Hawks~~~Nuggets~~~Wolves

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eslr
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Hawks~~~Nuggets~~~Wolves 

Post#1 » by eslr » Tue Sep 23, 2008 1:17 am

Atlanta Hawks

Incoming Players

Steven Hunter
Salary: $3,862,600 Years Remaining: 2

Allen Iverson
Salary: $20,840,625 Years Remaining: 1

Outgoing Players: Zaza Pachulia, Mike Bibby
Minnesota Timberwolves

Incoming Players

Zaza Pachulia
Salary: $4,000,000 Years Remaining: 1

Linas Kleiza
Salary: $1,824,493 Years Remaining: 1

Chucky Atkins
Salary: $3,240,000 Years Remaining: 1

Outgoing Players: Jason Collins, Mike Miller

Denver Nuggets

Incoming Players

Jason Collins
Salary: $6,200,000 Years Remaining: 1

Mike Miller
Salary: $9,028,575 Years Remaining: 2

Mike Bibby
Salary: $14,983,603 Years Remaining: 1

Outgoing Players: Steven Hunter, Linas Kleiza, Allen Iverson, Chucky Atkins

Hawks: Have been inerested in AI for a while and get him for next to nothing. Since Johnson can handle the ball, shoot the three, and play solid D he is a great backcourt mate for AI.

Nuggets: Get more of a PG in Bibby and a sick scoring rotation on the wings with Melo/Miller/JR. Collins plays some minutes off the bench in the front court.

Minny: Cuts some salary and gets a good young prospect in Linas Kleiza. Zaza is an upgrade over Collins.
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Re: Hawks~~~Nuggets~~~Wolves 

Post#2 » by shrink » Tue Sep 23, 2008 1:40 am

I suppose you could say that for MIN, this deal cuts Jason Collins salary this year, and Mike Miller's next year. Mike's deal is only two years, and both in the $9's, so I see no reason they'd want to cut his salary. Perhaps if you included Brian Cardinal's extra year instead of Jason Collins expiring to become closer to justifying the salary dump -- that may be enough for me to do it, but most of my fellow wolves fans would say no pretty quickly.

shrink wrote: Mike Miller(?): I don't think he will be traded, but I'm including him here because he's the most asked about Wolf from Trade Board posters. To outsiders (and myself before the trade), Mike Miller looked like a better fit on a team that's closer to the play-offs. He has a well-polished game, he's a vet (well, 27), and he has a vet salary (two years in the $9's). However, he fits the Wolves very well for three reasons. First, McHale opined that last year in his attempt to get the team young, he perhaps made it too young, and Miller is a smart vet with BB IQ, but only 27. Second, his position flexibility (and even willingness to be a sixth man!) helps the Wolves because they don't know which youth will develop, and which will fail. Third, Mike Miller wants to be a Timberwolf! Miller grew up in South Dakota, and trips to the big city of Minneapolis to see his favorite sports teams were the high points of his youth. The Wolves need skilled players that want to live in Minneapolis.
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Re: Hawks~~~Nuggets~~~Wolves 

Post#3 » by eslr » Tue Sep 23, 2008 2:03 am

The big prize here for the Wolves is picking up Kleiza, who does a lot of the things Miller does but is much younger. Kleiza plays the 2, 3 and 4 and can easily be a 16/6 type guy right away. Much like Miller he compliments Brewer pretty well because he brings a well developed offensive arsenal. At a quarter of the price of Miller I think he is probably a better fit for the team (and Miller was starting to grumble about losing in memphis. He actually asked his agent to get him traded to Denver because Denver was showing interest and he has a strong relationship with Mark Warkentien in the nuggets FO...he is a consummate team player and probably wont come out to the media, but I can tell you that he is tired of being on losing teams)

So in addition to the cap savings they get a nice young piece to fit in with the rebuild. Zaza also will be a contributer at the C position, and is still under 25 himself.
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Re: Hawks~~~Nuggets~~~Wolves 

Post#4 » by bcortell » Tue Sep 23, 2008 2:08 am

I would think Denver declines. Bibby is not what he used to be. The talent difference is too great between AI and Mike Miller. and i'm pretty sure Denver's FO is really high on Kleiza.
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Re: Hawks~~~Nuggets~~~Wolves 

Post#5 » by deeney0 » Tue Sep 23, 2008 2:30 am

Kleiza doesn't do the things that Mike Miller does, though.
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Re: Hawks~~~Nuggets~~~Wolves 

Post#6 » by oaf549 » Tue Sep 23, 2008 3:02 am

I'd do it as a Nugget fan, I like Mike Miller a lot though.
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Re: Hawks~~~Nuggets~~~Wolves 

Post#7 » by john2jer » Tue Sep 23, 2008 3:19 pm

I like Keliza, but this is a pretty easy pass for me as a Wolves fan. The Wolves aren't really looking to cut salary, we've cut everything we've needed to except for Brian Cardinal's contract. Miller is paid what he should be, wants to be in Minnesota, and fits extremely well.

I, and I think most Wolves fans, are at a position that the trade would have to be way over the top for the Wolves to make a move. We're happy where we're at currently. Our only needs are a 3rd point guard and a defensive center. We don't need to move Miller to get that.
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Re: Hawks~~~Nuggets~~~Wolves 

Post#8 » by gswhoops » Tue Sep 23, 2008 3:24 pm

Denver gets a sweetheart deal here...Bibby and Miller would be great compliments to Melo with their ability to handle the ball but still be effective without it by stretching the court.

Minny says no pretty quickly. If they could turn Klieza into a defensive C prospect they might be interested though.
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Re: Hawks~~~Nuggets~~~Wolves 

Post#9 » by Devilzsidewalk » Tue Sep 23, 2008 4:34 pm

Kleiza might be the better scorer, but Mike Miller is the better shooter, and thats what the Wolves need. MM can shoot 40% from 3 for 8 more years, age is not an issue
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Re: Hawks~~~Nuggets~~~Wolves 

Post#10 » by Harry10 » Tue Sep 23, 2008 6:53 pm

a Big YES for the Hawks.
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Re: Hawks~~~Nuggets~~~Wolves 

Post#11 » by shrink » Tue Sep 23, 2008 7:14 pm

I'm sure I'm in the minority, but this deal is starting to grow on me for Minnesota. I posted this over on the MIN boards:

shrink wrote:Mike Miller (2 years) > Kleiza + Pachulia + Atkins + $9 mil off 2009

Collins < $6 mil TPE. (which MIN would gain after this deal),

Together ... ???

I really want to see what Mike Miller can do, but he does eat minutes that we could throw at Brewer, McCants and Carney, if we have any faith in him. Of course, it costs us wins, but is that really so important? Kleiza we could try to re-sign, or if we thought we couldn't, trade him closer to the deadline. Pachulia = Collins to me on the court, and Atkins wasn't bad last year.

Note what this makes the Kevin Love trade though:

#3 + Jaric (3 yr) + Walker (exp) + Buckner (exp)

for

#5 + Cardinal (2 yr) + Kleiza (exp) + Pachulia (exp) + Atkins (exp) + $6 mil TPE

Wow. And McHale wanted Love anyway!

I'm starting to warm to this deal. If they made it Cardinal, I'd jump in. Either way, I like the creativity though.


My three concerns are this:

1. Getting the cap space staggered like this doesn't necessarily help the Wolves (though owner Glen Taylor might like it). The Wolves still have Cardinal's two year deal sitting on the books .. their on bad contract left, that prevents an earlier move into free agency.

2. I think Kleiza would probably bolt, and the wolves do have other options. If his value can be removed to turn Collins into Cardinal, I'd probably jump, and avoid competing with other teams for FA's by moving up to 2009. Hudson + Juwon come off the books next summer already, so this would leave the Wolves under the lux far enough to go after a max deal FA. Unfortunately, the best ones are PG's, and the two big men, Bynum and Boozer, don't look like they'd be coming to MIN.

3. There's a lot of excitement over Mike Miller, and we're happy he's here, and expect more wins this season. Would wolves fans accept another year of rebuilding?
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Re: Hawks~~~Nuggets~~~Wolves 

Post#12 » by old rem » Tue Sep 23, 2008 7:27 pm

Minnesota is not in a position to be downgrading. Klieza is basically a 6th man,so they may as well just play Gomes more. They wanted Miller's perimeter game,that clearly adds to the mix.
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Re: Hawks~~~Nuggets~~~Wolves 

Post#13 » by shrink » Tue Sep 23, 2008 11:06 pm

I took a longer look at this deal, and when I worked this trade through the RealGM Trade Checker and ESPN's, and it comes up a little short financially on the ATL side. Sending out Solomon Jones contract works nicely.

However, there are bigger problems. MIN puts Mike Miller in the deal to get major cap relief, but who's going to pay it? ATL's got about $5 mil of Childress money, but would DEN go farther into the lux? I have my doubts.

If DEN and ATL wanted to compete, and MIN insisted on moving Brian Cardinal, it could shake down this way:


DEN GIVES: Iverson (exp), Hunter (2 yr), Atkins (exp)
DEN GETS: Bibby (exp), Mike Miller (2 yr), Cardinal (2 yr), Pachulia (exp)


Upgrades, to the tune of +$6.3 mil this year. A DEN poster tells me that the Nuggets aren't looking to retool and get under the lux, and the Camby trade was because Camby was done. If that;s true, this gives them two years for a better run. Next year, Bibby and Zaza expire (about the same as Iverson), to pay for Mike Miller + Cardinal for an additional year. None of these contracts run into the 2010 free agency. Zaza fills Hunter's back-up role, Bibby and Miller would add more scoring, and they keep Kleiza in this deal.

ATL GIVES: Bibby, Pachulia, Solomon Jones
ATL GETS: Iverson, Hunter


Hunter's deal is about $4 mil for two years, so that's probably fair. All the other deals are expiring, the contracts don't take ATL into the lux, and this is a fair price for Iverson.

MIN GIVES: Mike Miller (2 yr), Cardinal (2 yr)
MIN GETS: Atkins (exp), Solomon Jones (exp)


Compared to the old deal, MIN dumps Cardinal instead of Collins, but doesn't get Kleiza or Pachulia, so its all about talent for cap space. MIN clears $9.3 mil this year, and $16 mil next year, but losing out on Mike Miller costs games and maybe fans.
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Re: Hawks~~~Nuggets~~~Wolves 

Post#14 » by shrink » Tue Sep 23, 2008 11:11 pm

ATL Depth Chart

PG Allen Iverson Ronald Murray Acie Law Speedy Claxton
SG Joe Johnson Maurice Evans Thomas Gardner
SF Marvin Williams Joe Johnson Jeremy Richardson
PF Josh Smith Marvin Williams Othello Hunter
C Al Horford Stephen Hunter Randolph Morris

DEN Depth Chart

PG Mike Bibby Anthony Carter Allen Iverson
SG Mike Miller J.R. Smith Dahntay Jones Sonny Weems (jr smith may start, miller 6th man)
SF Carmelo Anthony Linas Kleiza Renaldo Balkman
PF Kenyon Martin Chris Andersen Brian Cardinal
C Nene Zaza Pachulia

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