Official Spanish federation announcement

[Elshot]

Is this racist? This is part of the Sint Nikolaas en Zwarte Piet celebration in the Netherlands. It's a nationwide celebration where Dutch people paint their faces black, put red lipstick on their lips (mimicking thick lips), start talking with an accent and act dumber than their white master Sint Nikolaas. There has been some small controversy over this in recent years, but the majority of the hundreds of thousand of blacks in the Netherlands don't protest it and often participate in it.

Being from a non-Dutch ethnic background in what was previously an ethnically homogeneous Dutch society, I do not particapate in this celebration and simply do not like it, but who am I to force my interpretation on others when the potential victims themselves don't see this as an expression of racism?

This would be totally unacceptable in the USA. African-Americans would be horrified. Just pointing out that CONTEXT and INTERPRETATION are very important in these issues. People should stop being self-righteous in their high-flying claims about racism and perhaps spend some more time on fighting real hate.

By the way, every year when Sint Nikolaas and the "Black Petes " come with their steam boat in the ports of Dutch cities, it is said that they come from Spain. (That's actually not a joke)

[Don Draper]

DUDEEEE I think your mad at everyone, I think at times the way you post, your probably mad at yourself right now for your this post.................

I'm not sure how my post gave an indication that I was mad, but it is expected from you since you are the biggest troll on this board.

Keep up the good work.

[TonyMontana]

Well I know many asians and they are offended. They would be offended if a person ( no matter where they are) made this gesture to them. That is where I am coming from.

You on the other hand are saying they are not offended -- based on the china-state-owned media has not shown it to them.

Who is grabbing for straws?

I guess that your friends have been alienated by the RACIST US culture.

Follow me:
Slanted eyes is a racist gesture in US. By definition, this means, than in US, people without slanted eyes are superior to the people who have slanted eyes. So everytime an Asian-Americans feel offended by that, he's implying that by having slanted-eyes they're inferior to the US people.

That's your culture, intoxicating chinese people who come to USA, so that they think that this is racist->they're inferior.

In Spain, they're not inferior by having slanted eyes. Neither does it on China. The only one's offended has been the Asian-Americans. That's the US culture, the kids mocking them on the school, the movies and tv series mocking them, making them feel inferior and ashamed of his eyes.

WOW Bella....... Call me crazy but YOU HAVE THIS DEEP HATERED TOWARDS US AMERCIANS dont you.
What is your real name???? Come on Bella please tell me, or pm me our homeland security would love to meet you for a one week free paid vacation to the US....

[PHANTOMPHOENIX]

You are lost.

no, I dont think so...

The point of the pic is that they are going to China so they will be Chinese which is the custom with NT and in general in Spain when they go abroad. Where in the pic is there a Chinese individual that they are approaching. Must be invisible.

I understand and have said over and over I get the spainards side in this. I have said it was not done to offend the asians.

Do you get that part? Hopefully so , so we can move on from that.

Just like when in the carnival in Spain they dress up like Egyptians, Japanese etc. There must be some Egyptian they are looking for to do it in front of.

again, no thats not the point. I said these types of displays happen all over the world and I am fine with it, encourage it and think its cool.

Spaniards do not see anything wrong with mimicking physical features because they don't see anything wrong with those features if they did they wouldn't be mimicking them.

Ok, thats fine. When you and or someone made the KKK ref. to the attire in your country-- you were trying to make a point that its ok in the spain to wear those clothes ( as it should be) .. so based on that non-racial act .... its ALSO ok to mimic other cultures.. thats fine too.

I dont condsider your explanation about wearing other cultures clothes on par with walking up to an asian on the street and making such a gesture. I am trying to find out from you.. if this is in fact something that is done in spain.

I am not lashing out at you.. I am asking you. You are the one that is lashing back.

THe comparison hits a snag when I ask you the question:

So you and or spainards walk up to asians on the street and give them the slant eye gesture?

My guess is no, but I dont know.. that is why I asked. I was hoping you would say.. either yes or no.

Your question is irrelevant because these pics and mimicking is not done at random on the streets of Spain. Again, you are taking things out of context.

It is Spanish custom to dress up as other cultures and mimick when they go abroad. It would not be acceptable to do at random on the street because it would be considered mocking.

It is only considered acceptable in this context because they are going to China and want to be Chinese...which is Spanish custom when these teams get sent abroad. Being Chinese is seen as a good thing in this context.

[M.Balla]

@elshot

Maybe this has something to do with Santa Klaus. In Spain we didn't celebrate Saint Klaus until twenty years more or less. Instead we did celebrate the "Three Magic Kings", http://es.wikipedia.org/wiki/Reyes_Magos .

Long story short. That's a Christian tradition, because three kings offered their presents to Jesus child when he was born. One of the three Kings it's black, and he's called Baltasar. That's on the Bible, who Spanish people didn't write, just in case someone gets mad.

Just as like in your countries, people on malls get dressed as Santa Klaus, in Spain, we disguised three person as the Three Magic Kings. If nobody was black, it's common to paint someone's face so he act like he's the black magician and give presents to the children.

Maybe, that's where it's come from.

So once again, if you find three people dressed as ancient magicians, and one of them has his face painted black, you dont have to worry about Spanish having a Minstrel Show. Damn! You're learning a lot of things for free! I should charge you, since in your private schools you didnt learn that on Geography.

[LLcoleJ]

Well I know many asians and they are offended. They would be offended if a person ( no matter where they are) made this gesture to them. That is where I am coming from.

You on the other hand are saying they are not offended -- based on the china-state-owned media has not shown it to them.

Who is grabbing for straws?

I guess that your friends have been alienated by the RACIST US culture.

Follow me:
Slanted eyes is a racist gesture in US. By definition, this means, than in US, people without slanted eyes are superior to the people who have slanted eyes. So everytime an Asian-Americans feel offended by that, he's implying that by having slanted-eyes they're inferior to the US people.

That's your culture, intoxicating chinese people who come to USA, so that they think that this is racist->they're inferior.

In Spain, they're not inferior by having slanted eyes. Neither does it on China. The only one's offended has been the Asian-Americans. That's the US culture, the kids mocking them on the school, the movies and tv series mocking them, making them feel inferior and ashamed of his eyes.

Racisim is all around the world -- not just in the US.

When you mock anothers apperance by definition is racist. There is a difference between mocking and mimicing to show respect.

I have said over and over that I understand where the Spaniards are coming from as far as their level on this matter and I have not onced lashed out at Spain.

I have only asked that people see where others come from. I see where Spain comes from in this and I see where Asians come from in this.

USA does not speak for the entire world and Spain does not either.

Its a bit much for you to isolate this to only US when you havent taken the pulse of asians across the world.

I am usising my expereince with my asians friends as a benchmark. These asian friends are very much true to their cutlure, food, language, history and are very much proud and still live as asian americans.

Not every Asian that is in the US -- gets some american pass on how things should be viewed I credit them for staying true to their culture.

This is my basis.

Its ok for the Spainards to have their own cultures too.. and i have said this and understand that. I am not picking sides. I just hope that we can all recognize peoples points of view.

[TonyMontana]

DUDEEEE I think your mad at everyone, I think at times the way you post, your probably mad at yourself right now for your this post.................

I'm not sure how my post gave an indication that I was mad, but it is expected from you since you are the biggest troll on this board.

Keep up the good work.

I bet you when you wake up in the morning and look in the mirror your angry at yourself, Ha?

By the way a TROLL ............. come on now obinna why cant we just get along.
Im only trying to help to cheer you up brahhh, stop being so angry at the world, look at our fellow Euro brothers, the make facial expression all the time and its all in fun.
Maybe you should make a facial expression right now, like your constipated and all your anger will be gone................ LET IT GO.

[PHANTOMPHOENIX]

Well I know many asians and they are offended. They would be offended if a person ( no matter where they are) made this gesture to them. That is where I am coming from.

You on the other hand are saying they are not offended -- based on the china-state-owned media has not shown it to them.

Who is grabbing for straws?

I guess that your friends have been alienated by the RACIST US culture.

Follow me:
Slanted eyes is a racist gesture in US. By definition, this means, than in US, people without slanted eyes are superior to the people who have slanted eyes. So everytime an Asian-Americans feel offended by that, he's implying that by having slanted-eyes they're inferior to the US people.

That's your culture, intoxicating chinese people who come to USA, so that they think that this is racist->they're inferior.

In Spain, they're not inferior by having slanted eyes. Neither does it on China. The only one's offended has been the Asian-Americans. That's the US culture, the kids mocking them on the school, the movies and tv series mocking them, making them feel inferior and ashamed of his eyes.

WOW Bella....... Call me crazy but YOU HAVE THIS DEEP HATERED TOWARDS US AMERCIANS dont you.
What is your real name???? Come on Bella please tell me, or pm me our homeland security would love to meet you for a one week free paid vacation to the US....

I don't know if you guys know this but Americans aren't really liked anywhere. They are seen as hypocrites. Claiming to be bringing democracy around the world when in fact they are just looking out for their own interests.

That is why when they make claims of moral superiority and pick at problems around the world..the rest the world just gives them this look....

That is why having Americans ask for apology is not seen in a good light and just having them poke their noses where it doesn't belong.

[Rasho Brezec]

Is this racist? This is part of the Sint Nikolaas en Zwarte Piet celebration in the Netherlands. It's a nationwide celebration where Dutch people paint their faces black, put red lipstick on their lips (mimicking thick lips), start talking with an accent and act dumber than their white master Sint Nikolaas. There has been some small controversy over this in recent years, but the majority of the hundreds of thousand of blacks in the Netherlands don't protest it and often participate in it.

Being from a non-Dutch ethnic background in what was previously an ethnically homogeneous Dutch society, I do not particapate in this celebration and simply do not like it, but who am I to force my interpretation on others when the potential victims themselves don't see this as an expression of racism?

This would be totally unacceptable in the USA. African-Americans would be horrified. Just pointing out that CONTEXT and INTERPRETATION are very important in these issues. People should stop being self-righteous in their high-flying claims about racism and perhaps spend some more time on fighting real hate.

By the way, every year when Sint Nikolaas and the "Black Petes " come with their steam boat in the ports of Dutch cities, it is said that they come from Spain. (That's actually not a joke)

Excellent post. Dutch are one of the most advanced and open-minded nations in the world and more nations should look up to them.

[Tomato]

You are lost.

no, I dont think so...

The point of the pic is that they are going to China so they will be Chinese which is the custom with NT and in general in Spain when they go abroad. Where in the pic is there a Chinese individual that they are approaching. Must be invisible.

I understand and have said over and over I get the spainards side in this. I have said it was not done to offend the asians.

Do you get that part? Hopefully so , so we can move on from that.

Just like when in the carnival in Spain they dress up like Egyptians, Japanese etc. There must be some Egyptian they are looking for to do it in front of.

again, no thats not the point. I said these types of displays happen all over the world and I am fine with it, encourage it and think its cool.

Spaniards do not see anything wrong with mimicking physical features because they don't see anything wrong with those features if they did they wouldn't be mimicking them.

Ok, thats fine. When you and or someone made the KKK ref. to the attire in your country-- you were trying to make a point that its ok in the spain to wear those clothes ( as it should be) .. so based on that non-racial act .... its ALSO ok to mimic other cultures.. thats fine too.

I dont condsider your explanation about wearing other cultures clothes on par with walking up to an asian on the street and making such a gesture. I am trying to find out from you.. if this is in fact something that is done in spain.

I am not lashing out at you.. I am asking you. You are the one that is lashing back.

THe comparison hits a snag when I ask you the question:

So you and or spainards walk up to asians on the street and give them the slant eye gesture?

My guess is no, but I dont know.. that is why I asked. I was hoping you would say.. either yes or no.

Your question is irrelevant because these pics and mimicking is not done at random on the streets of Spain. Again, you are taking things out of context.

It is Spanish custom to dress up as other cultures and mimick when they go abroad. It would not be acceptable to do at random on the street because it would be considered mocking.

It is only considered acceptable in this context because they are going to China and want to be Chinese...which is Spanish custom when these teams get sent abroad. Being Chinese is seen as a good thing in this context.

Well in the previous thread about this topic(which was deleted), many of the spanish and italian posters said that the slanted eye gesture is a friendly act which they frequently use with asians living in those countries. Is this true?

[LLcoleJ]

Your question is irrelevant because these pics and mimicking is not done at random on the streets of Spain. Again, you are taking things out of context.

My question is only irrelevent becuase of the mere fact that you wouldnt do it.

I was drawing a comaprison to the Spanish attire that was presented and agreed upon to be a good example. I merely made the same comparison --making it relevant to this discussion.

It is Spanish custom to dress up as other cultures and mimick when they go abroad. It would not be acceptable to do at random on the street because it would be considered mocking.

Right, and I am not knocking Spainards customs. I am pointing out this act could be considered mocking to some. As you say that is not acceptable and that is my point.

I dont know how many times I have to say this.. but I fully respect the Spainish culture and it is my belief that this was not done with bad intentions.

However, as you stated above-- things can be considered mocking and those things can be offensive to people Thats alll.

It is only considered acceptable in this context because they are going to China and want to be Chinese...which is Spanish custom when these teams get sent abroad. Being Chinese is seen as a good thing in this context.

[/quote][/quote]

So they wore Chinese attire when they went? Or just this?

I am just asking-- not attacking.

[PHANTOMPHOENIX]

Well I know many asians and they are offended. They would be offended if a person ( no matter where they are) made this gesture to them. That is where I am coming from.

You on the other hand are saying they are not offended -- based on the china-state-owned media has not shown it to them.

Who is grabbing for straws?

I guess that your friends have been alienated by the RACIST US culture.

Follow me:
Slanted eyes is a racist gesture in US. By definition, this means, than in US, people without slanted eyes are superior to the people who have slanted eyes. So everytime an Asian-Americans feel offended by that, he's implying that by having slanted-eyes they're inferior to the US people.

That's your culture, intoxicating chinese people who come to USA, so that they think that this is racist->they're inferior.

In Spain, they're not inferior by having slanted eyes. Neither does it on China. The only one's offended has been the Asian-Americans. That's the US culture, the kids mocking them on the school, the movies and tv series mocking them, making them feel inferior and ashamed of his eyes.

Racisim is all around the world -- not just in the US.

When you mock anothers apperance by definition is racist. There is a difference between mocking and mimicing to show respect.

I have said over and over that I understand where the Spaniards are coming from as far as their level on this matter and I have not onced lashed out at Spain.

I have only asked that people see where others come from. I see where Spain comes from in this and I see where Asians come from in this.

USA does not speak for the entire world and Spain does not either.

Its a bit much for you to isolate this to only US when you havent taken the pulse of asians across the world.

I am usising my expereince with my asians friends as a benchmark. These asian friends are very much true to their cutlure, food, language, history and are very much proud and still live as asian americans.

Not every Asian that is in the US -- gets some american pass on how things should be viewed I credit them for staying true to their culture.

This is my basis.

Its ok for the Spainards to have their own cultures too.. and i have said this and understand that. I am not picking sides. I just hope that we can all recognize peoples points of view.

Mimicking and mocking is not considered the same in Spain. Wanting to be another ethnic group is considered a good thing because they accept the differences.

Spaniards openly mimic people from the different areas of Spain. It is really clear when the lovable mimicking is mocking in Spain. They tend to make it VERY clear. Spaniards are not ones for subtlety.

[M.Balla]

Well in the previous thread about this topic(which was deleted), many of the spanish and italian posters said that the slanted eye gesture is a friendly act which they frequently use with asians living in those countries. Is this true?

Of course that is true. We have proved that 134698234 times. But some people can't change his mindset to understand us.

[YiOF]

Spain is just a third world country that doesn't interact with the world or understand other culture. I am sure it is perfectly ok in Spain for such gesture. I mean the Spanish people know very well that offending the Chinese means that there is a perfect excuse for a full military invasion, which Spain wouldn't stand a chance with their lance and horses. Maybe they can negotiate to settle the problem with a football(soccer) game, after all they are the Reigning European Champion. US needs to stop trying to use American standard to judge everyone, I have no idea why this even deserve it's own thread.
























oh btw, if I offended any people in any part of the world by my comments. You have to understand, I live in a very very small village, in my village these comments are perfectly acceptable. we are scared of the Spanish Cavalry with their lances, we wouldn't do anything to offend the Spainman.

[ffz2000]

I'm asian american. Kids mocked me like this in elementary school. I'm offended by this picture and I want a sincere apology.

If you're not offended by that picture thats fine. I am.

[Patty Mills]

Well in the previous thread about this topic(which was deleted), many of the spanish and italian posters said that the slanted eye gesture is a friendly act which they frequently use with asians living in those countries. Is this true?

Of course that is true. We have proved that 134698234 times. But some people can't change his mindset to understand us.

LOL are you serious, how can that be a friendly gesture anywhere. It would be like for Australians to go and hold some bottles of petrol for a promo picture for NAIDOC.

[TonyMontana]

I

I don't know if you guys know this but Americans aren't really liked anywhere. They are seen as hypocrites. Claiming to be bringing democracy around the world when in fact they are just looking out for their own interests.

That is why when they make claims of moral superiority and pick at problems around the world..the rest the world just gives them this look....

That is why having Americans ask for apology is not seen in a good light and just having them poke their noses where it doesn't belong.

Sure but the minute the big bad BEAR from the east comes tearing down your borders and bombs your homes and takes away your land the first phone call has a US area code on it.

Ya Bra.....look at Georgia, whos standing up to Russia.......... SPAIN....
Thats your porblem with some Euro trash and this isnt ment to everyone. No Balls only a sharp tounge ........ You guys need us when your getting punked but when we fight your wars for you and we get rid of the big bad wolf then were the one that are BAD.

I guess thats what happens when your considered a SUPER POWER.

[M.Balla]

YiOF, man I'm so sorry that your broke-ass can't afford a vacation on our beatiful country. Actually you would enjoy it, and you would realize how ignorant you are.

[LLcoleJ]

Well in the previous thread about this topic(which was deleted), many of the spanish and italian posters said that the slanted eye gesture is a friendly act which they frequently use with asians living in those countries. Is this true?

Of course that is true. We have proved that 134698234 times. But some people can't change his mindset to understand us.

are you reffering to me ?

[Tomato]

Well in the previous thread about this topic(which was deleted), many of the spanish and italian posters said that the slanted eye gesture is a friendly act which they frequently use with asians living in those countries. Is this true?

Of course that is true. We have proved that 134698234 times. But some people can't change his mindset to understand us.

So you're telling me if you meet an asian person you will pull your eyes back to make him feel welcome? Or if you invite an asian family to dinner at your house you will greet them at the door with the slanted eye gesture?