 06/19 ESPN & DX.com Speculation 

Post#723 » by paul » Tue Jun 24, 2008 3:24 pm

LUKE23 wrote:I like Battier too, but there is absolutely no way in hell I'd move #8 for him. The guy is going to be 30 next season and isn't getting any better than he is, a 10/5 guy who can play defense. Now, if you're talking about a separate deal to land him without using the pick, then I'm fine with it.

This team needs to keep increasing the talent base, and anyone at 8 has a higher ceiling than Battier does.


Yep sorry if I implied I'd use the #8 to get him, it wasn't my thought at all, although I'm also happy to use the 8 to get an experienced player, but I'd be inclined to package it up with Yi, CV or Redd to get a star (think Brand, Boozer etc) or move up to the #2. Actually I think Mo is the key to going after Battier - the Rockets need to shake it up a little bit and having a scoring point is the obvious move to take some heat off TMac imo, I'd definitely package up Mo and whatever else is needed - maybe Des' expiring or CV, and maybe someone like Head comes back?
With Battier it's not about his points and rebounds - it's about changing the culture of this team. He's a scrapper, a lockdown defender, a very hard worker, a solid citizen - everything this team desperately needs. It doesn't hurt that he can hit the open 3, run the floor and rebound reasonably well. He might only be good for another couple of years, but in that time the cultural change he and others bring in could be what we need to move into contention and you can't put a price on that.
User avatar
Bernman
RealGM
Posts: 24,486
And1: 5,436
Joined: Aug 05, 2004
Location: Into the Great White Nothing
     

Re: 06/19 ESPN & DX.com Speculation 

Post#724 » by Bernman » Tue Jun 24, 2008 3:36 pm

Wade-A-Holic wrote:It was Horford's rookie year in a league that rookies are never very productive. I'd say he did a very nice job anchoring the middle for a Hawks team that didn't have much of anything else inside. Is he a superstar? No, but he's an incredibly valuable player for almost any team.


I think that's what most were asserting. Maybe not quite as high on him as you. It's fair to say he has less upside than most in the last draft when he was one of the more experience guys taken in the lotto, he has a very stiff looking shot, and little touch in the post. Oakley was a very salient comparison at the time made by guys like Mike (Supreme) and myself.
"TRADE GIANNIS" - Magic Giannison
User avatar
Bernman
RealGM
Posts: 24,486
And1: 5,436
Joined: Aug 05, 2004
Location: Into the Great White Nothing
     

Re: 06/19 ESPN & DX.com Speculation 

Post#725 » by Bernman » Tue Jun 24, 2008 3:42 pm

Wise1 wrote:Yeah
mcfromage wrote:
Wise1 wrote:Reading that Sportsbubbler blog and also knowing that Alexandar was brought back in for a second look, I think the Bucks have found out that Randolph...their promise guy...will be off of the board by pick 8. I now think Bayless will fall to the Bucks at 8. I think they'd rather trade, but if forced to keep the 8, it'll be interesting to see if they value a talent like Bayless over a guys like Alexandar and Green...talents that fit needs.


If Bayless falls to us I'd be more then happy to grab him. ESPN the Mag has him falling to us as well.


Yeah. I'd be extremely pleased with Bayless despite the fact that he's more of an offensive pg. I'd liken him to a guy like Monte Ellis. Explosive athlete that can stroke it and get to the rim and finish with funk.

Mo is a shoot first point guard that's not nearly as explosive athletically as guys like Bayless and Ellis. I think that's what separates Mo from these guys...that an the fact that by default, they're better defenders than Mo.


I've seen the comparisons to Ellis before, but Monta is unparalleled in his ability to glide to the rim almost in one motion and attack the cup before anybody can react. You rarely saw Bayless actually dunk in the frontcourt in spite of his athleticism. Actually, Bayless reminds me more of a poor man's B-Diddy. Similar more power first step, not really a glider but can get into that mid-range area with ease and draw contact. Pretty good outside shooter. Pretty good defender. He's poor man's in the areas of bulk and vision.
"TRADE GIANNIS" - Magic Giannison
fam3381
General Manager
Posts: 7,563
And1: 127
Joined: Jun 07, 2005
Location: Austin

Re: 06/19 ESPN & DX.com Speculation 

Post#726 » by fam3381 » Tue Jun 24, 2008 3:50 pm

Bernman wrote:Oakley was a very salient comparison at the time made by guys like Mike (Supreme) and myself.


I pictured Al as more of a Ho. Grant type, so I agree that Al/Oak could also have similar type careers. I think Horford has a bit more upside than Oakley just because he's bigger and a little more athletic...Horford will actually block some shots and dunk on guys. But Oak (and Grant) also had that nice mid-range shot which Horford hasn't added to his game (yet). I can't remember Oak ever really playing center for the Knicks with Ewing around, maybe he did earlier in his career but I never saw him on the Bulls. Same for Grant.

I'm curious to see what Al will do if/when he gets to play mostly as a PF.
Retired Bucks blogger. Occasional Bucks podcaster.
User avatar
Bernman
RealGM
Posts: 24,486
And1: 5,436
Joined: Aug 05, 2004
Location: Into the Great White Nothing
     

Re: 06/19 ESPN & DX.com Speculation 

Post#727 » by Bernman » Tue Jun 24, 2008 3:53 pm

fam3381 wrote:
Bernman wrote:Oakley was a very salient comparison at the time made by guys like Mike (Supreme) and myself.


I pictured Al as more of a Ho. Grant type, so I agree that Al/Oak could also have similar type careers. I think Horford has a bit more upside than Oakley just because he's bigger and a little more athletic...Horford will actually block some shots and dunk on guys. But Oak (and Grant) also had that nice mid-range shot which Horford hasn't added to his game (yet). I can't remember Oak ever really playing center for the Knicks with Ewing around, maybe he did earlier in his career but I never saw him on the Bulls. Same for Grant.

I'm curious to see what Al will do if/when he gets to play mostly as a PF.


Fam, I actually made the Ho Grant comparison too pre-draft.
"TRADE GIANNIS" - Magic Giannison
User avatar
ReasonablySober
Retired Mod
Retired Mod
Posts: 84,109
And1: 23,701
Joined: Dec 02, 2001
Location: Cheap dinner. Watch basketball. Bone down.
Contact:

Re: 06/19 ESPN & DX.com Speculation 

Post#728 » by ReasonablySober » Tue Jun 24, 2008 4:03 pm

Oakley was the guy I saw when I envisioned the type of career Horford would have. I can understand why some were so gung-ho for him prior to the draft but if I'm picking in the top five I want a Dude and not a complimentary piece.
User avatar
wichmae
RealGM
Posts: 16,521
And1: 968
Joined: Feb 22, 2005
Location: Milwaukee

Re: 06/19 ESPN & DX.com Speculation 

Post#729 » by wichmae » Tue Jun 24, 2008 4:05 pm

LUKE23 wrote:
wichmae wrote:Sorry, just some of you guys are really going over board...

Honestly...


If you're going to continuously spout one-liners calling people out, and saying people are overrating guys, then you're going to have to backup your stance. Just because you claim to have inside info doesn't make your opinion any more valid than anyone else's.

Back up these kind of claims if you're going to spout off.


I never said you had to believe me. I never said to take my word as gold. I have backed up my claims before in the past. Skiles hiring, Weltman hiring, and the large debate you all had on who wanted Redd drafting before us. "My little one liner" said NY and LAC. All of a sudden its being written two days later in the paper about that. You dont have to believe a word I say. I dont care. I do know there are people who appreciate knowing something is brewing and thats all the intent was from the very first post.
User avatar
Lippo
Lead Assistant
Posts: 5,650
And1: 861
Joined: Jun 15, 2006

Re: 06/19 ESPN & DX.com Speculation 

Post#730 » by Lippo » Tue Jun 24, 2008 4:56 pm

...I had us taking Monta Ellis in my mock that year...

2-3 Trades and we look good.

Mo/(2009 Lot Prot 1st) to Portland for Priz/Webster/#13
CV/#8 to Minnesota for Madsen/#3
Redd/Bell/Gadz/Simmons to Cleveland for Wallace/Snow/Smith/#19

Things to mention - Webster is as young as Joe Alexnder and has proved can score 20ppg
Redd for #19 to dump 2 bad contracts and inherit tough defensive mindset. Wallace can be traded 2010 as huge expiring.

#3 Mayo/Beasley
#13 Randolph/Alexander/Rush
#19 Speights/Ajinca/Jordan
#37Giddens/Weems/Weaver

Mid-Level- Kenyon Dooling

Sessions/Dooling/Snow
Mayo/Giddens/Snow
Webster/Randolph/Illyasova
Yi/Speights/Wallace/Smith/Madsen
Bogut/Wallace/Priz

Great cap situation in 2010
User avatar
LUKE23
RealGM
Posts: 71,052
And1: 4,824
Joined: May 26, 2005
Location: Stunville
       

Re: 06/19 ESPN & DX.com Speculation 

Post#731 » by LUKE23 » Tue Jun 24, 2008 5:00 pm

Since when has Webster proved he can be a 20 ppg scorer? He's gone from 6.6 to 7.0 to 10.7, while shooting a robust 40.8% in the process.

Minny won't give us 3 for CV/8.
User avatar
mcfromage
Veteran
Posts: 2,654
And1: 656
Joined: May 03, 2007
Location: California

Re: 06/19 ESPN & DX.com Speculation 

Post#732 » by mcfromage » Tue Jun 24, 2008 5:17 pm

I'd rather have Outlaw then Webster.
User avatar
Lippo
Lead Assistant
Posts: 5,650
And1: 861
Joined: Jun 15, 2006

Re: 06/19 ESPN & DX.com Speculation 

Post#733 » by Lippo » Tue Jun 24, 2008 5:33 pm

LUKE23 wrote:Since when has Webster proved he can be a 20 ppg scorer? He's gone from 6.6 to 7.0 to 10.7, while shooting a robust 40.8% in the process.

Minny won't give us 3 for CV/8.


If he played 35 min a game he would shoot 43-44% and score 18 while shooting 35% from 3pt and
80% FT%

He will end up going to Pheonix, and once Nash and Shaq are gone, I'll bet Webster ends up being a 22-25pt a night guy along with Amare

I like Outlaw alot too, but they need him at SF for defense, Webster is more of a scorer, i saw him score like 20-25 in 1 quarter this year
midranger
RealGM
Posts: 36,248
And1: 7,709
Joined: May 12, 2002

Re: 06/19 ESPN & DX.com Speculation 

Post#734 » by midranger » Tue Jun 24, 2008 9:05 pm

I just talked to my inside source.

Guys, sit down. There are things being discussed, lots of things. Some big, some small. Some nothing at all. In the draft we will either move up, stay put, move back, or deal out. Of this, I'm sure. I can't give you anymore, though I wish I could. Some people are on the right track with their proposals even while being totally wrong. If the Bucks do stay at 8, there is a player that they will draft. I can also tell you with a certain degree of probability that there will be a trade at some point. I can't get into to specifics obviously, but rest assured phones are ringing somewhere. Some of you will be disappointed, while the rest will not be.

Oh wait, I was wrong. Or was I?

One thing is for sure, I'll be proven right after this all plays out.
Please reconsider your animal consumption.
User avatar
ReasonablySober
Retired Mod
Retired Mod
Posts: 84,109
And1: 23,701
Joined: Dec 02, 2001
Location: Cheap dinner. Watch basketball. Bone down.
Contact:

Re: 06/19 ESPN & DX.com Speculation 

Post#735 » by ReasonablySober » Tue Jun 24, 2008 9:08 pm

midranger wrote:I just talked to my inside source.

Guys, sit down. There are things being discussed, lots of things. Some big, some small. Some nothing at all. In the draft we will either move up, stay put, move back, or deal out. Of this, I'm sure. I can't give you anymore, though I wish I could. Some people are on the right track with their proposals even while being totally wrong. If the Bucks do stay at 8, there is a player that they will draft. I can also tell you with a certain degree of probability that there will be a trade at some point. I can't get into to specifics obviously, but rest assured phones are ringing somewhere. Some of you will be disappointed, while the rest will not be.

Oh wait, I was wrong. Or was I?

One thing is for sure, I'll be proven right after this all plays out.


:lol:
Sigra
RealGM
Posts: 14,744
And1: 848
Joined: Sep 08, 2005
Location: Sarajevo, Bosnia
       

Re: 06/19 ESPN & DX.com Speculation 

Post#736 » by Sigra » Tue Jun 24, 2008 9:16 pm

Actually wichmae told us a lot. Read between lines. He told us that the goal is to win now. He told us that we are going to trade our pick. Many people value this draft class so he told us that many will be disapointed and then he told us that most of us overate some players. It is rather clear for me that he was talking about guys who are going to be rookies next year because he said that after people had discusion about those players. Same when he told us that many will be disapointed.

We are not going to draft player for us people. That's rather clear by now. We are in win now mode and rookies are not part of that. Skiles is here to win. Not to rebuild. Hammond is here to win. Kohl is too old to try from begining.

Everything that wichmae said in this thread point to "win now" mode. Read from begining if you can. Everything. We are trading pick together with players for veteran help. If I have to guess I would say that our package is #8, CV, Mason and our target is veteran SF like Prince or Jaferson.
User avatar
Fort Minor
Lead Assistant
Posts: 4,722
And1: 70
Joined: Sep 29, 2005
       

Re: 06/19 ESPN & DX.com Speculation 

Post#737 » by Fort Minor » Tue Jun 24, 2008 9:37 pm

Sigra wrote:Actually wichmae told us a lot. Read between lines. He told us that the goal is to win now. He told us that we are going to trade our pick. Many people value this draft class so he told us that many will be disapointed and then he told us that most of us overate some players. It is rather clear for me that he was talking about guys who are going to be rookies next year because he said that after people had discusion about those players. Same when he told us that many will be disapointed.

We are not going to draft player for us people. That's rather clear by now. We are in win now mode and rookies are not part of that. Skiles is here to win. Not to rebuild. Hammond is here to win. Kohl is too old to try from begining.

Everything that wichmae said in this thread point to "win now" mode. Read from begining if you can. Everything. We are trading pick together with players for veteran help. If I have to guess I would say that our package is #8, CV, Mason and our target is veteran SF like Prince or Jaferson.


You might be spot on with everything else, but wichmae also pointed out that our intents may be foiled dependant on what other teams do (namely Miami I think). So there's still a small chance that we actually pick at 8.
BuckPack wrote:People still listen to Gery?
User avatar
LUKE23
RealGM
Posts: 71,052
And1: 4,824
Joined: May 26, 2005
Location: Stunville
       

Re: 06/19 ESPN & DX.com Speculation 

Post#738 » by LUKE23 » Tue Jun 24, 2008 9:44 pm

Call me crazy, but I don't think CV/Alexander/Mason's expiring for Prince or RJ is that great of a deal for us if that is indeed what goes down.
Sigra
RealGM
Posts: 14,744
And1: 848
Joined: Sep 08, 2005
Location: Sarajevo, Bosnia
       

Re: 06/19 ESPN & DX.com Speculation 

Post#739 » by Sigra » Tue Jun 24, 2008 9:51 pm

Lets go in details:

Ok, there as of right now looks to be a trade about done and no it doesnt involve Bogut or Yi.
Expect right now there will be a draft night deal of some sort.


This post alone made one strong point: "we are not drafting player at #8 for us". We eather trade up, down or out. That post establish that. Because if we are drafting #8 for us than we don't need to make draft night deal.

I had to wait when i broke out the Skiles, Weltman hirings. I also had to wait on a couple other things that I announced (Knicks/Clippers coveting Redd).


Here wichmae remind us that he really has inside informations. He really did those things.

Expect moves done rapidly before training camp so Skiles has his roster just about set to install his schemes.


hmmm looks like win now mode. If we are in rebuilding mode then there would not be emphasis on Skiles and his schemes. Skiles is here to win indeed.

It takes two to tango and they could eventually get more value with their package if a team somehow gets desperate.


There is package? Thank you wichmae

Mo is still BYC until after the moratorium so it makes anything involving him difficult if they even decide to go that route.


So it's not Mo. Earlier we find out it is not Bogut and it is not Yi eather.

I guess I was wrong. I think some of you are going to be in for a sad draft night.


First I thought that he was talking about his earlier predictions. But as Jerrod said there was not much time to change that that much. And after I saw his attittude after that it makes more sanse that he was talking about being wrong about people being happy with future trade. Now, you have to look what was common theme of people that posted before that. It was by far how much all of them value pick. Pick is going to be traded and we are not geting young player. Therefore it looks like many people will be sad at draft night.

I hope whatever trade is made helps us NOW.


This is part of aaprigs311's post that wichmae bolded. If that is not tip then I don't know what is

One poster a lil bit back actually was on to something but some of you guys are WAY off


And wichmae even quoted that poster and bolded one part of his post. But we are blind aren't we

Alot of you guys are going to be disappointed come draft night...


This came after few pages of talk about how great talent is there at #8. We are not playing rookie next year people. At least not from lotery.

I never said who we made a promise to if we keep the pick.


He bolded IF here. Note that he doesn't bold much

Listen, all you have to do to figure out the unknown is to group the knowns together and look big picture.


Big picture? Big picture is about strategy/direction. Everything we saw so far (knowns) point in win now direction. Especially Skiles.

I also never said the disappointment would be exactly about who we draft either


Yup. Disappointment will be about direction. A lot of people in this thread showed their love for rebuilding direction. They will be disappointed.

one would think that if we were trying to attain another pick of some sort we would work out prospects around that draft range right.


So we are not trying to keep #8 and yet we are not aiming at other picks eather. Win Now. No rookies next year. Trading pick for vetaran help.
User avatar
paulpressey25
Senior Mod - Bucks
Senior Mod - Bucks
Posts: 57,662
And1: 19,375
Joined: Oct 27, 2002
     

Re: 06/19 ESPN & DX.com Speculation 

Post#740 » by paulpressey25 » Tue Jun 24, 2008 9:52 pm

That may be why he thinks people might be disappointed. Might be a deal of 8 or something else to bring in a ho hum veteran like Haslem or Jeff Foster. But the deal would bring some toughness and would be better for our cap.

Who knows. Mid's post a page back was classic.
In depth discussions here - shorter stuff on Twitter

https://twitter.com/paulpressey25

Return to Milwaukee Bucks