Most Overrated NHL player

[burn1down]

Since the last thread got so much attention, why not the opposite.

My vote is Avery or both of the Sedin twins.

[Griff83]

Dion Phaneuf

[RoyceDa59]

Joe Thornton. He is supposedly a top 10 talent, but the man couldn't lead a pack of dogs to a steak cook off. I've never seen a player with such size and skill shy away from the front of the net and spend most of his time on the side board. When it comes to the playoffs there isn't a worse leader in the NHL, the man has consistantly choked every year in the playoffs, with a significant drop off in goals, assists and overall effectiveness - and his teams always lose to lower seeds that are underdogs. He's just a glorified passer who puts his tail between his legs when the going gets tough.

Most overrated player in the NHL: Joe Thornton.

[burn1down]

Joe Thornton. He is supposedly a top 10 talent, but the man couldn't lead a pack of dogs to a steak cook off. I've never seen a player with such size and skill shy away from the front of the net and spend most of his time on the side board. When it comes to the playoffs there isn't a worse leader in the NHL, the man has consistantly choked every year in the playoffs, with a significant drop off in goals, assists and overall effectiveness - and his teams always lose to lower seeds that are underdogs. He's just a glorified passer who puts his tail between his legs when the going gets tough.

Most overrated player in the NHL: Joe Thornton.

That makes sense. Its hard to argue his stats, but easy to show how many times he has consistently folded when the team needed him most.

As for Dion. . .in what way are you talking about Griff?? He was voted by the players to be the hardest hitter in the league, and he has gotten 20 goals in a season already. Dont know whats overrated about that

[Celtics_Champs]

Not in the NHL anymore but Jaromir Jagr. The best was listening to NBC's coverage with mike millbury when he would go after Jagr, hah.

[Mr Swagtastic]

I would have to put my vote in for Scott Gomez right now. I mean $10 million per season for him? Thats just crazy sure he had a great year all be it being in a contract one that doesn't mean he's worth $10 million per year.

My goalie pick is Rick DiPietro the guy is signed till the 2020/2021 season if he gets hurt the Islanders on on the hook for a ton of salary

[Griff83]

Joe Thornton. He is supposedly a top 10 talent, but the man couldn't lead a pack of dogs to a steak cook off. I've never seen a player with such size and skill shy away from the front of the net and spend most of his time on the side board. When it comes to the playoffs there isn't a worse leader in the NHL, the man has consistantly choked every year in the playoffs, with a significant drop off in goals, assists and overall effectiveness - and his teams always lose to lower seeds that are underdogs. He's just a glorified passer who puts his tail between his legs when the going gets tough.

Most overrated player in the NHL: Joe Thornton.

That makes sense. Its hard to argue his stats, but easy to show how many times he has consistently folded when the team needed him most.

As for Dion. . .in what way are you talking about Griff?? He was voted by the players to be the hardest hitter in the league, and he has gotten 20 goals in a season already. Dont know whats overrated about that

He's overrated. Some people talk of him like hes in the same category as Lidstrom of elite defencemen. They look at his huge hits and goals/points and draw the conclusion that he is one of the best defencemen in the league. To be one of the Elite defencemen in the league you have to be very very good in your own end and Dion is certainly not. He makes numerous costly turnovers game after game, makes very shotty decisions with the puck when pressured in his own zone and takes some real boneheaded penalties. He is a very good defencemen, but hes not nearly as good as the hype leads someone to believe and until he majorly cleans up his own zone work, he should never come close to winning a Norris Trophy and rightfully not. Theres a few young defencemen id rather have going forward over Phaneuf.

Weber
E Johnson
Burns

[burn1down]

Joe Thornton. He is supposedly a top 10 talent, but the man couldn't lead a pack of dogs to a steak cook off. I've never seen a player with such size and skill shy away from the front of the net and spend most of his time on the side board. When it comes to the playoffs there isn't a worse leader in the NHL, the man has consistantly choked every year in the playoffs, with a significant drop off in goals, assists and overall effectiveness - and his teams always lose to lower seeds that are underdogs. He's just a glorified passer who puts his tail between his legs when the going gets tough.

Most overrated player in the NHL: Joe Thornton.

That makes sense. Its hard to argue his stats, but easy to show how many times he has consistently folded when the team needed him most.

As for Dion. . .in what way are you talking about Griff?? He was voted by the players to be the hardest hitter in the league, and he has gotten 20 goals in a season already. Dont know whats overrated about that

He's overrated. Some people talk of him like hes in the same category as Lidstrom of elite defencemen. They look at his huge hits and goals/points and draw the conclusion that he is one of the best defencemen in the league. To be one of the Elite defencemen in the league you have to be very very good in your own end and Dion is certainly not. He makes numerous costly turnovers game after game, makes very shotty decisions with the puck when pressured in his own zone and takes some real boneheaded penalties. He is a very good defencemen, but hes not nearly as good as the hype leads someone to believe and until he majorly cleans up his own zone work, he should never come close to winning a Norris Trophy and rightfully not. Theres a few young defencemen id rather have going forward over Phaneuf.

Weber
E Johnson
Burns

You make good points, and I definetly agree that Weber should be getting as much attention as Dion. . .but having said that, if you dont like Dion cause he is too offensive and doesnt play strong enough D. . then you say you would rather have Burns, your effectivly running in circles. Dion has as much offensive game as Burns, and i believe Dions hits and offense overshadow his strengths defensivly. Yes, in his overall game, his D could use the most work, but he is definetly not a defensive liability. Burns gets most of his time on the PP, and most of his production. Dion leads a really good gritty flames team in ice time, while definetly the youngest of the core. Maybe he doesnt deserve to be mentioned with Lidstrom in all circles, but i would put him there before 98.9% of the rest of the leagues D men. There are a handful of defensmen in the league that one would pick over Dion. . .i think you may be the only one to put Burns and especially EJ in that list.

I say Lidstrom, Pronger, Neidermeyer. . .maybe Weber. . .

[Griff83]

I dont like Dion Phaneuf because he is significantly worse defensively then basically any other names that is mentioned when talking about elite defencemen. Im not running in circles one bit, Burns game is much more refined, he is good offensive, very good defensively and also brings it physically. If Burns was playing on Calgary who plays a much more free flowing offensive game he would put up offensive #'s close to Phaneuf. What do u mean Burns gets most of his time on the PP? Phaneuf see's more powerplay time then Burns does. The Flames might be gritty but if you have watched them this season they certainly arent that good and ever since Dion has come onboard and logged heavy minutes there team defence has taken a nice plunge compared to what it used to be. Phaneuf heavy hits, goals and fights might be appealing to the eye, id never want that kind of player who is shaky in his own end leading my defence core.

Ever since Hamrlik left, who was a huge help to Dions' game, Phaneuf has been exposed in his own end. Im not even close to the only person who likes Erik Johnson more then Phaneuf, go over to HFboards (a real hockey site) and read how many threads people were starting in the summer before EJ got hurt basically saying they would rather have him then Phaneuf. Put Johnson in a huge hockey market in Canada and the hype would have been easily Phaneuf-esque. Burns might be less likely, but I'll take a all around solid defencemen like him over a guy in Phaneuf who DOES struggle in his own end. You can try to dismiss his defensive struggles as much as you like, but they are VERY evident to anyone who isnt wearing the Dion Phaneuf goggles.

Your post was good until you mentioned Niedermayer, he is no longer a top 5 defencemen, he has badly lost a step.

[Griff83]

Heres a interesting stats (even tho +/- isnt the best stat in the world) but when you have the amount of players ahead of him, it doesn open your eyes. Out of all the top 25 scoring defencemen in the league right now, Phaneuf has the worst plus minus so far.

[burn1down]

Heres a interesting stats (even tho +/- isnt the best stat in the world) but when you have the amount of players ahead of him, it doesn open your eyes. Out of all the top 25 scoring defencemen in the league right now, Phaneuf has the worst plus minus so far.

Thats interesting, i didnt know that. Top 25. . thats pretty bad to be at the bottom.
Having said that, his defensive partner is a hybrid. . .he plays D and forward. Vandermeer has also been hurt, so Dion has been playing with a different partner, even several different partners for most of the season so far. Add to that, the flames have a team of so many new comers, its hard to say they have hit their stride.

You brought up Hammer, he said, even as he left, that Dion was the best player he has ever played with. That has to say something.

I see where you are going though. Maybe Dion is a victom of his own hype. He is still very young though, and as mentioned, is leading a playoff team in minutes. I will give him the benifit of the doubt, and maybe the hope is based a lot on potential. . .i think every flames fan is hoping we found the next Scott Stevens. I just dont know though. He is so intimidating and hated league wide. If you were building a team from scratch, there really arent too many . . maybe 3-4. . . defensmen i would pick over him. That makes it hard to say he is overrated

[Mr Swagtastic]

Kinda agree with Griff on this one about Dion. One poll had him behind Sidney Crosby and Malkin as a player a GM wants to build a franchise with. I mean WTF no Ovechkin? Semin? Loungo? Datsyuk? Zetterberg? Vinny L? Thornton? Those are some great names I would have to think they are better to build a franchise with.

[Griff83]

Heres a interesting stats (even tho +/- isnt the best stat in the world) but when you have the amount of players ahead of him, it doesn open your eyes. Out of all the top 25 scoring defencemen in the league right now, Phaneuf has the worst plus minus so far.

Thats interesting, i didnt know that. Top 25. . thats pretty bad to be at the bottom.
Having said that, his defensive partner is a hybrid. . .he plays D and forward. Vandermeer has also been hurt, so Dion has been playing with a different partner, even several different partners for most of the season so far. Add to that, the flames have a team of so many new comers, its hard to say they have hit their stride.

You brought up Hammer, he said, even as he left, that Dion was the best player he has ever played with. That has to say something.

I see where you are going though. Maybe Dion is a victom of his own hype. He is still very young though, and as mentioned, is leading a playoff team in minutes. I will give him the benifit of the doubt, and maybe the hope is based a lot on potential. . .i think every flames fan is hoping we found the next Scott Stevens. I just dont know though. He is so intimidating and hated league wide. If you were building a team from scratch, there really arent too many . . maybe 3-4. . . defensmen i would pick over him. That makes it hard to say he is overrated

Its not that I think Phaneuf is no good I just think he is vaslty overrated at this point especially when you have people calling him the best defencemen in the NHL outside of Nik Lidstrom. Theres about 3-4 Defencemen id rather have at this point then Phaneuf (Lidtsrom, Chara, Pronger, Weber). Once Phaneuf cleans up things in his own zone then I will put him in the same category of the likes of Lidstrom, Pronger, Chara etc.

Heres a good example of my beef with Phaneuf. Just in tonights game against the Canucks, The Flames get a powerplay. Phaneuf grabs the puck behind his net and skates it up thru the neutral zone, then attempts to go thru both defencemen and do it all himself. He lose's the puck and its pushed into the corner. Instead of Phaneuf seeing that the rush is dead and skate back to blueline, he stays in the corner to try to muck it up, the puck comes loose to one of the Vancouver forwards and they go down on a three on two which one of the Calgary forwards had to play defence because Phaneuf couldnt recognize the rush was over and he should have retreated.

He has awesome natural skills (skating, shot, hands) but I really question his hockey sense.

[burn1down]

Heres a interesting stats (even tho +/- isnt the best stat in the world) but when you have the amount of players ahead of him, it doesn open your eyes. Out of all the top 25 scoring defencemen in the league right now, Phaneuf has the worst plus minus so far.

Thats interesting, i didnt know that. Top 25. . thats pretty bad to be at the bottom.
Having said that, his defensive partner is a hybrid. . .he plays D and forward. Vandermeer has also been hurt, so Dion has been playing with a different partner, even several different partners for most of the season so far. Add to that, the flames have a team of so many new comers, its hard to say they have hit their stride.

You brought up Hammer, he said, even as he left, that Dion was the best player he has ever played with. That has to say something.

I see where you are going though. Maybe Dion is a victom of his own hype. He is still very young though, and as mentioned, is leading a playoff team in minutes. I will give him the benifit of the doubt, and maybe the hope is based a lot on potential. . .i think every flames fan is hoping we found the next Scott Stevens. I just dont know though. He is so intimidating and hated league wide. If you were building a team from scratch, there really arent too many . . maybe 3-4. . . defensmen i would pick over him. That makes it hard to say he is overrated

Its not that I think Phaneuf is no good I just think he is vaslty overrated at this point especially when you have people calling him the best defencemen in the NHL outside of Nik Lidstrom. Theres about 3-4 Defencemen id rather have at this point then Phaneuf (Lidtsrom, Chara, Pronger, Weber). Once Phaneuf cleans up things in his own zone then I will put him in the same category of the likes of Lidstrom, Pronger, Chara etc.

Heres a good example of my beef with Phaneuf. Just in tonights game against the Canucks, The Flames get a powerplay. Phaneuf grabs the puck behind his net and skates it up thru the neutral zone, then attempts to go thru both defencemen and do it all himself. He lose's the puck and its pushed into the corner. Instead of Phaneuf seeing that the rush is dead and skate back to blueline, he stays in the corner to try to muck it up, the puck comes loose to one of the Vancouver forwards and they go down on a three on two which one of the Calgary forwards had to play defence because Phaneuf couldnt recognize the rush was over and he should have retreated.

He has awesome natural skills (skating, shot, hands) but I really question his hockey sense.

Watched the game, even remember what your speaking of. One aside, while mucking it up. . .he layed 2 good hits.
Anyway, to your point of joining the rush and causing an odd man rush the other way. This is a Flames issue, not a Dion issue. The team lacks a puck moving defensman big time. Last season they could not get out of thier own end. They started moving away from passing up the neutral zone, to carrying it up the nuetral zone, and the defender initiates the offense with either a shot or a dump into the corner. Dion did this the best of anyone, and it kind of became a role of sorts. This season, the flames picked up Giordano again, and he is more of a puck moving defensman. He plays point on the 2nd PP line, and is making a name for getting it in their end. Keenan has pushed Dion to initiate the offense so much, its just the way the flames are setting up. . not neccessarily a Dion fault.

Also, pinching in on the offense is exactly what made Eddie Jovo all his money. He pinches, sometimes parks right in front of the net. You will notice, the Flames PP % goes up when Cammo and another forward are at the point, with Dion in front.

I know what your saying. . .I understand you think he is good, just not as much as the media is making him out to be. I have no idea why i am still 'defending' him, as i have said i agree with you completely. I guess i am just a sick homer. One thing i will always remember, Daryl Sutter breaking down in tears on the podium when he got to draft Dion from his brothers team. That has to say something.

i kind of see Lucic coming down this road. Get crazy crazy hype in your first year or two, then have a very difficult time living up to it.

[WEFFPIM]

Kinda agree with Griff on this one about Dion. One poll had him behind Sidney Crosby and Malkin as a player a GM wants to build a franchise with. I mean WTF no Ovechkin? Semin? Loungo? Datsyuk? Zetterberg? Vinny L? Thornton? Those are some great names I would have to think they are better to build a franchise with.

That's just absurd how some GMs would take Dion Phanuef over any of those names

[Basketball Jesus]

Not in the NHL anymore but Jaromir Jagr. The best was listening to NBC's coverage with mike millbury when he would go after Jagr, hah.

That’s kind of an odd choice. In his prime, Jagr was probably one of the most dynamic players I’ve ever seen in person. By the time he got to NY and all he was doing all the time was setting up camp, waiting for the feed or the rebound, yeah maybe he was a bit overrated.

[Celtics_Champs]

Not in the NHL anymore but Jaromir Jagr. The best was listening to NBC's coverage with mike millbury when he would go after Jagr, hah.

That’s kind of an odd choice. In his prime, Jagr was probably one of the most dynamic players I’ve ever seen in person. By the time he got to NY and all he was doing all the time was setting up camp, waiting for the feed or the rebound, yeah maybe he was a bit overrated.

I never saw him in his prime, I heard he was excellent. But that is my point, when he was young he deserved all the hype. But as he got older, his ranger years stick out to me, I remember hearing how selfish he was and that he wasn't a team player, yet analysts would cream over him.

Last year with Jagr, the rangers were one of the most disappointing teams in the NHL. Jagr goes back to russia, and now the rangers are one of the top teams in the NHL.

[JaysOrRaps]

Last year with Jagr, the rangers were one of the most disappointing teams in the NHL. Jagr goes back to russia, and now the rangers are one of the top teams in the NHL.

Last year they didn't have Zherdev, Naslund, Redden etc.

[timd1218]

Not in the NHL anymore but Jaromir Jagr. The best was listening to NBC's coverage with mike millbury when he would go after Jagr, hah.

That’s kind of an odd choice. In his prime, Jagr was probably one of the most dynamic players I’ve ever seen in person. By the time he got to NY and all he was doing all the time was setting up camp, waiting for the feed or the rebound, yeah maybe he was a bit overrated.

I never saw him in his prime, I heard he was excellent. But that is my point, when he was young he deserved all the hype. But as he got older, his ranger years stick out to me, I remember hearing how selfish he was and that he wasn't a team player, yet analysts would cream over him.

Last year with Jagr, the rangers were one of the most disappointing teams in the NHL. Jagr goes back to russia, and now the rangers are one of the top teams in the NHL.

Jagr is far from overrated. Every in his career. I would love for him to be on the Pens because he can still take over a game. He is the best player in the trap years.

The Rangers had a great start but are back to leveling off. They have a suspect defense this year as well and that will hurt them again in the playoffs. Jagr had nothing to do with it last year.

[Celtics_Champs]

Last year with Jagr, the rangers were one of the most disappointing teams in the NHL. Jagr goes back to russia, and now the rangers are one of the top teams in the NHL.

Last year they didn't have Zherdev, Naslund, Redden etc.

True, but they are able to have zherdev and naslund because they got rid of Jagr's 8 million or so

Jagr is far from overrated. Every in his career. I would love for him to be on the Pens because he can still take over a game. He is the best player in the trap years.

I am not saying he was not a great player, he was. But just the fact that I mention his name, and 3 people come in to defend him like he is a hockey king makes my point that he can be a tad overrated.

The Rangers had a great start but are back to leveling off. They have a suspect defense this year as well and that will hurt them again in the playoffs. Jagr had nothing to do with it last year.

Agree to disagree. Put Rick Nash or Jarome Iginla on the rangers, or like the poster above said, a combo of naslund and zherdev, and things might have been different last season.