The future of the Sac Kings....

[SacKingZZZ]

Yeah, let's ignore the fact that Ron has gone out of his way to help develop younger players in the past and that he doesn't really directly stand in the way of any young players' playing time as much as Brad does.

The very first time we benched the starting unit when they were playing in a rather pathetic manner he began to stink about the mouth in front of the media. I don't blame him but if it becomes a regular habit he is Ron Artest and there goes a ton of "value" in the eyes of other GM's. Fair or not, it is the reality of the situation.

[pillwenney]

Yeah, let's ignore the fact that Ron has gone out of his way to help develop younger players in the past and that he doesn't really directly stand in the way of any young players' playing time as much as Brad does.

The very first time we benched the starting unit when they were playing in a rather pathetic manner he began to stink about the mouth in front of the media. I don't blame him but if it becomes a regular habit he is Ron Artest and there goes a ton of "value" in the eyes of other GM's. Fair or not, it is the reality of the situation.

Saying that he basically thinks the team should play the players that give them the best chance to win isn't really "making a stink" and it certainly doesn't lower his value.

[SacKingZZZ]

Yeah, let's ignore the fact that Ron has gone out of his way to help develop younger players in the past and that he doesn't really directly stand in the way of any young players' playing time as much as Brad does.

The very first time we benched the starting unit when they were playing in a rather pathetic manner he began to stink about the mouth in front of the media. I don't blame him but if it becomes a regular habit he is Ron Artest and there goes a ton of "value" in the eyes of other GM's. Fair or not, it is the reality of the situation.

Saying that he basically thinks the team should play the players that give them the best chance to win isn't really "making a stink" and it certainly doesn't lower his value.

If your name is Ron Artest it is, even if you really aren't making much of one it will be placed on that level. And IMO he was wrong. They didn't deserve to finish the game, at a certain point you just aren't getting the job done and it's time to move forward at that point and do something that may benefit the franchise in some way.

[Raptors90102]

Some you guys aren't giving Thompson enough credit. I have seen this kid play, he'll be a pretty similar player to Lamarcus Aldridge, Jermain Oneal and Chris Bosh on offense and his defense, although not high calibre, will be adequate. He won't be a superstar, but in 2-3 year's time, he'll be a legit 20/10 guy, guaranteed.

[UKF]

^ Good to here. Hopefully your right.

I'm one of the people that were fans of the pick, but I definitely was surprised. Thanks for the good words. Many of us haven't seen him play. All we have seen are scouting reports and youtube clips, but from what Petrie and Theus have said, they are in love with this kid. He was the ''unanimous" decision among those who decided on who the Kings were drafting. He sounds like a really good guy (after interviews I've heard with him) I'm always a fan of that. Hopefully you, Geoff, and Reggie will be right!

[bibby1023]

*To clear up my personal stance on Thompson, I'm okay with the pick. I'm just very very very very disappointed he was our only pick* (2nd rounder's don't really count that much since we don't even know if they'll make the team)

thats just wrong if singletary doesn't get a position on the team, especially if Beno walks, and we only have like one point guard on the roster, then the kings front office is (Please Use More Appropriate Word).

[BMiller52]

Don't sign players like Mikki Moore over their value and assign the freed budget to buying picks or moving up, this money argument is short sighted, it's a budget thing and Petrie's job to run it, the Kings have a pretty high payroll for a rebuilding team, I see a lot of generosity from the owners' side.
I don't know if Petrie was interested in Bayless, but if he was and let that slip, that was a big screw up, I'll just assume he wasn't.

I actually wouldn't be surprised if Mikki was traded. The way Geoff structured his deal, he's pretty valuable. He has a buy out clause for like 2 million dollars next year, so he's sort of like an expiring contract. I wouldn't be surprised if he was a key piece in a trade that brings us a nice young PG+a bad contract.

[Raptors90102]

^ Good to here. Hopefully your right.

I'm one of the people that were fans of the pick, but I definitely was surprised. Thanks for the good words. Many of us haven't seen him play. All we have seen are scouting reports and youtube clips, but from what Petrie and Theus have said, they are in love with this kid. He was the ''unanimous" decision among those who decided on who the Kings were drafting. He sounds like a really good guy (after interviews I've heard with him) I'm always a fan of that. Hopefully you, Geoff, and Reggie will be right!

No problem, man. The ONLY problem I see in regards to Thompson or any of your young guys is that Reggie might not give them enough chances to get PT. I think if you guys really want to committ to building a strong core, you gotta ship Brad Miller and Artest out and start rebuilding around KMart-Hawes-Thompson. Lets face it, you guys aren't going anywhere especially cuz the contracts of SAR and Thomas are going to hold you back from making any meaningful deals for FA's or Star players. And you guys aren't making the playoffs with KMart-Artest-Thompson-Hawes-Miller anytime soon. So might as well trade Miller and Artest while they're still on contracts and get some assests/picks for them. And build your way through the draft and once SAR and KThomas becoming expirings or expire,then you make a couple of big signing to bring in some legit help.

Until then, give as much PT to Thompson and Hawes and let them develop during games. By the time the big 2010 Off season arrives, you guys would have stocked pile a lot more talent through the next 2 drafts (considering you will get high enough picks thanks to a bad record) and then you go in a full-fledge playoff push. Until then, its no use keeping guys like Artest and Miller on the roster while being out of the playoff picture every year and being a medicre enough team to not make the playoffs and not being bad enough to land a high draft pick.

And yeah, I am RARELY wrong about my draft projections and talent analysis Last year I was shaking my head when Al Thornton slipped all the way to 14 just cuz he was 23 years old. I told people 3 months before the draft that Thornton alongside Horford-Durant-Oden will have the best pro career out of the entire class. And now, Clippers seem to be building around him. I also said that in the long run, Horford would be a better player than Oden and Durant, and I am still sticking to it. The jury's still out on Oden and Durant hasn't really impressed me much.

Out of this year's class, I am ranking the following guys as sure shot studs : Rose, Beasely, Thompson, Mayo and Rush. Whereas players like Hibbert and Augustine are going to have very solid careers. I would have also picked Hickson, but seeing how he'll be playing in Cleveland and will probably be buried on the bench behind wallace, Joe Smith, Z and Sideshow bob, he won't get much PT to make an impact.

[BMiller52]

^ Good to here. Hopefully your right.

I'm one of the people that were fans of the pick, but I definitely was surprised. Thanks for the good words. Many of us haven't seen him play. All we have seen are scouting reports and youtube clips, but from what Petrie and Theus have said, they are in love with this kid. He was the ''unanimous" decision among those who decided on who the Kings were drafting. He sounds like a really good guy (after interviews I've heard with him) I'm always a fan of that. Hopefully you, Geoff, and Reggie will be right!

No problem, man. The ONLY problem I see in regards to Thompson or any of your young guys is that Reggie might not give them enough chances to get PT. I think if you guys really want to committ to building a strong core, you gotta ship Brad Miller and Artest out and start rebuilding around KMart-Hawes-Thompson. Lets face it, you guys aren't going anywhere especially cuz the contracts of SAR and Thomas are going to hold you back from making any meaningful deals for FA's or Star players. And you guys aren't making the playoffs with KMart-Artest-Thompson-Hawes-Miller anytime soon. So might as well trade Miller and Artest while they're still on contracts and get some assests/picks for them. And build your way through the draft and once SAR and KThomas becoming expirings or expire,then you make a couple of big signing to bring in some legit help.

Until then, give as much PT to Thompson and Hawes and let them develop during games. By the time the big 2010 Off season arrives, you guys would have stocked pile a lot more talent through the next 2 drafts (considering you will get high enough picks thanks to a bad record) and then you go in a full-fledge playoff push. Until then, its no use keeping guys like Artest and Miller on the roster while being out of the playoff picture every year and being a medicre enough team to not make the playoffs and not being bad enough to land a high draft pick.

And yeah, I am RARELY wrong about my draft projections and talent analysis Last year I was shaking my head when Al Thornton slipped all the way to 14 just cuz he was 23 years old. I told people 3 months before the draft that Thornton alongside Horford-Durant-Oden will have the best pro career out of the entire class. And now, Clippers seem to be building around him. I also said that in the long run, Horford would be a better player than Oden and Durant, and I am still sticking to it. The jury's still out on Oden and Durant hasn't really impressed me much.

Out of this year's class, I am ranking the following guys as sure shot studs : Rose, Beasely, Thompson, Mayo and Rush. Whereas players like Hibbert and Augustine are going to have very solid careers. I would have also picked Hickson, but seeing how he'll be playing in Cleveland and will probably be buried on the bench behind wallace, Joe Smith, Z and Sideshow bob, he won't get much PT to make an impact.

I'm not sure on Artest, but I think Miller definitely needs to go. We have some young bigs, might as well play them, he has some value now too. Also I'd like to see us deal for 1 of Memphis's young PGs(Lowry/Critt) or sign a guy like Louis Williams/Gibson.

[VeeJay24]

I think the future has to be without Miller or Artest. Even if you just get 1st rd draft picks I would do it. There is no reason to keep these guys around if you're not going anywhere. Not only does it help your young guys by giving them on the job training it gives Reggie extra time by signaling to him that we are in full rebuild mode. Just develop these young guys.............

Also, I think we are paying the price for not drafting a more polished PG instead of a combo/developmental type PG (Douby) in 2006.

[Ballings7]

Because of his age, John Salmons should be lumped in with the Artest/Miller talk - but, I see the collectivity is that he isn't... is it because John's not enough of veteran with his years in the league, or is it because, that indication of "wanting to win" isn't there as much from him?

But yeah, out of the two, Artest would probably be the one to go. I don't think Ron "has to go" at all, but one of Salmons/Ron will eventually need to go. So with the options and possibilities that are present extending from June 30th to next year, Ron probably will be the one who is gone.

Also, I think we are paying the price for not drafting a more polished PG instead of a combo/developmental type PG (Douby) in 2006.

I agree, and with what has happened with Bibby since that season, to our PG situation at this moment, is partly why I wanted us to draft Lowry (love him) or Rondo over Douby.

Saying that he basically thinks the team should play the players that give them the best chance to win isn't really "making a stink" and it certainly doesn't lower his value.

Agreed. Especially because if he would be traded, it'd be to a different situation. They look at him relating to their team, not relating to us.

[VeeJay24]

Because of his age, John Salmons should be lumped in with the Artest/Miller talk - but, I see the collectivity is that he isn't... is it because John's not enough of veteran with his years in the league, or is it because, that indication of "wanting to win" isn't there as much from him?

But yeah, out of the two, Artest would probably be the one to go. I don't think Ron "has to go" at all, but one of Salmons/Ron will eventually need to go. So with the options and possibilities that are present extending from June 30th to next year, Ron probably will be the one who is gone.

Also, I think we are paying the price for not drafting a more polished PG instead of a combo/developmental type PG (Douby) in 2006.

I agree, and with what has happened with Bibby since that season, to our PG situation at this moment, is partly why I wanted us to draft Lowry (love him) or Rondo over Douby.

Saying that he basically thinks the team should play the players that give them the best chance to win isn't really "making a stink" and it certainly doesn't lower his value.

Agreed. Especially because if he would be traded, it'd be to a different situation. They look at him relating to their team, not relating to us.

I also believe Salmons should be moved as well

Definitely, the case with Lowry and Rondo also in that draft that went after Douby were Williams, Farmar and Rodriquez. I have been screaming about this for 2 yrs. The bad or good thing about this is we probably can still get 1 of these guys with a trade............

[pumuki]

Would the Kings be interested in some deal with the Grizz ?

Artest xx Lowry/Crittenton and Jaric ?

Regards

[BMiller52]

Would the Kings be interested in some deal with the Grizz ?

Artest xx Lowry/Crittenton and Jaric ?

Regards

Lowry/Crittenton don't hold the type of value to get Artest by themselves, especially not with the awful contract of Jaric. And Ron wouldn't want to play on a team as bad as the Grizzlies, plus you already have a SF.

If you just want an expiring contract you can have Moore instead tho

[KF10]

Would the Kings be interested in some deal with the Grizz ?

Artest xx Lowry/Crittenton and Jaric ?

Regards

Lowry/Crittenton don't hold the type of value to get Artest by themselves, especially not with the awful contract of Jaric. And Ron wouldn't want to play on a team as bad as the Grizzlies, plus you already have a SF.

If you just want an expiring contract you can have Moore instead tho

Agreed. If you guys still had Mike Miller, you could have package him with Lowry/Critt. The value should be alot closer IMO.

[KingInExile]

^ Good to here. Hopefully your right.

I'm one of the people that were fans of the pick, but I definitely was surprised. Thanks for the good words. Many of us haven't seen him play. All we have seen are scouting reports and youtube clips, but from what Petrie and Theus have said, they are in love with this kid. He was the ''unanimous" decision among those who decided on who the Kings were drafting. He sounds like a really good guy (after interviews I've heard with him) I'm always a fan of that. Hopefully you, Geoff, and Reggie will be right!

No problem, man. The ONLY problem I see in regards to Thompson or any of your young guys is that Reggie might not give them enough chances to get PT. I think if you guys really want to committ to building a strong core, you gotta ship Brad Miller and Artest out and start rebuilding around KMart-Hawes-Thompson. Lets face it, you guys aren't going anywhere especially cuz the contracts of SAR and Thomas are going to hold you back from making any meaningful deals for FA's or Star players. And you guys aren't making the playoffs with KMart-Artest-Thompson-Hawes-Miller anytime soon. So might as well trade Miller and Artest while they're still on contracts and get some assests/picks for them. And build your way through the draft and once SAR and KThomas becoming expirings or expire,then you make a couple of big signing to bring in some legit help.

Until then, give as much PT to Thompson and Hawes and let them develop during games. By the time the big 2010 Off season arrives, you guys would have stocked pile a lot more talent through the next 2 drafts (considering you will get high enough picks thanks to a bad record) and then you go in a full-fledge playoff push. Until then, its no use keeping guys like Artest and Miller on the roster while being out of the playoff picture every year and being a medicre enough team to not make the playoffs and not being bad enough to land a high draft pick.

And yeah, I am RARELY wrong about my draft projections and talent analysis Last year I was shaking my head when Al Thornton slipped all the way to 14 just cuz he was 23 years old. I told people 3 months before the draft that Thornton alongside Horford-Durant-Oden will have the best pro career out of the entire class. And now, Clippers seem to be building around him. I also said that in the long run, Horford would be a better player than Oden and Durant, and I am still sticking to it. The jury's still out on Oden and Durant hasn't really impressed me much.

Out of this year's class, I am ranking the following guys as sure shot studs : Rose, Beasely, Thompson, Mayo and Rush. Whereas players like Hibbert and Augustine are going to have very solid careers. I would have also picked Hickson, but seeing how he'll be playing in Cleveland and will probably be buried on the bench behind wallace, Joe Smith, Z and Sideshow bob, he won't get much PT to make an impact.

Good analysis...let's see if it holds true.

I do have to disagree with the implication that Reggie "might not give" Thompson PT. The philosophy he worked on last year was that PT is earned, not given. And as we saw with Hawes last year, if a guy works his butt off in practice and takes advantage of opportunities he's given during games, he will be rewarded with a bigger role. Thompson will have to earn minutes the same way this next season. From what I've heard about his work ethic and drive, he will earn those minutes.

[Raptors90102]

^ Good to here. Hopefully your right.

I'm one of the people that were fans of the pick, but I definitely was surprised. Thanks for the good words. Many of us haven't seen him play. All we have seen are scouting reports and youtube clips, but from what Petrie and Theus have said, they are in love with this kid. He was the ''unanimous" decision among those who decided on who the Kings were drafting. He sounds like a really good guy (after interviews I've heard with him) I'm always a fan of that. Hopefully you, Geoff, and Reggie will be right!

No problem, man. The ONLY problem I see in regards to Thompson or any of your young guys is that Reggie might not give them enough chances to get PT. I think if you guys really want to committ to building a strong core, you gotta ship Brad Miller and Artest out and start rebuilding around KMart-Hawes-Thompson. Lets face it, you guys aren't going anywhere especially cuz the contracts of SAR and Thomas are going to hold you back from making any meaningful deals for FA's or Star players. And you guys aren't making the playoffs with KMart-Artest-Thompson-Hawes-Miller anytime soon. So might as well trade Miller and Artest while they're still on contracts and get some assests/picks for them. And build your way through the draft and once SAR and KThomas becoming expirings or expire,then you make a couple of big signing to bring in some legit help.

Until then, give as much PT to Thompson and Hawes and let them develop during games. By the time the big 2010 Off season arrives, you guys would have stocked pile a lot more talent through the next 2 drafts (considering you will get high enough picks thanks to a bad record) and then you go in a full-fledge playoff push. Until then, its no use keeping guys like Artest and Miller on the roster while being out of the playoff picture every year and being a medicre enough team to not make the playoffs and not being bad enough to land a high draft pick.

And yeah, I am RARELY wrong about my draft projections and talent analysis Last year I was shaking my head when Al Thornton slipped all the way to 14 just cuz he was 23 years old. I told people 3 months before the draft that Thornton alongside Horford-Durant-Oden will have the best pro career out of the entire class. And now, Clippers seem to be building around him. I also said that in the long run, Horford would be a better player than Oden and Durant, and I am still sticking to it. The jury's still out on Oden and Durant hasn't really impressed me much.

Out of this year's class, I am ranking the following guys as sure shot studs : Rose, Beasely, Thompson, Mayo and Rush. Whereas players like Hibbert and Augustine are going to have very solid careers. I would have also picked Hickson, but seeing how he'll be playing in Cleveland and will probably be buried on the bench behind wallace, Joe Smith, Z and Sideshow bob, he won't get much PT to make an impact.

Good analysis...let's see if it holds true.

I do have to disagree with the implication that Reggie "might not give" Thompson PT. The philosophy he worked on last year was that PT is earned, not given. And as we saw with Hawes last year, if a guy works his butt off in practice and takes advantage of opportunities he's given during games, he will be rewarded with a bigger role. Thompson will have to earn minutes the same way this next season. From what I've heard about his work ethic and drive, he will earn those minutes.

I agree with the earning minutes part, I am a big advocare for that as well BUT only on teams which are goign somwehere. Lets face it, Neither Thompson nor Hawes will be preferred ahead of Mikki Moore or Brad Miller if you by earning minutes logic. This means you're again going to be a mediocre enough team to miss the playoffs AND not getting a high draft pick. So logic suggests that you give these young guys good minutes to develop, let them play through their mistakes and ship Miller and Artest out. Otherwise, in a bid to make the rookies/sophs earn minutes, you're still stuck with Miller and Artest neither of whom are gonna take you anywhere, Especially Miller. So common sense suggests that you either go in a full rebuid mode or go all out to get major stars and rebuild overnight. Kings don't have the pieces to go for stars so might as well do a proper rebuild.

[pillwenney]

I agree with the earning minutes part, I am a big advocare for that as well BUT only on teams which are goign somwehere. Lets face it, Neither Thompson nor Hawes will be preferred ahead of Mikki Moore or Brad Miller if you by earning minutes logic. This means you're again going to be a mediocre enough team to miss the playoffs AND not getting a high draft pick. So logic suggests that you give these young guys good minutes to develop, let them play through their mistakes and ship Miller and Artest out. Otherwise, in a bid to make the rookies/sophs earn minutes, you're still stuck with Miller and Artest neither of whom are gonna take you anywhere, Especially Miller. So common sense suggests that you either go in a full rebuid mode or go all out to get major stars and rebuild overnight. Kings don't have the pieces to go for stars so might as well do a proper rebuild.

Mikki Moore is not that hard to earn minutes over. And even last year, there were times when, in a given game, Spencer was outplaying Brad and got minutes. I think that's great for him, and it pushes him--and that's the idea.

And I disagree with the notion that somebody should just get as many minutes as possible. There is only so much that a player can learn at once, so personally I don't think there is much value in giving them starters minutes as opposed to the minutes of a solid bench player.

[SacKingZZZ]

^ Good to here. Hopefully your right.

I'm one of the people that were fans of the pick, but I definitely was surprised. Thanks for the good words. Many of us haven't seen him play. All we have seen are scouting reports and youtube clips, but from what Petrie and Theus have said, they are in love with this kid. He was the ''unanimous" decision among those who decided on who the Kings were drafting. He sounds like a really good guy (after interviews I've heard with him) I'm always a fan of that. Hopefully you, Geoff, and Reggie will be right!

No problem, man. The ONLY problem I see in regards to Thompson or any of your young guys is that Reggie might not give them enough chances to get PT. I think if you guys really want to committ to building a strong core, you gotta ship Brad Miller and Artest out and start rebuilding around KMart-Hawes-Thompson. Lets face it, you guys aren't going anywhere especially cuz the contracts of SAR and Thomas are going to hold you back from making any meaningful deals for FA's or Star players. And you guys aren't making the playoffs with KMart-Artest-Thompson-Hawes-Miller anytime soon. So might as well trade Miller and Artest while they're still on contracts and get some assests/picks for them. And build your way through the draft and once SAR and KThomas becoming expirings or expire,then you make a couple of big signing to bring in some legit help.

Until then, give as much PT to Thompson and Hawes and let them develop during games. By the time the big 2010 Off season arrives, you guys would have stocked pile a lot more talent through the next 2 drafts (considering you will get high enough picks thanks to a bad record) and then you go in a full-fledge playoff push. Until then, its no use keeping guys like Artest and Miller on the roster while being out of the playoff picture every year and being a medicre enough team to not make the playoffs and not being bad enough to land a high draft pick.

And yeah, I am RARELY wrong about my draft projections and talent analysis Last year I was shaking my head when Al Thornton slipped all the way to 14 just cuz he was 23 years old. I told people 3 months before the draft that Thornton alongside Horford-Durant-Oden will have the best pro career out of the entire class. And now, Clippers seem to be building around him. I also said that in the long run, Horford would be a better player than Oden and Durant, and I am still sticking to it. The jury's still out on Oden and Durant hasn't really impressed me much.

Out of this year's class, I am ranking the following guys as sure shot studs : Rose, Beasely, Thompson, Mayo and Rush. Whereas players like Hibbert and Augustine are going to have very solid careers. I would have also picked Hickson, but seeing how he'll be playing in Cleveland and will probably be buried on the bench behind wallace, Joe Smith, Z and Sideshow bob, he won't get much PT to make an impact.

I have been asking for this kind of turn in direction for awhile myself. The only thing I can hope is that the numbers game comes into play when Petrie looks at the roster. We are DOMINATED from a roster standpoint by youth desperately needing the minutes on the floor to develop. There is no excuse now that we are this far along.

[SacKingZZZ]

Because of his age, John Salmons should be lumped in with the Artest/Miller talk - but, I see the collectivity is that he isn't... is it because John's not enough of veteran with his years in the league, or is it because, that indication of "wanting to win" isn't there as much from him?

But yeah, out of the two, Artest would probably be the one to go. I don't think Ron "has to go" at all, but one of Salmons/Ron will eventually need to go. So with the options and possibilities that are present extending from June 30th to next year, Ron probably will be the one who is gone.

Also, I think we are paying the price for not drafting a more polished PG instead of a combo/developmental type PG (Douby) in 2006.

I agree, and with what has happened with Bibby since that season, to our PG situation at this moment, is partly why I wanted us to draft Lowry (love him) or Rondo over Douby.

Saying that he basically thinks the team should play the players that give them the best chance to win isn't really "making a stink" and it certainly doesn't lower his value.

Agreed. Especially because if he would be traded, it'd be to a different situation. They look at him relating to their team, not relating to us.

Still there is a real possibility that he will be gone anyway, and quite soon in fact. It's 1 more year at the most more than likely. The worst thing this franchise could do is to re-sign Ron Artest to a long term deal. Been through it before, don't need to go through it again, but when you have the makings of a nice young team you don't sign a player nearing his 30's that will have ZERO value after signing his deal, that wants to win a championship above all else and you don't have the means to put him in that situation within his own time frame.

Sure wanting to win is great, but not when you have so many young players needing to focus on simply learning the NBA game. Ron wants to run, but we have a team full of youngsters that need to be given the chance to at least learn to crawl first. I want to see guys like Spencer, Jason, Quincy, Shelden, etc be given the chance to spread their wings and learn their limitations without the fear that they are going to blow some percieved gung-ho charge into the playoffs.

It's not even really about age. Ron is ready to get going. He's been here long enough and wants to win NOW. Not 2 years from now, not the year after that. On the flipside I think John will still be excited just by being given a chance to start full time. I think that alone could satisfy him for at least the next couple of seasons. For Ron that kind of stuff is old hat. He has been on a great team before, on a contender. He's in the middle of his prime and would be completely wasted on a rebuilding team. Is he old? Of course not, but he certainly doesn't mesh with the time frame the organization needs to set their sights on. That and commiting that kind of money right now to anyone at that age range, and more importantly someone with that much NBA experience is a major mistake. Plus the way the roster is shaping up he doesn't even remotely fit the style of play we seem to be heading towards.