Mike Miller 2 NY

[eitanr]

Mike Miller, Brian Cardinal, and Jason Collins
for
Stephon Marbury, Wilson Chandler, and Mardy Collins

Why for NY:
This deal does not disrupt the 2010 cap space plan while netting a competitive team in the present. Miller stretches the floor more for the Knicks.

Why for Min:
They save a boat load of money in 2009 and get back some nice prospects who can contribute. Marbury can be waived.

[CellarDoor]

If Minny decides they want to go for Bynum and believe they have a legitimate shot to do so, then this is an interesting trade. Minny would have to follow it up with a Gomes or Carney trade for a big man though.

[loserX]

Tough to believe that the Wolves would ever trade for Marbury again, and "he could be waived" suggests that Glen Taylor doesn't mind paying twenty million dollars for nothing. I very, very, very much doubt that to be the case.

Seen a lot of "Marbury could just be bought out" suggestions on this board...most owners are not so willing to flush $20M down the drain. That's a reasonable possibility for perhaps the Knicks and the Blazers, and that's about it IMHO.

[eitanr]

I think Glen Taylor would be in the driver's seat with Marbury in a buy out agreement anyhow.

He can just have Marbury sit on the end of the bench and decrease his value past this season in Minny, or Marbury could work out a buy out agreement and play in a more marketable place with a chance for the palyoffs (Miami).

Marbury would defintley request out of Minny after this deal, so Taylor wouldn't lose all 23 million.

On top of that, Minny has to look long term. They put themselves in position to go after Andrew Bynum and have a plethora of youth going forward.

[revilo]

Its not a bad deal for the Knicks at all but I think I would have to pass. Because when you break it down it comes down to Mike Miller+more salary for Wilson Chandler and while I think Mike is a nice and very underrated player, he certainly wont make us so much better that I would pass on Wilson's upside.

[shrink]

I think Glen Taylor would be in the driver's seat with Marbury in a buy out agreement anyhow.

When Marbury was in MIN the first time, he ripped the Wolves and "white Minnesota" for requiring him to sit on the bench in a suit. Young Mr. Marbury was still enraged that some schmo named "Allen Iverson" was drafted in front of him, and thought wearing a suit was ruining his "street cred" compared with Iverson. I'm sure Marbury's new tattoo of his corporate logo on the side of his head has recovered the lost street cred.

Anyway, if the teams set the policy for what a player has to wear on the sidelines, I wonder how much money Taylor could save if he required Marbury to sit on the bench in a bunny suit pajamas?

He is probably the most loathed guy to ever wear a Timberwolves jersey, so a buy-out would be required. I will add that Marbury seething in a bunny suit would sell some tickets.

[loserX]

I think Glen Taylor would be in the driver's seat with Marbury in a buy out agreement anyhow.

He can just have Marbury sit on the end of the bench and decrease his value past this season in Minny, or Marbury could work out a buy out agreement and play in a more marketable place with a chance for the palyoffs (Miami).

Marbury would defintley request out of Minny after this deal, so Taylor wouldn't lose all 23 million.

Marbury has already reportedly shot down the possibility of a reduced buyout from the Knicks, claiming he wants "all his money", and New York isn't any better a situation than the one you've described in Minny. I fear that your assertion is wishful thinking.

[shrink]

Regarding this trade specifically, let me make a few more valuable comments.

First, I want to compliment eitanr and Cellar Door's comments, because they are right on the nose. If MIN is able to move Mike Miller and Brian Cardinal for an expiring, they would be under the salary cap, and could offer a max deal in the Summer of 2009. This sounds great, because, since MIN isn't an attractive destination for FA's, competing in 2010 with so many other teams might be harder. However, the 2009 FA is mostly filled with top flight PG's, and MIN is hoping Foye's per-minute numbers will turn him into a decent PG if he can stay healthy all season. The guy that would fit perfectly is, as Cellar Door mentioned, Andrew Bynum. MIN has a big hole at center that Al Jefferson has been holding down, but a defensive guy behind him would make Al even scarier.

However, moving Mike Miller to create the cap space for the offer is a double-edged sword. Losing Miller could turn a team that may win 35 games into a 25 game team. Does that make free agents unwilling to come here, regardless of the money? I don't know. With Mike Miller, the Wolves at least have a decent player, who's skills fit, that wants to be here.

I should say that I'm in the minority of Wolves fans when I'd be willing to trade Mike Miller + Brian Cardinal for an expiring (though I'd want a center, or prospects or picks in the deal). To me, Mike Miller is well worth his deal of two years in the $9's, but if you attach Cardinal's two-year deal in the $6's, (and I expect zero production from Cardinal), Mike Miller is not worth $15 mil to a non-contending Wolves team. However, I could certainly see a contender trading out non-productive expirings for Miller + Cardinal if he gave them two years at a better chance at a ring (since they've spent the money on Year One already).

Other Wolves fans have a point, that you can't stay in rebuilding mode forever, because it creates a culture of losing. Right now, the Wolves are trying to get better, by adding youth, removing salary, and aiming for the 2010 free agency, for its big name players, and the ripple effect of all the other players that become available. These fans want to see Miller play (I do too, to be honest), and see more wins. He's still young (27), but he's enough of a vet to help the club, and his position flexibility allows him to slide around if other young Wolves develop, or flame out.

I think this is a fair deal for the Wolves, though I may be the only one tohold that opinion. It'd be more appealing if it was a three-team deal (say, with NJN)?, and MIN could turn those NYK prospects into a young center that could become a defender.

[eitanr]

LoserX,

I think Marbury's comments do not necessarily speak for his eventual actions. In all honesty the best move for him would be a buy out. His contract is expiring and if he wants to net a decent contract after this one, he'd need to be able to show case his talents and ressurect his career which he can do on a team like Heat or Warriors.

I can't imagine Marbury enjoying the situation in Minnesota, but worst comes to worst, even if he does stay, that's a large valuable expiring next season. Shrink pointed it out correctly. There are not too many contenders for a 2009 shopping spree. Here is a list of fairly young talents the Wolves could offer a large contract to next off-season:

Joe Johnson (UFA)
Rajon Rondo
Anderson Varejo
T-Mac
Rudy Gay
Brandon Roy
Andrew Bynum
Danny Granger

That list is far from shabby.

As for the Knicks....

This deal does not hurt their 2010 cap plan. At least their team could actually make a little noise from now until 2010. Who knows Miller could be aboard past that if he excels in the big apple etc. As for losing out on Chandler, a. he may not have to be added in the deal and b. the knicks even save more money in 2010 by dealing him. I also just don't see Chandler as being that productive for NY in the long haul.....that could be just me.

[RTM]

^Hey, at least he would be able to see his cousin, Telfair.

[old rem]

Tough to believe that the Wolves would ever trade for Marbury again, and "he could be waived" suggests that Glen Taylor doesn't mind paying twenty million dollars for nothing. I very, very, very much doubt that to be the case.

Seen a lot of "Marbury could just be bought out" suggestions on this board...most owners are not so willing to flush $20M down the drain. That's a reasonable possibility for perhaps the Knicks and the Blazers, and that's about it IMHO.

This is so....it would be cheaper to buy out Cardinal if that's the big deal. Unless Minny is a contender and Bynum's favorite thin in the winter is Ice fishing,it would be hard for Minny to snatch him. He's gonna be an RFA and LAL pays up when they figure it helps them win.

Miller is a real good fit,they have a balanced front 3 and Brewer moves to SG where his being wire thin is no problem. Chandler-Mardy just are not that much of a help.

[old rem]

LoserX,

I think Marbury's comments do not necessarily speak for his eventual actions. In all honesty the best move for him would be a buy out. His contract is expiring and if he wants to net a decent contract after this one, he'd need to be able to show case his talents and ressurect his career which he can do on a team like Heat or Warriors.

I can't imagine Marbury enjoying the situation in Minnesota, but worst comes to worst, even if he does stay, that's a large valuable expiring next season. Shrink pointed it out correctly. There are not too many contenders for a 2009 shopping spree. Here is a list of fairly young talents the Wolves could offer a large contract to next off-season:

Joe Johnson (UFA)
Rajon Rondo
Anderson Varejo
T-Mac
Rudy Gay
Brandon Roy
Andrew Bynum
Danny Granger

That list is far from shabby.

As for the Knicks....

This deal does not hurt their 2010 cap plan. At least their team could actually make a little noise from now until 2010. Who knows Miller could be aboard past that if he excels in the big apple etc. As for losing out on Chandler, a. he may not have to be added in the deal and b. the knicks even save more money in 2010 by dealing him. I also just don't see Chandler as being that productive for NY in the long haul.....that could be just me.

Last time I looked....T Mac and JJ were not expiring at the end of this year. The others are well established RFA's and if you look at this year's main RFA's....they didn't go anywhere.

[shrink]

Here's a nice list of 2009 and 2010 Free Agents, that's going into my "favorites" links

http://sports.espn.go.com/nba/news/stor ... ents-09-10

[Rockazoids]

Frist didn't Minn trade for Love to play next to Al.I seen a lot of posts on this board about
how MM wanted to play for Minn & how he grow liking the Wolves.

I don't think NY would trade their best young two way player.
N Y owes a protected 1st round draft pick to Utah, due before 2010 ( top 22 protected in 2009) [via Phoenix.] ,so no need to try to rush to win more & have to give up this pick.

To pay Cardinal 26 Mil (tax) for 2yrs As a NY fans we had it bad enough, please don't
make us see 2yrs of that NY has JJ fat for that job.

So no way, no how, no McCain, I mean deal.

[old rem]

Minnesota,like GSW,was a tad shy of the top 8 in the West,and like GSW is looking around and noticing that there's gonna be a battle for 8 seed this year..and beyond. The Clips look improved. Portland almost seems sure to get a playoff slot,OKC may be one player from a big surge and even the tail end Griz have some high grade young talent. You wanna be a bit careful. If you crawl up to 11 seed....dropping back a notch or two....not good. You wind up waiting for the Suns and Spurs or ? to get old and fade....so maybe 3 MORE FREAKIN' YEARS...there's a shot at being a one round playoff team.
Meanwhile.....Oh....If we decimate our below average roster we get the cap room to bid for LeBron-Bosh!!!......Bid and walk away empty handed. Great plan. You think Clev, Tor, whoever is not giving their franchise guy the MAX? Guess what...Clev + Tor were IN the playoffs. Miami can offer warm winters and strip clubs, plus some core in Wade-Beasley....NYK/NJ thinks being "The Big Apple" is a trump card.....and if a player is focused on night clubs,papparazzi,and bling....maybe,but I suspect a lot of Mega stars would rather team up with Tim Duncan than Josh Boon or Wilson Chandler.

The $6 mill a year second layer FA's, that's different,but the Superstars? Show me the money and show me a winner.

[eitanr]

Next season those aforementioned teams don't have the cap room to after a big name. Bynum specifically is an interesting target. The Wolves can get someone if they over pay for him (similar to what ATL did with Joe Johnson). Such can be the case with Bynum. I am unsure if LAL would give him the max, but Minny can take such a risk on a young talent like that.

Sometimes it really just comes down to the money....I'll take Elton Brand for the square please.

[midgman8421]

What free agents are there in 2009 that fit in with Minnesota's young team? From the looks of it, it comes down to Hedo, Boozer, and Brandon Bass. At SF, I think Minnesota would rather just keep Miller than overpay for Turkoglu, plus Miller is two years younger than Hedo.

Minnesota already has Jefferson and Love, so they don't need another PF like Bass or Boozer.

So, please tell me what free agents Minnesota would be going after in 2009? Raymond Felton, who's style of play is simliar to Randy Foye's? I don't think so.

But, if Minnesota does want to move Miller and Cardinal, the Cavs would happily send Wally and a pick back your way!