Boone's numbers

Post #21 » by **jerseyjac** » Wed Jul 30, 2008 9:23 pm

Josh's low post moves are limited...though he can surprise you at times...most of his points come from slips or dumps in the paint created by ball penetration...then of course you have Josh's above avg. off. rebounding where he obviously gives us points in the paint...I do believe he's an above avg defender, only really having difficulty with the star 4s and 5s...but as many have stated he is still young...

Last year you saw Boone improve with his overall aggression which really helped with his offense...this kid has to dunk the ball every chance he gets...at the same time, I think you saw how Boone is actually quicker around the basket than maybe we actually thought...

With that said, I hope he has gotten stronger during the offseason and has improved his dreaded ft shooting...If Boone shot a better clip (he dropped about 9% at the free throw line w/ an added 14min/gm from 06-07 to 07-08...)...I would have no problem throwing 30min at him...But now with Lopez in the picture a true 7ft center 270lbs and legit moves around the basket, I see them splitting time at Center with Boone still averaging close to a double-double (similar to last yr) if stays around 25min a game...as I've stated before, Lopez needs PT right away...and ultimately he may have the upper hand in winning out minutes at Center...but Lopez has a lot more to prove and everyone is going to have wait and see if his game can be transitioned to the NBA as a starting ROOKIE center...

Boone has to stay confident, play his game and do the small things he does best...(pick and roll, boxing out, help defense, ect..) at this point, minor reports out, Boone will start at Center with Yi (marketing blue chip) at the 4...despite Frank saying Devin and Vince are the only the two positions penciled in for the start of 08-09...Boone deserves to start, should start and should receive the bigger minutes as Lopez adjusts to the NBA...

IMO, barring a super camp by Lopez, any other predictions other than Boone starting at this point are pretty bold, as is the exagerrating the rookie potential of Brook...

best case scenario...Boone's position is threatened...you have to like Lopez's chances of at least splitting minutes at Center somewhere down the line of this season and possibly taking over the starting role...but thats TBD...

rag-time4 · Post #22 » by **rag-time4** » Thu Jul 31, 2008 7:26 pm

Preludepunk27 wrote:^^^^ We've never been a shot blocking team and we've usually had a pretty solid defense if you don't count this past season. Hell Jason Collins was our starting center for like 7 years. Isn't his career blocks per game like .4 lol? People automatically equate blocked shots with good defense which is an ignorant assumption.

I can agree his help defense isn't the greatest but you're talking about a 23 year old big man who has never had an offseason to actually "work out." You're forgetting the learning curve big men have in the NBA, especially on the defensive end.

Thanks for lumping me into a generalization! Ever hear of Bill Russell?

When the Nets were going to the finals, they had a guy named Kenyon Martin. They also had Todd McCullough (1.4 blocks in 24 mins) for their first finals trip and Dikembe Mutombo (1.5 blocks in 21 mins) for their second finals trip. The next season with Kenyon Martin, they took the eventual NBA champion Pistons to 7 games.

After losing the athletic Kenyon Martin, the Nets have not been a serious contender.

I would agree that having one shotblocker on a team doesn't automatically make that team good defensively, but shotblocking does help your defense.

Preludepunk27 · Post #23 » by **Preludepunk27** » Thu Jul 31, 2008 10:19 pm

rag-time4 wrote:
Preludepunk27 wrote:^^^^ We've never been a shot blocking team and we've usually had a pretty solid defense if you don't count this past season. Hell Jason Collins was our starting center for like 7 years. Isn't his career blocks per game like .4 lol? People automatically equate blocked shots with good defense which is an ignorant assumption.

I can agree his help defense isn't the greatest but you're talking about a 23 year old big man who has never had an offseason to actually "work out." You're forgetting the learning curve big men have in the NBA, especially on the defensive end.

Thanks for lumping me into a generalization! Ever hear of Bill Russell?

When the Nets were going to the finals, they had a guy named Kenyon Martin. They also had Todd McCullough (1.4 blocks in 24 mins) for their first finals trip and Dikembe Mutombo (1.5 blocks in 21 mins) for their second finals trip. The next season with Kenyon Martin, they took the eventual NBA champion Pistons to 7 games.

After losing the athletic Kenyon Martin, the Nets have not been a serious contender.

I would agree that having one shotblocker on a team doesn't automatically make that team good defensively, but shotblocking does help your defense.

Wow everyone in the world knows Bill Russell did more than block shots. He holds no baring in this conversation for that reason. Did Gheorghe Muresan block a lot of shots too? Hell yeah! Was he a good defender? Hell no! That is my argument. Bill Russell belongs 10,000 miles from this conversation. I was just saying that just because you block a lot of shots does not AUTOMATICALLY assume you are a good defender which is what you were saying in a nutshell.

And again in the same years who else were our big men? Jason Collins...Rodney Rogers...Aaron Williams. All solid hardworking defenders. All couldn't block shots. I'm just trying to explain to you that just because your starting center does not block 1 shot a guy doesn't mean he's a weak defender that kills the rest of the defense. There is a small correlation between the two that people overrate immensely.

MrDollarBills · Post #24 » by **MrDollarBills** » Fri Aug 1, 2008 7:11 pm

Figuring out how well a big man can defend based on shot blocking statistics is hilarious...that's like me making an argument for Allen Iverson being a great defender because he's always in the top 5 in steals every season.

Boone is the man....yall stop this nonsense.

S.I.C. GM · Post #25 » by **S.I.C. GM** » Fri Aug 1, 2008 9:03 pm

Million

I see your boy boone losing his starting role early, buddy. He might be there in the beginning, but IMO Lopez will out work him for the spot. Lopez has shown he can score in the post, rebound and block. Once he gets some PT in the regular season, boone is back on the bench. Boone is just limited ala David Lee. No jump shot. Cant hit a FT. Gets into foul trouble.

Sorry Bills.

rag-time4 · Post #26 » by **rag-time4** » Sat Aug 2, 2008 8:26 am

Preludepunk27 wrote:
rag-time4 wrote:
Preludepunk27 wrote:Wow everyone in the world knows Bill Russell did more than block shots. He holds no baring in this conversation for that reason. Did Gheorghe Muresan block a lot of shots too? Hell yeah! Was he a good defender? Hell no! That is my argument. Bill Russell belongs 10,000 miles from this conversation. I was just saying that just because you block a lot of shots does not AUTOMATICALLY assume you are a good defender which is what you were saying in a nutshell.

And again in the same years who else were our big men? Jason Collins...Rodney Rogers...Aaron Williams. All solid hardworking defenders. All couldn't block shots. I'm just trying to explain to you that just because your starting center does not block 1 shot a guy doesn't mean he's a weak defender that kills the rest of the defense. There is a small correlation between the two that people overrate immensely.

Which people overrate shotblocking immensely?

The consensus appears to be the opposite, which is your position, that shot blocking is an insignificant part of good defense.

Shot-blocking was the single most important thing that Russell did... and unlike Mureshan, or Theo Ratliff, Russell had great quickness, which allowed him to be an effective force against players of all sizes, just like Stromile Swift and Sean Williams. Swift and Williams are the best on the roster at stopping those small guards when they penetrate... many times the guard will get blocked or he'll pass the ball to someone else because of the presence of Swift or Williams.

Far too often Boone's defense is too soft against penetrating guards because of his lack of quickness and explosion.

What "people" overrate isn't shot blocking, it's individual rebounding. When "people" mention stats, blocks is an afterthought... it's always points, rebounds, and assists.

Much more important than individual rebound statistics are team rebound statistics, and points in the paint for and against.

It's true that devensive rebounds = defensive stops, but the player who gathers the defensive rebound is most certainly not always the player who had the most impact in producing the defensive stop (uncontested defensive boards, stat padding)

The one stat that Boone is best at, individual rebounding, is the least important, particularly because Boone lacks the defensive tools to produce stops himself.

Post #27 » by **jerseyjac** » Tue Aug 5, 2008 11:42 am

rag-time4 wrote:
Which people overrate shotblocking immensely?

The consensus appears to be the opposite, which is your position, that shot blocking is an insignificant part of good defense.

Shot-blocking was the single most important thing that Russell did... and unlike Mureshan, or Theo Ratliff, Russell had great quickness, which allowed him to be an effective force against players of all sizes, just like Stromile Swift and Sean Williams. Swift and Williams are the best on the roster at stopping those small guards when they penetrate... many times the guard will get blocked or he'll pass the ball to someone else because of the presence of Swift or Williams.

Far too often Boone's defense is too soft against penetrating guards because of his lack of quickness and explosion.

What "people" overrate isn't shot blocking, it's individual rebounding. When "people" mention stats, blocks is an afterthought... it's always points, rebounds, and assists.

Much more important than individual rebound statistics are team rebound statistics, and points in the paint for and against.

It's true that devensive rebounds = defensive stops, but the player who gathers the defensive rebound is most certainly not always the player who had the most impact in producing the defensive stop (uncontested defensive boards, stat padding)

The one stat that Boone is best at, individual rebounding, is the least important, particularly because Boone lacks the defensive tools to produce stops himself.

Post #28 » by **jerseyjac** » Tue Aug 5, 2008 11:49 am

S.I.C. GM wrote:Million

I see your boy boone losing his starting role early, buddy. He might be there in the beginning, but IMO Lopez will out work him for the spot. Lopez has shown he can score in the post, rebound and block. Once he gets some PT in the regular season, boone is back on the bench. Boone is just limited ala David Lee. No jump shot. Cant hit a FT. Gets into foul trouble.

Sorry Bills.

million is a fan of Boone, but I think he knows his place on the food chain (as far as Boone is concerned)

However, SIC, you seem pretty giddy about Lopez...I was fine w/ our pick as well as the talk about him challenging for center this year...but lets see him play couple of NBA games first...fans are gettin ahead of themselves with our #10 pick...

(and your using David Lee as a comparison w/ Boone...???)

S.I.C. GM · Post #29 » by **S.I.C. GM** » Tue Aug 5, 2008 1:28 pm

jerseyjac wrote:
S.I.C. GM wrote:Million

I see your boy boone losing his starting role early, buddy. He might be there in the beginning, but IMO Lopez will out work him for the spot. Lopez has shown he can score in the post, rebound and block. Once he gets some PT in the regular season, boone is back on the bench. Boone is just limited ala David Lee. No jump shot. Cant hit a FT. Gets into foul trouble.

Sorry Bills.

million is a fan of Boone, but I think he knows his place on the food chain (as far as Boone is concerned)

However, SIC, you seem pretty giddy about Lopez...I was fine w/ our pick as well as the talk about him challenging for center this year...but lets see him play couple of NBA games first...fans are gettin ahead of themselves with our #10 pick...

(and your using David Lee as a comparison w/ Boone...???)

jac, I might take him a few games, but he will take over the center position. Our biggest problem was low post scoring. He is the only bonafide low post option on the team will be given the opportunity. Yi will get his low post opportunities. SWill wont get jack. Boone has no low post game. Please Krstic got burn in his rookie year. Lopez will get more then Krstic did unless he gets hurt.

jeff1624 · Post #30 » by **jeff1624** » Tue Aug 5, 2008 1:59 pm

S.I.C. GM wrote:
jerseyjac wrote:
S.I.C. GM wrote:Million

I see your boy boone losing his starting role early, buddy. He might be there in the beginning, but IMO Lopez will out work him for the spot. Lopez has shown he can score in the post, rebound and block. Once he gets some PT in the regular season, boone is back on the bench. Boone is just limited ala David Lee. No jump shot. Cant hit a FT. Gets into foul trouble.

Sorry Bills.

million is a fan of Boone, but I think he knows his place on the food chain (as far as Boone is concerned)

However, SIC, you seem pretty giddy about Lopez...I was fine w/ our pick as well as the talk about him challenging for center this year...but lets see him play couple of NBA games first...fans are gettin ahead of themselves with our #10 pick...

(and your using David Lee as a comparison w/ Boone...???)

jac, I might take him a few games, but he will take over the center position. Our biggest problem was low post scoring. He is the only bonafide low post option on the team will be given the opportunity. Yi will get his low post opportunities. SWill wont get jack. Boone has no low post game. Please Krstic got burn in his rookie year. Lopez will get more then Krstic did unless he gets hurt.

Not the first 2 months he didn't. He only got playing time when we traded away Zo, A-train and eric williams. Had we not traded for vince i'm pretty sure krstic would have seen as much time as mile ilic did his only year here. Hell, frank even prefered to play eric williams at 4 before giving krstic playing time.

S.I.C. GM · Post #31 » by **S.I.C. GM** » Tue Aug 5, 2008 4:13 pm

Actually Jeff,

By the end of Nov he was getting double digit PT. Though he got more when Mourning left, He wasnt riding the bench for 2 months. Yeah it wasnt 20+ minutes, but he did get some burn.

MrDollarBills · Post #32 » by **MrDollarBills** » Tue Aug 5, 2008 5:53 pm

SIC,

Man...I PRAY Brook is ready enough to knock Boone out of the starting line up. We need him to learn fast and have a solid rookie season. I just don't bank on that happening because I haven't seen him be successful against NBA caliber competition, whereas with Boone I know we're at least going to get rebounding, defense, and finishing around the rim.

Til then, we shouldn't be so quick to throw Josh under the bus. This team needs Boone to continue to play hard, just as much as we do Lopez.

Post #33 » by **jerseyjac** » Sun Aug 10, 2008 10:23 pm

S.I.C. GM wrote:
jerseyjac wrote:
S.I.C. GM wrote:Million

I see your boy boone losing his starting role early, buddy. He might be there in the beginning, but IMO Lopez will out work him for the spot. Lopez has shown he can score in the post, rebound and block. Once he gets some PT in the regular season, boone is back on the bench. Boone is just limited ala David Lee. No jump shot. Cant hit a FT. Gets into foul trouble.

Sorry Bills.

million is a fan of Boone, but I think he knows his place on the food chain (as far as Boone is concerned)

However, SIC, you seem pretty giddy about Lopez...I was fine w/ our pick as well as the talk about him challenging for center this year...but lets see him play couple of NBA games first...fans are gettin ahead of themselves with our #10 pick...

(and your using David Lee as a comparison w/ Boone...???)

jac, I might take him a few games, but he will take over the center position. Our biggest problem was low post scoring. He is the only bonafide low post option on the team will be given the opportunity. Yi will get his low post opportunities. SWill wont get jack. Boone has no low post game. Please Krstic got burn in his rookie year. Lopez will get more then Krstic did unless he gets hurt.

I definitely believe Lopez will get my more time than Krstic his rookie yr...but calling him a BONAFIDE low post option...I cannot...again this team needs Boone, but hopefully Lopez can pick up the slack on the offensive side...
(hey, SIC I hope your right...but I'll believe it when I see it...and my fingers are crossed..)

MrDollarBills · Post #34 » by **MrDollarBills** » Mon Aug 11, 2008 8:03 pm

After the way Yi stunk up the gym last night we might be looking at a Lopez/Boone frontcourt combo starting. Yi doesnt look fit to start over either Josh, Sean, OR Brook and thats SAD.

I'll give him 20 games before i tear him, Thorn, and Ratner apart on here. If this dude is as soft and as garbage as what i saw yesterday, then we've been totally fleeced and this trade was done only to cut expenses and b)to use Yi to stop the team's financial bleeding. We'll see.

Mr. Dollar Bills' official Yi Countdown to BUST thread, coming soon!!

Post #35 » by **Rich Rane** » Mon Aug 11, 2008 8:52 pm

MrDollarBills wrote:After the way Yi stunk up the gym last night we might be looking at a Lopez/Boone frontcourt combo starting. Yi doesnt look fit to start over either Josh, Sean, OR Brook and thats SAD.

He's a 20-year-old who just finished his first NBA year. I don't see how that's sad. Sean Williams is 21 and had bad summer league games against inferior competition. Is that sad?

I'll give him 20 games before i tear him, Thorn, and Ratner apart on here. If this dude is as soft and as garbage as what i saw yesterday, then we've been totally fleeced and this trade was done only to cut expenses and b)to use Yi to stop the team's financial bleeding. We'll see.

Again, RJ needed to go. When you make a trade based on potential, you NEVER give the guy with potential only 20 games to base the rest of his career on.

Mr. Dollar Bills' official Yi Countdown to BUST thread, coming soon!!

Which would be followed with an immediate lock. Don't even try it.

Preludepunk27 · Post #36 » by **Preludepunk27** » Mon Aug 11, 2008 10:14 pm

MrDollarBills wrote:After the way Yi stunk up the gym last night we might be looking at a Lopez/Boone frontcourt combo starting. Yi doesnt look fit to start over either Josh, Sean, OR Brook and thats SAD.

I'll give him 20 games before i tear him, Thorn, and Ratner apart on here. If this dude is as soft and as garbage as what i saw yesterday, then we've been totally fleeced and this trade was done only to cut expenses and b)to use Yi to stop the team's financial bleeding. We'll see.

Mr. Dollar Bills' official Yi Countdown to BUST thread, coming soon!!

Honestly, I don't care about how he does in the Olympics. Watch he drops 15-20 points against some team in the next couple days and you guys will then trash him for not being able to do that against 12 of the best players in the NBA. If Sean or Brook were playing against the USA Olympic team, they would have done 20 times worse I'm positive. Boone is the only one I think wouldn't have looked like a fool out there. Sean couldn't do anything about SUMMER LEAGUE GUYS. What makes you think he could do better against 12 of the best players in the NBA?

jeff1624 · Post #37 » by **jeff1624** » Tue Aug 12, 2008 2:03 am

It's not fair to judge Yi when he faces a team full of superstars/all stars... I'll judge him after he plays his first 20 games as a Net.

ecuhus1981 · Post #38 » by **ecuhus1981** » Tue Aug 12, 2008 3:42 pm

jeff1624 wrote:It's not fair to judge Yi when he faces a team full of superstars/all stars... I'll judge him after he plays his first 20 games as a Net.

My sentiments exactly.

Also, you have to understand where he's coming from. I'm sure everyone on the team is looking for Yi to break out and be the 2nd (or at least 3rd) scoring option on the team, as no one else on the Chinese side matches up with international-level talent/athleticism the way he does.

But think about it: if you were the youngest starter on an Olympic team, wouldn't you be a little hesitant to assert yourself? In an authoritarian nation like China, where any me-first action by athletes (on or off the field of play) receives swift and direct government reproach, wouldn't those feelings be amplified?

I'm interested to see Yi play in these Olympics, and I feel he will show glimpses of how good he is. He has a pretty solid international resume in the u21 ranks, besting Vazquez, Splitter and others. Give him time to feel out his role in NJ, and I believe he will be a major part of this franchise.

S.I.C. GM · Post #39 » by **S.I.C. GM** » Tue Aug 12, 2008 5:03 pm

jerseyjac wrote:I definitely believe Lopez will get my more time than Krstic his rookie yr...but calling him a BONAFIDE low post option...I cannot...again this team needs Boone, but hopefully Lopez can pick up the slack on the offensive side...
(hey, SIC I hope your right...but I'll believe it when I see it...and my fingers are crossed..)

Jac, he was draft for is offense. The Defense and rebounding was his brother. He has all the low post skills with a nice Mid range jumper. So that is why I am saying he is our only bonafide low post option. Boone has no low post moves. All he has is the put back and pick and roll. SWiLL has some but Frank wont give him the PT to develop them. Krsitc gone. Yi has some low post game but not as good as Lopez. So Lopez is the only one. Like Krstic was in his rookie year, this is the reason why Lopez will get his minutes.

Boone will play. If he works as hard as he did last year, he will get PT. I am just not sold on Boone as an Offensively or as a Defensive stopper. Boone works with the Pick and roll. That is it. He does Rebound too. Defensively he is better than ok. Blocking is questionable.

Post #40 » by **jerseyjac** » Tue Aug 12, 2008 5:43 pm

MrDollarBills wrote:After the way Yi stunk up the gym last night we might be looking at a Lopez/Boone frontcourt combo starting. Yi doesnt look fit to start over either Josh, Sean, OR Brook and thats SAD.

I'll give him 20 games before i tear him, Thorn, and Ratner apart on here. If this dude is as soft and as garbage as what i saw yesterday, then we've been totally fleeced and this trade was done only to cut expenses and b)to use Yi to stop the team's financial bleeding. We'll see.

Mr. Dollar Bills' official Yi Countdown to BUST thread, coming soon!!

\

I definitely understand where your coming from...but lets not get ahead of ourselves... :wavefinger: