2008 German Olympics Basketball Team

[gkonstantas]

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I don't agree. There is a more realistic approach to statistics here than in the US, where they are - in my opinion - extremely overrated. The large majority of these players play on bad or middle-class teams, but have huge problems on the top teams with highly demanding coaches. In Europe, the best players play on the best teams. So the Top-25 statistics don't really deceive anyone here. The players who play on the contenders are the interesting ones for teams who are willing to "buy" foreign talent. Like Holden for Russia.

But a lot of US players have huge problems playing in Europe, especially in the first 1-2 seasons.

I highly aggree with the overrated issue of stats in the US... Statistically wise, Ginobili wasn t in Europe half as good as he is now, Greek players like Diamantides are awkard... The approach to the game is different, no serious defence by NBA teams, and some players play only for the stats in USA. The thing that makes a basketball player great is things you see in his game without having to be dominant in numbers. I have seen Kobe be in an awful game throught statistically but he is the leader of his team and the best player in the court every single night... So does KG for Boston.so does even Papaloukas for CSKA(assists is the only stat he leads his team,but is so fun to watch him by the stands, believe me)

[jt142]

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I highly aggree with the overrated issue of stats in the US... Statistically wise, Ginobili wasn t in Europe half as good as he is now, Greek players like Diamantides are awkard... The approach to the game is different, no serious defence by NBA teams, and some players play only for the stats in USA. The thing that makes a basketball player great is things you see in his game without having to be dominant in numbers. I have seen Kobe be in an awful game throught statistically but he is the leader of his team and the best player in the court every single night... So does KG for Boston.so does even Papaloukas for CSKA(assists is the only stat he leads his team,but is so fun to watch him by the stands, believe me)

I hope you're not putting Papaloukas in the same category as KG or Kobe. He's getting increasingly overrated. If you want to call him the Euroleague's version of KG, fine. However, he wouldn't do much in the NBA. He's no Gasol or Nowitzki.

Just look at Spanoulis. He was a great Euroleague player, but sucked in the NBA.

I agree that players like Zach Randolph who score 20 ppg+ on bad NBA teams, inflate their stats. I think recently, however, NBA teams have become more critical of such players. I don't think teamwork is starting to take precedence over individual play, especially on good teams. Very few playoff teams rely on one superstar to win. Actually, I can only think of one team in the playoffs that does so (the Cavs with Lebron). The rest (Phoenix, SA, Detroit, Boston, Mavs, LA, Toronto, Orlando, Utah, etc) play as a team, and have good role-players. Actually, I haven't seen so much teamwork on display in an NBA season in a while.

The best teams in the NBA (LA, SA, Boston, Detroit, Utah, etc.) play very good defense, so I disagree with labeling NBA teams as weak on defense. I would expect the top Euroleague team to beat Miami, not because they have better talent, but because they are a better team. I would even put money on the University of Memphis over a Wade-less Miami squad.

If you throw the top European team in the NBA, they wouldn't make the playoffs and would have trouble beating our worst teams. It's like throwing the top MLS team in the Premier League. They might be able to hang around for a couple of games or maybe even a month, but in the end they'd be over-matched. Euroleague teams just don't have the athleticism or talent.

The big difference between the NBA and Europe is, only the best Euroleague players have the talent to play in the NBA. Euroleague scrub players don't have a shot. On the other hand, American scrub players (Morris, Langdan, Holden, and Greer, to name a few) go to Europe and become starters or even their respective team's best player. The Euroleague isn't at the same level as the NBA. Sorry, those preseason games in Europe don't mean crap. It's like when an MLS team beats Chelsea in a preseason game. It's nothing more than a preseason game.

If the NBA wants to become more competitive, they should shorten the season to 40 games and cut the number of teams back to 20 or less. This way, we'd be able to weed out the scrub teams and players and the games would mean a lot more.

[jt142]

Sorry for the delay guys...Nice approach to the topic. Here are my thoughts:

Since NT are professional,with pro players and pro approach and also with pro money in it, the likes of Kaman, Jake Tsakalidis, JR Smith, Hakeem, even Duncan (Virgin Islands????),

Half of France soccer NT players, US soccer NT players (cmon freddie adu???, Alexis Lalas???)

, players will 'trade' for teams for glory and money they wouldnt get with their heritage country.

Eh, Alexei Lalas, JR Smith, Kirk Hinrich were all born and raised in American. They are products of the American sports system. You really need to do some research before you make ridiculous statements. You don't make any sense.

Another key factor you left out is that Duncan and Hakeem learned to play basketball in America. They are products of the American basketball developmental system. Hence, they are representatives of USA basketball. Do you really think Hakeem learned to play bball in Africa and Duncan learned to play in the USVI? Nope. Hakem went to the Univ. of Houston and Duncan went to Wake Forest. Do you think they'd be the players they are if they stayed home?

Besides, any resident of the USVI is a US citizen.

The only example you gave that might be legitimate is Freddy Adu because he developed his skills at a young age in Ghana. However, he also spent a lot of time in the USA developmental system since the age of 11 or 12. He's lived in America for a while now and is developing his skills here. That's different than Kaman or Holden's situation.

The difference between Duncan playing for America and Holden or Kaman playing for Russia or Germany is huge. Holden and Kaman are products of the American system of basketball and are American citizens. In other words, they're American basketball players playing for an adopted country that had nothing to do with their development.

Actually, I'd say the same thing about Koulis. He's Greek by ancestry, but he learned to play basketball in America. Hence, he's a product of the American developmental system. He didn't learn to play ball in Greece and he wouldn't be the same player if he did. He represents the American developmental system. Greece is using America to develop their future top player. You can deny this as much as you want, but it's the truth. I don't think there's anything wrong with this. It's their right to do so.

[Versubio]

Besides, any resident of the USVI is a US citizen.

The Virgin Islands and Puerto Rico have the same situation. Its citizens are US citizens, but they have their own sports citizenship. So technically Carlos Arroyo could play for the USA, because he was born an American citizen, but plays for Puerto Rico. Carmelo Anthony was elegible to play for Puerto Rico because his father was born in Puerto Rico, but plays for team USA.
Raja Bell plays for the Virgin Islands and could have played for team USA, because he also is USA citizen.

[jt142]

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The Virgin Islands and Puerto Rico have the same situation. Its citizens are US citizens, but they have their own sports citizenship. So technically Carlos Arroyo could play for the USA, because he was born an American citizen, but plays for Puerto Rico. Carmelo Anthony was elegible to play for Puerto Rico because his father was born in Puerto Rico, but plays for team USA.
Raja Bell plays for the Virgin Islands and could have played for team USA, because he also is USA citizen.

You missed the main point of my post.

Anyways, Arroyo and Bell aren't good enough to play on the USA team. They aren't even starters on their respective NBA teams. They're not scrubs, but they're nothing special either.

As for Carmelo Anthony, he's born and raised in the states, unlike Arroyo or Bell. I could care less about the nationality of his parents because it doesn't matter. This is America; you're not a native unless you're Native American. The rest of our ancestors are from all over the world. That's what I love about this country. Carmelo's just as American as I am. His situation is different from Arroyo (born and raised in Puerto Rico) and Bell (born and raised in the USVI).

[gkonstantas]

I hope you're not putting Papaloukas in the same category as KG or Kobe. He's getting increasingly overrated. If you want to call him the Euroleague's version of KG, fine. However, he wouldn't do much in the NBA. He's no Gasol or Nowitzki.

Just look at Spanoulis. He was a great Euroleague player, but sucked in the NBA.

No way! I am just having an example of leadership, just because it happened to attend game Olympiakos-CSKA recently. As for Spanoulis...Great player but DIDN T want to continue in the NBA,i feel just sorry for him..The rest you say I TOTALLY agree., talent in Europe is much less than in the States in BBall.

Eh, Alexei Lalas, JR Smith, Kirk Hinrich were all born and raised in American. They are products of the American sports system. You really need to do some research before you make ridiculous statements. You don't make any sense.

Another key factor you left out is that Duncan and Hakeem learned to play basketball in America. They are products of the American basketball developmental system. Hence, they are representatives of USA basketball. Do you really think Hakeem learned to play bball in Africa and Duncan learned to play in the USVI? Nope. Hakem went to the Univ. of Houston and Duncan went to Wake Forest. Do you think they'd be the players they are if they stayed home?

I meant JR Holden...But wait a minute: What the hell does 'American sport system' or ' American basketball developmental system' mean?? With your point of you, all players of USA that play in the premier league should not play for USA... The thing is do these players feel anything about the country they re playin??? Koufos is playing in USA but he wants to play for Greece bcs he feels that way.It s OK by me, I just dont want to pay money for a player to represent my country. As long as he has some connection to my country and is not paid I am OK with that. You can deny though that the likes of Alexei Lalas and JR Holden, Kaman brings you laughter... Do you like trades of nations??? Me not. End of the story.

OT-please don't make it personal, with personal references and comments. It's just basketball, nobody is ridiculous because some thoughts on the game!

[Versubio]

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You missed the main point of my post.

Anyways, Arroyo and Bell aren't good enough to play on the USA team. They aren't even starters on their respective NBA teams. They're not scrubs, but they're nothing special either.

As for Carmelo Anthony, he's born and raised in the states, unlike Arroyo or Bell. I could care less about the nationality of his parents because it doesn't matter. This is America; you're not a native unless you're Native American. The rest of our ancestors are from all over the world. That's what I love about this country. Carmelo's just as American as I am. His situation is different from Arroyo (born and raised in Puerto Rico) and Bell (born and raised in the USVI).

I never said Arroyo and Bell would be on team USA. I said that technically they could be if USA basketball and of course they wanted it. As for Carmelo, FIBA rules say that you can play for a country if you were born there or if at least one of your parents was. Thus, Carmelo was born in the USA, so he plays for them. But he could have played for Puerto Rico because his father was born there.

[butabi]

Kaman just received his German passport!!
Toghether with Dirk, he will now build one of the strongest frontcourts in the qualifying tournament for the Olympics.

Source (German): http://www.basketball-bund.de/basketball-bund/de/news_und_aktuelles/1716.html

[Rasho Brezec]

Damn you, Caveman!

[Management]

That's great!

I think everybody knows it's all about sucess. And here with the Germany NT he has the chance to go to the Olympics, that's a dream for everyone.

IMO we should borrow some more players from the NBA to make it more interesting.

Some people reacted to his decision like Kaman cut their balls away. There is no rule that can punish players like him and patriotism is so much overrated...

It's like saying the NBA-pro's get more money can they deserve for running up and down the court.....you people won't change that with watching it even more

[Nuzzo]

I am sick of those players playing for another countries. 1/2 of FIBAEurope have at least 1 US born player available for them. Roderick Blakney, Keydrian Clark and Priest Lauderdale for Bulgaria, Henry Domercant and Terrel Caslte for Bosnia, Jeron Roberts, Chris Watson and Jamie Arnold for Israel. F**k it they are way too many to name them. I hope that FIBA will ban this nonsense.
I accept this only when a player is fully connected with this country(one US guy played for Israel, but he was married for israeli women and even served in the military), or his dad/mom is from this country.

PS: Its dumb to put Tim Duncan on pair with Kaman - Duncan was born in United States Virgin Islands (https://www.cia.gov/library/publication ... nt/vq.html)

[mapko81]

Why is JR Holden a product of the American system? No one offered him an opportunity to develop his basketball talents professionally in the States. He has become the player he is playing in Russia, honing his craft there. Maybe playing for Russia is just his way of giving back to the country?

Kaman's story is a little differently. Apparently his grandparents are German. Keep in mind that the guy is essentially playing for free and putting at risk his multi-million dollar career in the NBA. I doubt he is doing this for professional reasons.

[jt142]

Why is JR Holden a product of the American system? No one offered him an opportunity to develop his basketball talents professionally in the States. He has become the player he is playing in Russia, honing his craft there. Maybe playing for Russia is just his way of giving back to the country?

This is a ridiculous comment. Holden was born, raised, and spent over 22 + years developing his bball skills in America. He's an American bball player playing for Russia, plain and simple.

[jman3134]

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- I was allwas against the participation of Henry Domercant (before him it was Terrel Castle) in the BIH NT! I would rather lose to Division B Teams, than be European Championship with an naturalized player as the hero!

- Dickau´s grandparents were born in Poland, so It´s ok!

Dickau sucks in the NBA, but he might be decent in the FIBA system. He was a great college player, and the college game is closer to FIBA than the NBA.

As an American, I could care less if these players decide to play for another country. None of them are good enough to play for the USA team. If anything, I feel bad for the countries that they're playing for. It's sort of like saying you can't develop your own players, so you get them from America.

I agree. It is pretty ridiculous to see NBA players go to other national teams.....where is the loyalty to our country? If Kaman so desparately wants to play basketball all year round, the summer league affords him a nice opportunity. Such an acquisition is very good for Germany in International competition.

Anyway, I am not sure about the youth situation in Germany. I remember former UNC standout Okulaja performing well in national team competition. Now with Kaman and Jagla, they should have a nice frontcourt. Now, the focus should be at the guard slots imo. Is Demond Greene playing for Germany this year?

As for the future, is Tim Ohlbrecht an extremely overhyped prospect? I remember his name being thrown out in draft circles relatively recently, and now he seems to be off the radar.

[D-Wags#13]

Yes, Greene is still playing with the German team, just scored 18 yesterday against Slovenia in an exhibition game.
Okulaja won't play this summer due to a back injury. But honestly, I don't know if that weakens us. He was rather bad for Bamberg last year, being past his prime with lack of appreciation of his new role.
Regarding Tim Ohlbrecht, he really has made some impressive strides within the last few weeks. Started in German playoffs where he put up some double doubles and kept on with the national team. He has shown he can be an contributor for the team, being strong enough handling the post, blocking shots, grabbing rebounds, making hustle plays and showed very good developement with his awareness in the post as well as his post moves. I really do think he has a big future ahead of him. Keep in mind he still is just 19 years old.

[jt142]

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- I was allwas against the participation of Henry Domercant (before him it was Terrel Castle) in the BIH NT! I would rather lose to Division B Teams, than be European Championship with an naturalized player as the hero!

- Dickau´s grandparents were born in Poland, so It´s ok!

Dickau sucks in the NBA, but he might be decent in the FIBA system. He was a great college player, and the college game is closer to FIBA than the NBA.

As an American, I could care less if these players decide to play for another country. None of them are good enough to play for the USA team. If anything, I feel bad for the countries that they're playing for. It's sort of like saying you can't develop your own players, so you get them from America.

I agree. It is pretty ridiculous to see NBA players go to other national teams.....where is the loyalty to our country? If Kaman so desparately wants to play basketball all year round, the summer league affords him a nice opportunity. Such an acquisition is very good for Germany in International competition.

Anyway, I am not sure about the youth situation in Germany. I remember former UNC standout Okulaja performing well in national team competition. Now with Kaman and Jagla, they should have a nice frontcourt. Now, the focus should be at the guard slots imo. Is Demond Greene playing for Germany this year?

As for the future, is Tim Ohlbrecht an extremely overhyped prospect? I remember his name being thrown out in draft circles relatively recently, and now he seems to be off the radar.

Germany will be a better team with Kaman, no doubt about it. Still, I see this as just another example of an American player being bought by a European country. Kaman doesn't speak German and the only connection he has to the country is through his ancestors. The fact is, he was born in America and learned how to play basketball there. In other words, like Holden, he's a product of the American bball system. Since the USA team has better center prospects, it doesn't bother me at all that he's playing for Germany. I'm confident that Howard, Bosh, and even Boozer can all dominate Kaman, just as they did during the reguar season. If anything, Kaman will make the biggest difference on the defensive end against teams like Spain and Greece. As always, Germany's offense will run through Nowitzki, but, unlike past years, opposing teams will have more trouble double and triple teaming Dirk with Kaman in the game. Kaman definitely makes Germany a more formidable team and probably gives them the best frontcourt in Europe. If Greene continues to play well, then Germany should qualify for the Olympics.

As for Ohlbrecht, I think he's highly overrated. I expected more from him at this year's Hoops Summit, but he looked lost out on the court and didn't possess the skill set that scouts were raving about in the past. Since he's 7 ' tall and only 19, he still has some upside has time to develop. However, he's nowhere near the player that Dirk was at the same age and never will be. He plays more like Yi Jianlian than Nowitzki.

[wilt]

Kaman's story is a little differently. Apparently his grandparents are German. Keep in mind that the guy is essentially playing for free and putting at risk his multi-million dollar career in the NBA. I doubt he is doing this for professional reasons.

Well, quite honeytly Kaman does a lot of crazy things anyway that have **** to do with his career, so that is pretty safe to assume
I mean, the guy relaxes by shooting arrows in freaking Los Angeles and in past offseasons did a 100 hour roadtrip (one way ...) in a motorhome to go fishing in Alaska, drove his ass 31 hours to mexico to give basketball lessons and this summer spent 1 1/2 months going and staying in mexico in a boat.

The guy´s just a unique person.


For Ohlbrecht : Was extremely overrated, than went against the wall that is "young german players don´t play in german first league" and now is actually underrated. I still think he has NBA talent, just hasn´t had the type of competitive experience other prospect had so far to stay in the "public eye".

[Chuck Diesel]

Interesting twist to this debate-

It looks like Al Horford is going to spurn the Dominican Republic national team and join Team USA this summer (per Draftexpress.com). Horford is a product of the American system and lived most of his life in the US, but he is Dominican by culture and heritage. He's talked about wanting to play for the DR in the past along with Charlie Villanueva and Trevor Ariza, so it's kind of surprising that he will be suiting up for the stars and stripes all of a sudden.

[Ern III]

You're so close-minded that you're all missing the point. The world needs to unite - basketball players and footballers alike - and concentrate on finding an inter-stellar or perhaps even an inter-galactic opponent to pound. Who gives a toss as to what set of geographical co-ordinates one represents?

[Walt Cronkite]

SPACE JAM 2!!